SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Have any of you read the book “Secrets of Surviving Infidelity” by Dr. Scott Haltzman? I found it to be a fascinating dive into the science/biology behind As. The book details flame addiction and explores how chemicals in our brains hijack our thoughts and drive us to boneheaded things. It’s in no way an excuse or a reason to condone/minimize the damage caused by betrayal. But, for thinking persons who have a desire to understand the how/why we allow ourselves to make devastating choices with awful consequences — this book is worth a look. Unlike many of the responses I see on this site, it examines the anatomy of affairs from both perspectives and takes extreme care not to demonize one partner or the other. It is rooted in Christian principle and pro-marriage. You will never see Dr. Haltzman condemn or condone.

I mention it, because when I discovered this site, I thought it was affiliated. Hence the reason I bristled when, on my very first post, I got jumped and essentially bullied by SOMe (not all) anonymous individuals who know nothing of who I am or the circumstances that brought me here. It’s very disheartening to know we are all here for basically the same reason. While there is a lot of anger/hurt/frustration/shame/humiliation we all carry with us as BS and WS, I don’t understand why some individuals feel the need to treat complete strangers with utter disregard. I wish this was site was less anonymous in that regard. Sometimes anonymity negates accountability. We feel emboldened to intentionally attack and hurt others w/o any regard to feelings or repercussions. Look no further than the feed on a hot button news topic, or any discussion centered around politics or religion. This is very evident on the JFO forum. As a veteran in the Behavioral Healthcare field, I’m appalled by some of the responses I see labeling and diagnosing complete strangers! Vulnerable BS’ are already hurt. They take these comments as gospel. Save the diagnosing for professionally trained and licensed counseling staff. The additional trauma caused by opinionated (perhaps well meaning) individuals is measurable.

I’ve been pretty much silent and reading posts. I also looked through the Healing Library — pretty helpful and objective. But, if you study responses here, you will see there are some who seem to “live” here. Their responses no matter the circumstances are cold, curt and damaging. It makes me wonder if they are projecting their own angst on others. They rush to label every WS as an evil, no good POS, and the advice is always anti-marriage. Get an attorney, they say. No wonder the divorce rate is what it is. I’m dumbfounded how these individuals behind a veil of anonymity and strengthened by “Internet muscles” can be so uncaring, so disconnected and bitter. I’ve worked in mental health and addictions for 20 years. I can say without a doubt that some of the responses given are every bit as damaging and traumatizing to an individual as discovery itself. I question the motives. Does it make a BS feel empowered to rip into WS? IMO, it’s like the bullied becoming the bully. We are all in vulnerable places in life. I wish people would really think before posting. Say what you mean, but don’t be mean when you say it. Oh I get the “tough love” approach. It’s very common in the world of substance use disorders. A lot of what I read here is heartfelt and helpful. But there are some, who seem to almost get off by making others miserable and hiding other humans without knowing them at all. That is sadistic. I also see plenty of flirting on these pages and wonder if some aren’t here just to take advantage of vulnerable people? Again, twisted.

Remember: there is a reason we all tied the knot with our best friend. There were very good qualities in each other. We’ve all shared a heaping spoonful of good times and bad. Together. Some of us have been through the pain of losing babies, Jobs, homes, whatever. Before you offer an opinion, do some introspection. Don’t just react and spew venom. Your situation is unique to YOU.

I would hope most are here to learn why we did what we did, own it, make changes within and work toward R. I absolutely love my BW. I devastated her. That’s an albatross I will carry around my neck until my very last breath. I’m discovering a lot about myself through IC, reading, etc.

I’ve been pretty much labeled an evil monster here, but know this: I regularly help the homeless, volunteer time/talent/resources through church and community endeavors, love my children dearly and make an effort to always be involved with them and supportive. I save lives with my work. I care for those who Society turns a blind eye toward. My family wants for nothing — other than peace and healing at the moment. I realize I foolishly risked throwing it all away for what? A few months of fake attention? Meaningless sex? What a dumbass!

I believe humans are good. As a Christian, I believe we all are sinners. And no sin is greater or lesser than another in our Creator’s eyes. A sin is a sin is a sin. Cheating and infidelity is just as much a sin as is spewing venom and hatred toward a spouse.

I messed up by not coming clean all at once. I possibly could’ve have spared us both months of angst. Somehow I thought I could weasel my way through by only confirming what was known. That was unfair and wrong. I honestly thought I was sparing my BW pain by not admitting the full extent of things. Huge error. I didn’t realize it was only contributing to her angst and made things worse as she attempted to fill in the blanks on her own. If I could havea mulligan, I absolutely would have manned up and accepted my cup of hemlock all at once rather than stretching discovery over months.

