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I remember a post by Zug several months ago where veteran WSs talked about it taking 12-18 months before they felt true remorse. I thought I was really getting there, but now I don't know.

I feel like I have accepted responsibility for my disgusting behavior. I don't ever want to be like that again. I've committed to the work. IC where I am tackling hard core shit (FOO, CSA). A psych to address mental health issues. I'm working diligently on my DBT skills to address BPD. Even BH is surprised at my progress there. I have been able to keep my emotions in check much better during this SI shit storm when before I probably would have done something really bad. I read and journal and am actively trying to be a better person each and every day. Some of you will read this as arrogance. I actually have extremely low self-esteem. When I say "I can do it" and "I'm working hard" - I'm mostly trying to remind myself at how far I've come and to keep going. Someone condemned me for being my own cheerleader. WTF? Why isn't that a good thing? I'm making progress and I want to ensure that I don't stop.

Does my work not indicate remorse? The definition of remorse is deep regret or guilt for a wrong committed. The best apology is changed behavior, right?

I can admit that I am struggling with empathy for BH. Empathy is defined as the ability to understand and share the feelings of another. I am trying to learn how to handle my own overwhelming feelings - about past trauma and current - and I just don't know that I can take his on right now as well. I've seen it posted in R many times that each partner has to take control of their own healing. But if I make any kind of mention that he is lashing out at me (not physically) rather than working to heal, and that it is taking a toll on both of us, I am the devil. What am I missing??

Wha concrete work have you done? What changes in your behavior has this work brought about?

Since you won't answer this I assume the answer is yes, but are you NC with ever AP?

Do you feel guilt?

Do you feel remorse?

How do you express these feelings?

hello donewiththatlife,

I am new to all this and I need to do a lot of introspection myself so I don't know if I am a good person to give advise, nevertheless I will say what I think...

I think the key word here is "healing" vs "healed". Your Dday is still too close and you are expecting your husband to have healed already. He is still healing and he is lashing out because he is still not there... for what I have understood from some of the wiser guys here it will take some years till you both can claim the healing is done.

Maybe I am wrong ... anyhow I understand you would like things to be further/ more advanced (I know I would), unfortunately healing requires time.

[This message edited by homealone123 at 8:47 AM, December 16th (Friday)]

Remorse is truly feeling and understanding the pain that your BS is going through. Being there for him/her even when they are lashing out at you.

When I first learned that my XW might be BPD, I told my therapist. This is what he told me:

That BPDs can't emphasize with others (basically). They can do work to overcome that (mostly), but until they do, I would be on my own to heal. It could be 2 years before my XWW would be able to help me heal. Could I wait that long? Hurt that long?

It may be that at this point, you can't feel remorse.

The question for you is this: are you really going to do the work to get to a point where you can feel empathy for you H?

The question for him: Is he willing to wait that long?

No stop sign...

Honestly...your posts come across as selfish. Just because you are doing the "work"(which I doubt from your posts)...doesn't exclude you from helping him. You made the comment that you are in a marathon and he is tripping you up. How can someone trip you up on YOUR journey? Its still blame shifting.

You have NOT changed your behavior. You are still in contact with your AP. You aren't doing the work...you are doing somethings but its not the work needed. You are only posting half of your story so you are not getting appropriate feedback. You have decided that the picture you have of yourself is the truth and nothing will change your mind about it.

You have not gone NC, you minimize your spouses pain and when redirected to address your own stuff you continue to say "but we when are we going to address his behavior" and you continue to have contact with people who are not friends of the marriage. That ALL flies in the face of you being remorseful or doing the work needed to save your marriage.

[This message edited by prissy4lyfe at 9:14 AM, December 16th (Friday)]

What you've listed as "the work" could be copy/pasted from any article in the Healing Library. Remorse isn't a list of things to do to yield specific results. I've seen many people come in here doing exactly that and they fall flat on their faces.

What actual, concrete changes have occurred?

Are you NC with all APs? Have you stopped blaming your husband for your actions? Are you listening to his pain? Are you totally and completely transparent with him? Almost everything you post is all about his actions and excuses for yourself. That's not remorse. That's the blame game. Which indicates you don't have any interest or care in the actual "work" as much as you're trying to level the playing field.

Like prissy said, you're only posting partial truths. You'll give many details on all the things your husband does, but the second someone asks you very pointed questions pertaining to only yourself, you balk and commenced with one line, vague responses. That indicates lying and partial truth. That you don't want people to know the full truth because the advice and comments would change. That is not remorse.

What would your reaction be if situations were reversed?

How does that differ from what your BH is doing?

I get in print how WS and BS are each responsible for their own healing...but my H's remorse, compassion, soothing and reassurance were integral to that healing.

I guess if he weren't bending over backwards to make feel safe and taking steps to help me heal - I would've healed on my own - but as a divorced BS.

Maybe that's what that means - each are responsible for their own healing - so when a BS says - WS isn't NC and isn't acting like a safe partner - we tell them then you'll need to heal in your own - which usually means 180, detaching and getting themselves out of infidelity - without their wayward.

Is that okay with you? That your husband does the work to heal without you?

When your H asked you not to attend that party - what did you tell yourself that gave you permission to ignore that need he stated? Such a simple action that would have demonstrated compassion and empathy.

No stop sign...

Done, I do not know much about BPD, but I do know the hurt of infidelity. As a BS we have 2 choices.... survive the hurt on our own (D) or survive the hurt with the attacker (R) if your BS chose 2... he needs your compassion, empathy, complete remorse. If he wants to talk about it NEVER shut him down. He is processing and needs your support. Yes he may lash out. Wouldn't you?

