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My ex wayward wife --- 16 years after booting her out of my life

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GoldenR posted 9/22/2020 00:18 AM

For my history with her you can check out my bio, but in short she admitted to an ONS kafter my 2nd daughter was born. The ONS was while we were engaged. That daughter had horrific heart complications, so I stayed with her bc of that. We were on the other side of the world away from family and I needed her.

11 years later i caught her cheating again. She begged not to leave her, but again my daughter was the deciding factor. She had 2 surgeries coming up in the next 6 months, so I didn't boot her. A year of false R later and I catch her again. That was it. We were done. I put all her shit on OM's porch while she was there and didn't see her for over 2 months. Found out during those 2 months that she had cheated with different guys all through our marriage.

After I kicked her out she cleaned out our checking and savings of everything and wouldn't answer her phone. I had to ask ppl I worked with for food and gas money that first week and for about 6 weeks me and the girls ate hotdogs, sandwiches, ramen and macaroni. It sucked.

Present day...according to my daughter with the heart condition, her mom has always told her how she hates herself for what she did. How she never should have ever cheated on me. How she wishes we were still together. She is still with her AP bc she has never had anywhere else to go and she has never made enough money to live on her own. Im told she despises her AP bc he treats her like shit. Neither of our daughters will let her live with them bc she's toxic.

Since then I've not once had any kind of significant talk with her about ANYTHING. I've texted her about daughter's surgeries. That's it. When I see her in person I don't even acknowledge her.

Apparently all she does is cry thinking about how her life sucks and always will suck. Her AP thinks she has clinical depression. My daughter says she wants to talk to me in person. That she says it will help her. About 2, maybe 3 years ago, she had her deliver a hand written letter to me. I know that XWW thinks it was an apology but it was just a bunch of blameshifting, minimizing, and justifying horseshit.

I have no desire to meet with her. I'll see her anyway in January at a grandson's bday party. But I avoid her like the plague at those. Anyway she wants our meeting to be private.

I don't want to. My daughter doesn't care one way or another. My real wife says maybe I should do it to give XWW her own sense of closure. Me? I say fuck her closure. I remember so vividly those 6 weeks of hell with zero money. I think she deserves to live in her self-imposed hell.

But...my real wife is is the best person I know. Maybe I should do it?

Thoughts?

[This message edited by GoldenR at 3:22 AM, September 22nd (Tuesday)]

99problems posted 9/22/2020 00:30 AM

Man, I wouldn't do it.
You are so much further on your journey than I, and I feel downright silly giving you advice, but-
What could you possibly gain from this?
More anger, probably. Resurfacing of all those bad memories and emotions.
I fail to see what you could possibly get from it.
Your *real* wife sounds like a great person. She probably feels bad for your ex. She was never hurt the way you were by her.
I wouldn't do it.

RocketRaccoon posted 9/22/2020 00:43 AM

GR,

maybe I should just to give XWW her own sense of closure.

Nope. If anything, closure would be for you. You do not owe your XWW anything.

Your XWW has to find her own 'closure' on her own, as he caused it, so she has to 'fix' it.

But...my real wife is is the best person I know. Maybe I should do it?

Sorry, but nope. YOU would be the best person to know. YOU and your daughters will know best.

If you do decide to grant her an audience, it would only be for you to forgive for yourself. To let go of any toxicity that might be left over. This is only to be done when YOU are ready, not when someone tells/asks you to.

ramius posted 9/22/2020 00:49 AM

You earn your way into someone’s life, and you earn your way out.

Took all the money, left her two kids (one with a life threatening health issue) forcing you to live of other people’s charity to provide for those kids....

She earned her way out.

Do not pet the drama lama.

Leave her be.

AnnieOakley posted 9/22/2020 00:59 AM

You have already said your daughter does not care one way or another.

While I can appreciate your wife’s compassion—your mental health, wants, and preferences need to have the final say.

The letter was crap, I would expect the verbal version to just be more of the same...but coming out of her mouth as it sounds like she has not changed at all.

NotMyFirstRodeo posted 9/22/2020 01:17 AM

I have no advice for you but it is beautiful that you can currently speak of having a "real wife".

GoldenR posted 9/22/2020 01:41 AM

You guys are all echoing my thoughts.

I don't think I'd come out of a conversation with her damaged. I doubt it would effect me in any way at all.

NotMyFirstRodeo

I have no advice for you but it is beautiful that you can currently speak of having a "real wife".