As part of the healing process, I need to learn to forgive myself. Admitting this was more than an EA on social media was a big step. A huge relief. A weight off my shoulders. I hope it helps my BW the same. I can’t imagine a more awful scenario in life than sitting down and admitting everything. Regardless of where we go from here, I hope the truth sets us both free. I love my family dearly. Those on this site who callously tell every poster to get a lawyer and get a divorce can go pound salt. I’m sorry for your misery. We all have our own unique circumstances. Get off your high horse and have some compassion for couples who are facing serious trauma. Good people are capable of doing very awful things. We are not labeled for life. So for those of you who are quick to assign labels, offer non-professional diagnoses (very slippery slope!) — I hope you find happiness and healing. Your experience is not the same as the next. None of us can possibly know the background and history of the people who come here. Save the judgment for the person in the mirror.

[This message edited by Unforgiven1OH at 9:41 AM, December 29th (Friday)]

You know, I’ve had the same thoughts about some of the armchair psychologists we have here. In the JFO forum there is a thread started by a BH whose wife had an affair many years ago for a very long duration. Almost without exception, the posts hammer at and villify his wife. I am certainly not condoning what she did by any means, but being so single minded in their pursuit of having him dump his wife is, IMO, not being helpful either.

I can relate to this as well as I have been attacked many times because I have not confessed to my BW. There are reasons behind this which I won’t rehash but suffice to say, many have hated on me for choosing this path. It may not be the right one for many, but it may be the correct one for me and my family.

Its good that you've learned the art of the stop sign U1OH. You got pummeled pretty hard before the holiday until the sign was put on your thread. I've not yet found the courage to post without my good friend the stop sign.

Thanks for sharing that, Unforgiven. I have remarked that waywards don't get support groups, etc. It's so easy to say it's all the WS fault and the WS has to do everything. But that just leads to resentment and failure in my case. I did wrong, but I still need help, and saying "no, you don't get help because you don't deserve it" just leads to failure. Who wins? Nobody.

I'm going to read that book, Thanks.

ff4152 - I think I know which post you are referencing. I can’t make sense of the persistent and vicious comments. It’s a sad reflection of the world in which we live today. I hate to sound like that old “get off my lawn” guy, but these days, there’s no empathy or compassion in the world. It’s a far cry from what I experienced growing up in the 70s and 80s. Nobody’s neighborly anymore. We keep to ourselves. When I was a kid, everybody knew everybody on my block. Families got together; held picnics; took cookies around at Christmas. We’ve become so isolated as humans. The advent of the Internet has a lot to do with it. Sure, life is made easier by shopping online, but we’re so impersonal. Nobody sends handwritten letters via snail mail. Nobody picks up a phone. We text/email/Tweet, whatever. It’s only going to get worse. Makes me feel really bad for my kids and their kids, and so on.

As WS, we all know we messed up horribly. Most of us kick our own asses daily. Eventually, we accept it’s 100% our own fault and we reap what we sow. I think reaching out for help is a sign we care. We all get beat up enough irl. This site claims to be a safe place to heal. For the most part, it is. But read through any given Post and you will quickly see several names of individuals who stir the pot and then run and hide and watch what happens. That’s so messed up. I would love to sit down over coffee with some of these folks, share my story and dare them to be so callous in person. I’m not saying their trolls, but I do question motives.

As for your situation, I won’t judge. You’re dealing with enough guilt and shame. I’m there. I will only offer this: no matter how humbling, humiliating and horrific it seems to tell the truth — it is freeing. In hindsight, I wish I would’ve confessed sooner no matter how my BW decides to process and move forward. Better yet, I wish I had communicated my feelings to by BW BEFORE any of this started. Classic coulda/woulda/shoulda. ThroughIC, I hope to learn about the how and why. It ticks me off to see the armchair psychologists offer their assessments despite having no clue. To each their own. For folkshere genuinely seeking to atone for their past, I do worry about the damage caused. I hope folks get IC to balance/contextualize some of the non-scientific opinions offered here.

It’s like some folks cut and paste:

“He/she is a douschebag, evil, felon, with no redeeming qualities. He/she will never change. He/she has always been a POS. I don’t know your circumstances, but since I’m an “expert” get an attorney ASAP and take him/her to the cleaners and be miserable and come make others miserable like me.”

Wow the level of "not getting it" is huge in this post.

You are still me,me,me

You said "as a Christian, all sin is equal" which I will agree but would you feel the same if your spouse stole a candy bar from the store or had an A getting her ass pounded by some other guy? A sin is a sin right? I am sure the hurt would be the same for you.

