SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

All any of us want for you is for you to be real and to be healthy.

And this is why I love SI. Some folks do project, some misunderstand, but the vast, vast majority of people are here to help each other. Help can only be had if it is wanted - all of the kind thoughts in the world will only reach a willing audience.

PS, your bio says that your BH has let go of his pain. Not from where most of us are standing. Ma'am, all due respect, but you are talking out your ass.

I wrote that awhile ago. We had several good months. But thanks for calling it to my attention in such a productive manner.

Answer one question are you abc will all 11 APs?

f I post anything different, it will all be lies and minimization because everyone's mind is already made up.

Not because of your husband. There have been gross discrepancies in your own words. He had nothing to do with it. You did that to yourself by waffling back and forth in your version of "truth". Or by shutting down completely when crap got real.

Here's the deal. When crap gets real, that's when real change can happen. Because you step off that ledge. You let go of that control.

You say "It's not safe". Try a stop sign. WS only. There's mods here. They see everything. To suggest it's "not safe" is just another excuse.

If you want to be believed, stop lying. Stop with the angenda. Stop with the slant. It's that simple.

I am NC. There is one who is sometimes where I am. I do not make eye contact. I do not speak to him. I do not acknowledge him in any way. I imagine how much it would hurt BH should I fail to do these things.

According to your husband you still have work interaction with the one you come across. Is that true?

Ugh - just lost my whole post...I'll try again - maybe less eloquently..

You might feel safer here in wayward with a stop sign. The mods keep a close eye on this forum and take quick action when the line is crossed.

It's too bad you and Dx8 didn't make an agreement to "stick to your own forums" as in promise not to read each other's posts. I wouldn't be able to do it but others have successfully and it helps to keep the parties separate - it very unfortunate that "camps" have been created it muddles things up - badly...

You may feel frustrated by Aubrie's assessment but I love this line from her:

You break my heart. All any of us want for you is for you to be real and to be healthy..

That's authentic. She truly wants that for you. I do too.

What is your side of the retirement party?

Done with that life - if you ever want a BS thought, I will give it as nicely as I can. I genuinely want to help every WS that posts without a stop sign. I just try to pretend it's my WH and I would hope that a BS would help him if he were struggling. I hope you didn't take my earlier post harshly, I was trying to help you see how you can work on yourself and still help your husband.

This is mostly for the other posters in this thread, but also for Done.

BPDs (untreated) really can't emphasize, so why should we expect Done to be remorseful/emphatetic?

If she is trying to fix herself, then good for her. Done - we will continue to point out the faults in your thinking; hopefully you can explore this in IC to help you get well. But if there is no real action (and this may not be overnight), we will call you out.

As, I said earlier though, Charlie (I won't call him dummy) may not want to/be able to wait until you are better. And we will tell him to leave if it looks like you are not getting better. OR if it is in his best interests (mental well being) to do so.

I really do hope you want to change and aren't doing this for appearances. I know I wanted my XW to change (your stories are scarily similar to my life), but eventually became apparent that she didn't want to, wouldn't or just couldn't. That's when I had to leave.

[This message edited by WornDown at 4:36 PM, December 16th (Friday)]

He has posted his perceptions. If I post anything different, it will all be lies and minimization because everyone's mind is already made up.

You might want to consider the possibility that other members doubts about you veracity have less to do with what your BH has posted and more to do with your own admitted behavior.

When someone has admittedly engaged in multiple infidelities it's not a big leap to assume that that individual might have some skewed perceptions about things. Affairs are, by their very nature, built upon lies, deception, denial, compartmentalizations and just plain ol' general dysfunction. People who engage in such behaviors can pretty reliably be expected to possess at least some combination of selfishness, narcissism, emotional immaturity, resentments (wether founded or unfounded), and again, just general ol' dysfunctional thinking. That's not an assumption that all of us have just pulled out of our collective asses. That's a recognizable fucking pattern that those of us who have been here for years have seen play out again, and again, and again, and again.