Thanks And yeah, she's awesome. My XWW lost her shit when she found out I was seeing her. She had been living with her AP for a year and a half and somehow still thought she had a say in my life. Crazy...

Her AP tries to be my best friend when I'm around him. Which is even crazier considering our initial history.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 1:41 AM, September 22nd (Tuesday)]

Adlham posted 9/22/2020 02:45 AM

I love the "real wife" so much!

Anywho... my 2 cents, FWIW.

I would not meet privately with her out of concern she may take it as a sign to pursue you, thus making your life a living hell.

And also, fuck her closure. You don't owe her a damn thing.

Actions, meet Consequences.

The1stWife posted 9/22/2020 02:49 AM

For your own sake — no meeting with the X ever.

There is nothing she can say or do to change anything.

It sounds as though she’s looking for an opportunity to try to get back together. Or re-kindle some romance. Nope!!!

maise posted 9/22/2020 03:35 AM

Just wanted to echo others here...

Nope. If anything, closure would be for you. You do not owe your XWW anything.
Your XWW has to find her own 'closure' on her own, as he caused it, so she has to 'fix' it.
this is right along what I was thinking too, if it’s not for you for whatever reason then no, you owe her nothing. And to add, I personally never found anything decent to come out of me having a conversation with a person that has no accountability. On the flip side, I’m also happy for you that you have happiness and a much better partner in your corner.

Sceadugenga posted 9/22/2020 04:22 AM

Your XWW has to find her own 'closure' on her own, as he caused it, so she has to 'fix' it.

It's probably an attempt at reaching a personal redemption of sorts or an act of narcissistic* hoovering, or both. She might be trying to prove to herself that she still has emotional hooks in you and perhaps even guilt-trip you into forgiving her.

I'd personally stay out of it because it seems like a double bind: if you forgive her - she gets an ego stroke for manoeuvering you into forgiveness; if you don't - she gets an ego stroke for making you out to be still jaded after all those years.

* betrayal of her spouse and abandoning her kids (one with a serious health problem) plus clearing your accounts and failing to answer the phone afterwards certainly point to at least a high probability of narcissistic personality

Bigger posted 9/22/2020 06:08 AM

My biggest worry after reading your post is why she still gets to have that real estate of anger in your life?
The opposite of love isn’t anger – it’s indifference or pity.

OK – I have the advantage of time and that I don’t have any reason to be in any contact with my ex. If she asked me to meet up, I admit I would be questioning why and if I should do it. I will honestly admit I don’t know if I would agree to it or not. But I also think my emotions towards here are more based on pity than anger, and the questions about if to meet or not more based on if I really have any role or responsibility in making her feel any better. What I am certain of is that there is no way she can ever make me think I should have kept her in my life.

With that in mind then I might ask why she wants to meet. If it’s something comparable to 12 step AA amends work then I would be open for it. If fifteen minutes of your life could help another person improve… well… it’s not your responsibility but it’s something I would be open for. I would even consider having your wife there but with the predefined role of being quiet, and I would stand up and walk away the MOMENT there was any confrontation or anger.

(not so) short story that might better explain how I think about those that have transgressed on me:

Some years after my d-day I started an IT company with some friends and an investor who also acted as CEO and CFO. We developed software for a certain industry and had something unique that was getting attention. We were approached by (at that time) one of the larger developers who wanted to buy us. We trusted the investor to lead negotiations with that developer, but they panned out despite a firm offer that would have nearly tripled our investment.

Despite some big sales there was never any cash. After some investigating, I realized the investor was embezzling the company and had got his money back multiple times. When confronted he left but took with him the documentation and code for our solution. A couple of months later comparable features were offered by our biggest competitor…

The company was left in deep debt, our auditors and attorney told us suing the investor was iffy and at best a 50/50 deal where we would at best recuperate legal cost. I stepped in as CEO/CFO and negotiated the debts with our bank and we folded the company. I was left without a job and having accepted a significant amount of personal debt…

Got the highest paying job I could plus worked evenings and nights as a bouncer and bartender. Began every day by walking out of the small basement apartment I had and waiting for my ride to work (didn’t even have a vehicle for the first six months after this). Every morning I would look over the bay and see the hills where the investor had his fine home. Every morning I would think how I would deal with that scumbag if I had ten minutes in a locked room with him…

Then I had an epiphany: I realized he was causing me to start every day negatively. It was closing a year since I last saw him, and I was 100% certain he didn’t start every day thinking of me. I decided to change my thoughts towards him. Instead of hating on him I decided to look directly in the direction of his house and start the day by saying something like “Poor guy. Sold his morals, reputation and values for 50k. I pity him”

After a week of this he no longer had any real estate in my mind. Well… at best a small pigeon-hole, probably located close to strawberry-beer as things to avoid. I doubt he sensed it, but for me it was a big release.