And then you give the "as a veteran in behavioral health" blah blah I'm the expert don't challenge me. Well guess what you are a freaking liar and a cheat so your veteran status should have told you the destruction this would cause and you did it anyway.

"Heaping spoonful of good and bad times" buddy this is the biggest shit sandwich your BS will have to eat.

You are really working hard at minimizing all of this.

And your BS should see a lawyer to have all her options known to her. Mine did. And we are still M

U1OH,

I can see your point. Some WS's and BS's pounce on new waywards, as an attempt to "help" them see their actions, break them out of the "fog" of an affair. They think they are helping, and come off way too strong. New WS's who post and share their story, are already in a state of guilt. Thankfully, it is balanced who those who welcome the new waywards, and provide support.

I believe perspective matters when folks post in JFO, they are in as state of trauma as the betrayed. The person who swore a vow to love protect, honor and cherish, did none of that. They allowed someone else in the marriage, and then lied about it.

For some BS's it is an eternal state of trauma, they can't accept someone they thought had morals and decency would do this to them. Marriage is a legal contract, you break it, you broke the law, you lose the marriage. They get divorced. They are still hurting, and have not fully healed.

As a fellow wayward, I too was a dumbass, I thought I had suffered, had both parnets die, lost a job, had a wife with depression, who could not help herself. My BW needed her husband to be strong, and in her hour of greatest need, I was weak and sought solace, in other "women". Women is in quotes, because I now feel both AP's were sociopaths, and disgusting people. Yet there I was, playing in the gutter with them. EA's/PA's, whatever made me feel better at the time. And anger issues, which I still have.

Learn to accept the good with the bad, stay here and continue to post. I still need work, and we are 3 years out.

Continue to be patient; 2-5 years is the standard timeframe for healing to begin. I know you've heard this many times, but repetition helps us to learn.

At the time of the A's, I destroyed 17 years of trust, I was not the type of guy who would do this, quote unquote, and yet I did it. My wife still reels to this day, that she so could have so misjudged my character. So did I, and my lies afterward prove I was a coward too, too scared to face my actions and their consequences. That trust is gone, replaced with a weariness of what she does not want to accept.

I messed up the initial stages of "R" with trickle truth, came clean and have been working, often not hard enough. But I will still support her, and thank her for the gift of "R" and the privilege of waking up next to her, even on bad days.

I'm glad to see you're coming back to post. You're not a monster, you're a human being who was unfaithful to their spouse, and based on the nearly 62,000 members, this is not not uncommon.

Good luck in your journey.

Dr. Jeckyll - Defensive much? You sir are a case in point. I am not minimizing anything. Believe me I get it. I own what I did. I have admitted the full truth and have had NC for 3+ months. Am I perfect? Uh, no. Have I stumbled a lot? Uh, yeah. Do I feel terrible? Absolutely. I am in IC and have been extremely remorseful. It’s a process sir. Nobody heals in a day. I’m not sure what your response accomplished other than to place yourself on a pedestal and look down upon us plebeians.

There is only one thing I will agree with you on: I am a liar and a cheat! I don’t deny that. I never said I wasn’t. But, the beauty is, by working with my IC, I can change. And sir, if you would like to have a discussion about the harm/damage caused by non-clinical opinions, I would be happy to put you in touch with any one of our clinical psychiatrists.

My BW has already discussed options with a lawyer. That was absolutely her right. She’s also in a support group IRL and seeing an IC as well. I am grateful for that. I am also grateful that she has showed tremendous grace keeping me around this long. I don’t see any me, me, me. I see a complete stranger hopping on the high horse. Keep on judging my friend. Remember what brought you here.

Matthew 7:1-5 ESV

“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."

Edited to add: Dr. Jeckyll - btw - your snide comment about my wife “getting her ass pounded” is obnoxious, vulgar and offensive. I don’t care how long you’ve been on this site, comments like that erase credibility.

[This message edited by Unforgiven1OH at 7:13 PM, December 29th (Friday)]

2timesunfaithful - I see a lot of similarities in our stories. Thanks for sharing and being understanding of differing perspectives. I don’t take issue with the BS who starts a post in the JFO — I’m just shocked at some of the advice/reactions from the folks “who’ve been around the block”.

Not sure I agree with the “fog” concept. Seems like a way to justify things. Look, we did awful things to people we love very much. Cutesy metaphors don’t make it any less selfish or wrong. I’m not in a fog. I made a series of one poor decision after another. I never saw myself as someone capable of cheating. I was raised better. As an educated man I had all the tools to avoid those poor choices at my disposal. And yet I chose my own selfish desires. When the reality of what What I did sunk in, man, I hated myself. I don’t know if she’ll ever forgive me. I’ve slowly begun to accept that reality, just as i finally have accepted that the A was 100% my fault.