I understand you are reading and doing ic and all that jazz.... but that is to heal you. Which is great!!! But you also have to humble yourself to help heal him. Make him feel loved, important and safe within the M. I fear if you do not learn this sooner rather than later he will opt for choice 1.

Just to put it out there...

Its not ALL or nothing. You working on yourself does NOT preclude or exempt you from being a responsible, remorseful wife.

You working on yourself is not a weapon against your spouse. You can do you workbook AND go NC. You can attend counseling AND end friendships with people who are friends of your marriage.

Regret= how my actions affected ME

Remorse = how my actions affected my BS

When you are in true remorse you can start to change because you never want to be the person to cause pain to your spouse again.

I'm not so sure you have either yet.

I'll be honest it may be beyond your mental health issues to feel real remorse.. and your marriage won't survive unless you change.

If you could describe the perfect marriage ( for you ) what would it be?

And what steps are you going to take to have one?

No stop sign - my WH is working on fixing the things that allowed him to cheat but he is still helping me to heal as well at the same time. He is still showing me cares about me by going NC, by doing things out of his comfort zone, being sympathetic to triggers, sending me texts and emails throughout the day, being completely transparent, etc. He still does what he can to help me heal, because if we are going to reconcile, he realizes he plays a huge part in that. I am working on myself as well, but I do need him to help. I hope this makes sense.

Like prissy said, you're only posting partial truths. You'll give many details on all the things your husband does, but the second someone asks you very pointed questions pertaining to only yourself, you balk and commenced with one line, vague responses. That indicates lying and partial truth. That you don't want people to know the full truth because the advice and comments would change. That is not remorse.

pretty much. All I see in your posts and subsequent replies tactics to keep your ass covered.

I can admit that I am struggling with empathy for BH.

that's evident in every one of your posts. If you can't or won't get to this place, then set your BS free.

The best apology is changed behavior, right?

I think the only way for you to heal you is changed behavior - as it was for my wife who very much needed to heal herself. And I need her to be the very best version of herself, but the best apology is a very real apology.

Genuine remorse for the pain my wife has caused and real empathy for my day to day process is driving our attempt at reconciliation.

My wife is brilliant and able to defend or rationalize anything, but once she realized her actions are ultimately indefensible, we made progress. It wasn't easy for her, but once that defensive wall went away our true dialogue began (which included what she needs from me).

I guess if he weren't bending over backwards to make feel safe and taking steps to help me heal - I would've healed on my own - but as a divorced BS.

This is what people miss with that quote. Yes, the BS is responsible for healing but if they're still with a remorseless WS, they're stuck and can't move on. Every time the WS is angry, defensive, brings up their flaws or their part in the M, or does something like break NC, cheat again, or breaks a boundary the BS set, the BS's healing is reset. Part of a BS's responsibility in healing is divorcing a WS who sets them back in their healing because no one can heal in an environment like that. You can't heal from a stab wound if someone keeps twisting the knife or if they keep popping open the stitches. It doesn't work.

Pre-M issues can be addressed but right now your BS still has a big, gaping wound that needs to heal first before he can run any marathons like R requires. The less you work with him and give him patience, kindness, and sympathy even when he lashes out, the longer it will take for him to ever get there and the closer he gets towards D in order to save himself.

Thank you all for taking the time to reply. You've given me a lot to think about.

Thank you all for taking the time to reply. You've given me a lot to think about.

That right there is what I'm talking about. You opened up a discussion. But now that crap gets real, you don't want to engage or answer pointed questions. Further proof of lack of remorse or real change. You won't even be open and honest with random Internet strangers that call you on your bull. Of course real life would be no different.

You have nothing to say. Which means everyone is right. You have no real defense. To which you'll reply "I can only control me.". That's deflective. It's not remorse. You're still trying to control everything.

You break my heart. All any of us want for you is for you to be real and to be healthy. But you can't see past control and level playing fields.

I have read both sides of your story. Frankly I am confused. However, what I read of your husband, he is looking for remorse. He is looking for you to say sorry. He is looking to you to cut off with your AP's. At this point, I think you need to try to walk a mile in his shoes. Imagine if you will, a scenario where he did to you what you did to him. Tell me then, should remorse be demonstrated? Should you apologize? Should you cut all contact with AP's, should you sell your home and move away from what your BH says is the number of AP's?

I come at this from experience, as I was the WH. My wife got me to walk a few hundred miles in her shoes by having a RA. I also come at this as the business partner of a man like your husband, whose wife followed the EXACT script that your BH wrote with another wrinkle, she also slept with two of her SON'S CLASSMATES. And felt totally justified. Terrible FOO issues, CSA in her background, still did not excuse the despicable behavior.

PS, your bio says that your BH has let go of his pain. Not from where most of us are standing. Ma'am, all due respect, but you are talking out your ass.

[This message edited by Been28years at 3:00 PM, December 16th (Friday)]

I guess that's one way to perceive it, Aubrie. I don't feel like it is safe here for me to be vulnerable. After some of the things that were said and theories that were thrown around on that other thread, it is hard for me to imagine that anyone will be able to have an unbiased discussion with me. He has posted his perceptions. If I post anything different, it will all be lies and minimization because everyone's mind is already made up. I am taking what you guys say to heart. I am discussing it in IC and via PM with trusted members. There's more than one way to skin a cat or one size doesn't fit all. However you want to say it.