So, frankly, if your BH had never posted a word on this website I, for one (and I think I would not be alone in this) would tend to question a whole lot of anything you had to say about your relationship. Not because I would necessarily think that you were purposely lying, but rather because I would naturally and I might add reasonably assume that you had some serious emotional issues and dysfunctional thought processes. And I would make that assumption, again, based entirely on the fact that you have been engaged in a thoroughly dysfunctional behavior like infidelity.

Period. End of story.

Just to share some perspective; I am a recovering alcoholic. I've been to my share of AA meetings and when a new member comes in the door I pretty much assume that about half of what he says is most likely bullshit. Not so much because I think he's a liar, but because I know that if he's an active alcoholic then he's currently fuckin messed up in the head. Kind of comes with the territory. Doesn't mean I hate him or judge him overly harshly, I was completely fucked up in the head myself and look at me now! I'm fuckin great!

But early times? I just assume I haven't even had a chance to meet the real person underneath all that dysfunction. But maybe, just maybe, if I'm really lucky, that guy will stick around long enough and work the steps long enough that one day I will get to know the real him.

And man that can be amazing.

And I've seen the same thing happen here. Again, and again, and again and again. And I am holding out hope that you are going to be one of those agains yourself.

But you got a ways to go. And you are going to have to drop the defensiveness first. And you are going to have to take the chance on making yourself vulnerable with these people who want to help you. AA, IC, MC, this site? Thats really the only way that any of them work.

Best of luck to you.

Oh, and listen to my wife she really knows what she's talking about.

HT

Worndown

But Done is receiving treatment - so I see no harm in supporting her in her struggle to find empathy.

[This message edited by sassylee at 5:07 PM, December 16th (Friday)]

I am NC. There is one who is sometimes where I am. I do not make eye contact. I do not speak to him. I do not acknowledge him in any way. I imagine how much it would hurt BH should I fail to do these things

See Done this is why people are calling you when you post mistruths. You claim to be NC and then in the next sentence explain that you aren't really NC but that it is ok. What you are outlining is not NC. Your BS only has your word that you do those things that you say. And I am saying this to be honest not hurtful. Your word is worthless to him.

He is watching your actions and your actions Done they don't say I am sorry. They say I said I was sorry. Get over it already. They say you are making it hard for ME , not I am sorry I hurt you what do you need me to do. They say it is your fault I did these things so you can't be hurt by them.

You break my heart. All any of us want for you is for you to be real and to be healthy

.

My STBX has NPD. I know it is different to BPD but when I post to you I am trying to help you see things from your BH's perspective. I can only imagine how hard the road to recovery is going to be for him. I can't get my head around how much "work" you need to do but I believe true change is possible for you. That you can be happy and healed. But you have to change not just "do the work" and hope change happens. And if you truely want to save your marriage you need to stop thinking of yourself as the victim and your BS as the bad guy. I aim to help you by challenging you on your perceptions and half truths. I realise that must be scary for you. If it is too much for you let me know and I will stop posting on your threads.

Your BS, your daughters and you deserve for you to not just "do the work" but actually make successful healthy changes to your thinking and behaviour.

Hello, Donewiththatlife.

It's great that you have made solid attempts to work on yourself. Thank you for posting. It's been very cathartic, as there are so very, very many congruent points between your situation and were my ex and I once were. She however, made no attempt at therapy, because of equal parts low self esteem and defensiveness. I realize the courage it takes to post. Gently, realize that indeed you are missing how empathy works. It's a lot to face, and it might not ever be in your capability. My ex is brilliant but will never get to that point where she understands empathy either so you are not alone there. She is happy now with the types of relationships possible without much empathy for others.