Let’s be clear here… I didn’t “forgive” him or forget. But I refused to allow him to control me. If I had met him lost and thirsty in the desert I doubt I would have even bothered spitting in his direction…

This was something like 25 years ago.
I have had a great career since and am a leading consultant in the company I work for. Lead a team of very competent specialists and know my voice is heard in top-management. About 3-4 years ago the CEO asked me about the investor because he had applied for a managerial job and was on the short-list. Saw that we were from the same city and asked on the off chance I might know him. I told him very candidly about my experience, emphasized that there was no legal evidence I could offer but asked that if he was hired then I would not have to interact with him. He wasn’t hired…

Like I said: I haven’t forgiven him, but he no longer controls me.

DictumVeritas posted 9/22/2020 06:29 AM

GoldenR,

I believe with all my heart in the KISS [Keep It Simple Stupid] principle. She is out of your life, you owe her absolutely nothing. You don't need her to unload her baggage on you.

If you talk to her, because you are a good man, you will take aboard some of her baggage, don't do that for her. She made her bed, let her lie in it. PERIOD.

[This message edited by DictumVeritas at 9:50 AM, September 23rd (Wednesday)]

twicefooled posted 9/22/2020 08:15 AM

I say only do it if you can draw boundaries with her and stick to them. If you aren't 100% sure you can protect yourself then don't do it, you owe her nothing.

My ex husband is a lot like your ex wife. I've been away from him for going on 7 yrs now. He, too, has tried to reach out and convince me to reconcile over the years. He has never accepted help for his cheating or drug addiction (still in active using) but is still convinced that if I took him back all of it would go away (even though he was an active addict near the end of our marriage and I couldn't help him then, it won't help now either).

The latest was a few months ago - he asked if he could move into my basement to "get clean", saying he could only get clean if he had his family back under one roof. I told him, firmly, that this will never be a reality. That I'm happy to help him get into treatment and counselling (as I've always offered) but he didn't want that - he wanted me to rugsweep everything and pity him once again.

I'm sorry you are struggling. This really is shit, isn't it? Even though I'm strong enough to tell my ex where to go, it still tugs on my heartstrings because I loved this man deeply.

blahblahblahe posted 9/22/2020 08:24 AM

Golden,

The "real wife" comment resonates, I have never thought about it this way, but it IS the way I see my wife, it almost as if the XW simply isn't relevant any longer.

I am going to use this in the future....thank you for the clarity.

In response to the question about letting the XW have closure, in my experience the closure was entirely for them, you shall either need to rope-a-dope it or simply shut it down.

longsadstory1952 posted 9/22/2020 08:25 AM

I say no. Know why? Cause it’s something she wants and you don’t. Don’t ignore your own feelings so she gets to have her say whatever fucked up version she gives you.

You say she cheated your whole marriage. So what could she possibly say that will amend any of that?

Sometimes when sins are terrible it is just that the sinner suffers. You don’t need to fix that.

GoldenR posted 9/22/2020 09:00 AM

Thanks, Bigger.

As far as her taking up space in my head, it's only when one of my daughters being her up, I flash back to being penniless with 2 young girls needing me to take care of them. Idk if I'll ever be able to get rid of that.

But with everyone's help here I've decided that I'm not going to do it

Bigger posted 9/22/2020 09:06 AM

GoldenR
It’s your call and I understand your decision.
I only ask that you make it final.
That you don’t go back to it and think should I or could I.
Sometimes making decisive decisions and simply sticking to them is making life simple, and often simple is best.

barcher144 posted 9/22/2020 09:16 AM

I believe the correct answer here is OH HELL NO.

First, she's still in a relationship. She wants to start another affair, more or less.

Second, she's playing the victim.

Third, you are not responsible for her. You are not the droid that she's looking for.

Fourth, to paraphrase Don Henley: Her prison is walkin' through this world all alone

Westway posted 9/22/2020 09:17 AM

Me? I say fuck her closure.

Yep. Ignore her and let her stew in the shit soup of her own making. She's in the past. A has-been... a nobody. She abandoned her husband and was never a mom to her kids. She should have no influence whatsoever on you or your children's lives.

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