So my point in posting is not the similarities between our situations (and believe me it is very similar), but rather regarding the point of divergence in how we handled the affair. Unlike your husband, on dday I knew we would have to divorce. Unthinkable but inevitable, like a diagnosis of terminal cancer. Terrible. Felt like death. However, we survived the divorce, and indeed now have a better relationship, solely by our prioritization of our two daughters (then 9 and 13). We managed things with them in mind, honestly the best, most shining moment in our 20 year marriage was how we handled its ending. The girls adjusted well and will be better off as a direct result of our handing things fairly and with consideration of how it would affect them. I can now say with 100% certainty that divorcing was the best thing we did for them, because we are both better parents (and ironically partners in that respect at least), than we were when we were together. Food for thought.

Best of luck,

Antlered

[This message edited by antlered at 5:52 PM, December 16th (Friday)]

Again, thank you all for reading and posting. I'm reading each of them over and over.

Several of you (on this thread and others) have called me out for my lies. That I have painted BH as a physical abuser over and over and blame him for my infidelity. I just spent the last 2 hours reading each and every one of my 380 posts and this simply is not true. In 20-25 posts I mention "emotional abuse", "verbal abuse" or manipulation/control/belittling. Two times I say abuse/abusive without the "emotional" qualifier. On 12/6 I made a post that was unintentionally misleading and corrected it. (I meant that the emotional abuse continues, but it read like the physical abuse continued as well) I talk about knowing that no matter what he did or didn't do, my behavior was disgusting. That I have to change no matter what he does. I talk about the work that I'm doing. I encourage others. I empathize with other WSs who are being emotionally abused and encourage them to focus on their work anyway. It is true. I'm having a hard time with empathy. I've allowed myself to be distracted with his behavior and my own pain. I'm working on that.

I welcome all of your constructive criticism. However, many (not all) of your posts fortune tell, mind read, make assumptions based on incomplete information. That's ok. I am learning to accept the things that I cannot change, the courage to change the things that I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. I'm chalking all this up to experience and growth. I can do this. I can grow and change. I can find my worthiness from within. I don't need your validation.

On empathy -

Most of you already know that I am an attorney. I work with drug addicts, child molesters as well as child victims of sexual abuse. I work with those who have stolen and destroyed property and people. Sometimes I feel such an overwhelming sense of compassion for these people that it hinders my work. They are so utterly broken. Many have faced demons that you and I could never dream of. I acknowledge their pain. I point out how their behavior causes more pain. I encourage them to grow and change and every once in a while, they do. I hold on to that with all that I have and continue to do what I do.

I do not lack the ability to empathize. I can even empathize for BH, but I struggle when he is at his worse and I let my pain get the best of me. I'm working on it.

I think part of the problem is that people are much more sympathetic to a BS than a WS. It's not that a BS doesn't deserve that sympathy but it almost feels like what a WS has to say doesn't hold much water. You also have the situation where many know who your BS is on SI. His story doesn't paint a rosy picture of you which is to be expected as he is coming from a position of pain.

Some of your posts seem to show that you aren't as concerned about his healing as you should be. Maybe you are off of SI. It gets tough when you come on here and people beat up on you over and over again. Some are speaking from their own pain and want nothing more than to send some your way. I do think many are "mean" in an attempt to try and help you. It's very tough to differentiate between the two sometimes. It's tough as a WS to change years and years of screwed up behavior and thinking enough to recognize which is which.

If you are truly sincere in wanting to change then I applaud your efforts. I hope you and your BS came come through this nightmare. Just try to remember when he lashes out why he is doing it. He is in a lot of pain. If you are truly sincere, I suspect you're in a lot of pain too. As WS we have to not only deal with our pain, but also with all of the external pain we caused. It's a tough road, even more difficult because we know we caused it. I hope you can find the strength to navigate it and to help yourself and your BS.

Done,

I haven't responded on any of your or your H's posts but have read most of them. And I have a lot of experience with almost everything in your story.

First of all, I've been a member here at SI for over 5 years. I've come to know quite a lot of the people who have been involved with your threads. Some of them I now know IRL as well as on the forum. And when you say "I don't need your validation," you are still missing the point. And I get it. You don't have a frame of reference for people who are not playing mind games, who don't have any agenda other than just wanting to help another person find his/her way to a healthy and authentic life. There are a couple of outliers who seem to be projecting their own stuff, but I think they've been handled by the mods. But please understand and try to believe that people here, for the most part, are not trying to hurt you and certainly aren't posting to validate or invalidate you.

We are people who have seen just about every way that a person can hurt another person through infidelity. We've seen the situations play out over and over. And while you're correct in that one size doesn't fit all, there are also certain truths that we've seen over and over.

The other thing I want to address is your post about empathy and your work. See, there is an enormous difference between feeling compassion for a group of people that you encounter in a specific situation and feeling empathy for one person in an intimate relationship. Feeling compassion for kids who are horribly abused and neglected is easy. I'm not saying it's easy to work in that, okay? It's awful and it's very difficult to be surrounded by that and seeing the worst that humans do to each other play out repeatedly. But feeling compassion for those victims is easy.

Being in an intimate, transparent relationship and having empathy for your partner is HARD. You've said that yourself. It's a totally different mental and emotional process. I'm not pointing this out to beat you over the head. I'm just asking you to read your post and understand that what you wrote has absolutely nothing to do with who and how you are in your M. It's a way for you to soothe yourself. "I'm not a bad person. I do have empathy because I work with all of this awfulness and feel compassion for those kids." But it's false comfort because it ignores the fact that you're still not a safe partner for your H. And if you're not a safe partner for your H, then you're not a safe parent for your own kids, in your current situation.

I think it would be helpful to you to stop reading your H's threads, if you can find that discipline. Let go of the outcome with him. Let him get his help and support. You've said here that you can only control you, and I know you've taken some flak for that statement. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thought process for you, if you truly understand it. "I can only control me" means you step away from the threads where you wonder what people are saying about you. Where you might be called names or have comments made about you with which you don't agree. It means you continue to do "the work" without any agenda other than becoming a safe and healthy person. That you aren't holding expectations and conditions in your mind, that doing "the work" will bring about some reciprocal behavior from your H. In other words, don't do "the work" hoping that your H will stop needing to talk about your As, or stop calling you names.

Keep posting. Keep working. Please believe that we don't want any thing other than to see you find peace and true mental and emotional health.

Your still JADE-ing.

Justifying-your behaviour by saying his behaviour distracts you and causes yours

Arguing-that you are empathetic to other people

Defending-yourself by COUNTING the number of times you mention abuse. And stating its not true

Explaining-all the things your doing to be a "good" person

You are an attorney. I do not believe you don't know what your doing. What you do professionally lends its self to following rules & procedures. So you are simply following the "rules and procedures" of R. You have not changed behavior and you have not accepted what you are doing is still wrong. People here want the best for you, him and most importantly your girls.

I hope (soon) you are able to see past your own BS but I think your BS is quickly loosing hope. He does not want to be your enemy...but right now he does need to be your adversary. Because he needs to protect himself. The work you are patting yourself in the back for isnt really work. Its you following the "rules"...and your BS knows you are a rule breaker. Your posts are not IF you do this again...its WHEN you will so this again. Because if your pointing out his behavior and he can still trip you up....so can another man.

[This message edited by prissy4lyfe at 11:13 AM, December 17th (Saturday)]

Done.

I am not so good with words but I want to give some encouragement. I think that you are on the right track. Maybe you get derailed easily or maybe you are cruising on the track right beside the right one.... but the trying does count.

I said before I don't know much about BPD so maybe this makes things harder to do something for someone else... maybe it makes it harder to get to that true remorse side... I truly hope you are able to. Maybe it has to be by putting yourself in his shoes whenever you cold shoulder him out. Maybe it will start with a simple I love you and I am truly sorry for the pain I have caused you.... say it everyday to him. Then say it everyday to yourself in the mirror. Others are right. You have damaged yourself while crushing your BS.

I truly hope for a happier post from your BS. And for a place of vulnerability and contrite from you.

Hugs