I can’t change the past, but I can change today and tomorrow. Every journey of a million miles begins with a single step. I’m glad I found the courage to place on foot in front of the other. The road ahead is long and winding. I hope my BW and I can find the end...her hand in mine.

[This message edited by Unforgiven1OH at 11:27 AM, December 29th (Friday)]

You said

I can’t imagine a more awful scenario in life than sitting down and admitting everything.

Seems pretty mememe

Dr. Jeckyll,

Are you serious? That statement is simply an acknowledgement of how humbling it was to answer to all the sordid details not just to my BW but my MIL. It doesn't get any more accountable than that! I could've chosen to go on lying. I didn't. I bit the bullet, prayed for guidance and had an epiphany that I needed to clear the air for her sake and mine. Perhaps you misunderstood? To be extremely clear: i’m NOT comparing my feelings/situation to the pain my actions caused my BW. I don’t think anything I am feeling can equal the pain I’ve caused her. That was not intended as an expression of selfishness. Recall, before the holiday, I was still lying to myself and withholding the complete truth. I'm sure it was devastating to learn about the PA aspect as well. But, the truth had to come out for us to truly begin the healing process. I stopped being selfish and gave my BW the truth she deserved the whole time, but I selfishly denied. That's pretty black and white to me. The me, me, me thing to do would have been to continue living the lie and denying the truth.

[This message edited by Unforgiven1OH at 11:59 AM, December 29th (Friday)]

Since you mentioned your faith I have 2 points for you.

1. Infidelity is the only sin that allows for divorce. Not murder, theft, lies, or worshipping false gods. That is how painful adultery is.

2. I would challenge you to the Love Dare it can literally change your life.

There is a good point made here, people will always project out of their own pain. That’s not to say though, that divorce isn’t an effective way to escape infidelity, lowest pain in the long run for the BS, and good punishment for the WS. Respectfully, I don’t think all the work and sadness and shame the WS feels after an A means a damn to the BS, nor should t really. BS are and should be free to do as they please after an affai

Unforgiven 1OH,

I haven't read that book, but I have heard about it. My to-do reading list has become quite long since disclosing the A, but although I am typically an avid reader, it has been difficult for me to sit and read the way I used to as my thoughts seem to always be in motion these days. One book that I had read several years ago that I re-read with a brand new perspective after D Day was "The Five Love Languages" book. It's amazing how much something you feel like you already know quite well can seem so fresh and so poignant when one's circumstances change. Becoming a wayward spouse has been quite the paradigm shift for me...it has caused me to have to acknowledge, and work to repair, many things about me that are broken that I didn't even realize that were broken.

I'm glad you finally came clean to your wife and were honest about your PA. Truthfully, I would have bet every dollar that I own (which isn't much, but it's a lot to me) that you were lying through your teeth when you posted about your affair being just an online EA and just "kissing" the AP.

No offense intended, but it sounded like complete hogwash (and your reaction to the polygraph which could have easily exonerated you if you were indeed as innocent as you claimed didn't help with the credibility aspect) - but as I could have been completely wrong about what looked like an outright lie, I chose to give you the benefit of the doubt. That's why my post to you on your other thread focused on the betrayal aspect. Because even if you hadn't been lying, I still believe that one of the worst parts of infidelity is the deceit. It destroys the trust our spouses have freely given to us. Not that the fact that you had sex with another person doesn't hurt your wife...of course it does. But she isn't stupid; she had pretty much already figured out that you had sex with someone else (as had your MC) regardless of what you said. But on top of that betrayal you were lying to her and gaslighting her.

Maybe you believed it was to protect her (although subconsciously, there was likely a huge element of self-protection in those lies as well). But as you mentioned, not getting the whole truth from you added insult to injury. You continuing to lie was an implicit statement that you were still full of crap, that you were still not to be trusted, that you were still not a good candidate for her to consider reconciling with and/or forgiving.

Now the truth is out. I don't know you at all, Unforgiven 1 OH, but I am very proud of you. And I can sense the difference in you just from these past few days. The burden of those lies is lifted and you now have free hands to use to continue to dig in and do the work. I am a Christian as well (I have worked in ministry for years - specifically in rescue and rehabilitation of trafficking survivors) and there is much wisdom in the sage Biblical advice about freedom. Lies keep us in bondage; truth is freeing - and now you're operating in truth. It's a great initial step, as is being in IC, praying for forgiveness, and some of the other actions you have taken. of course, there's much more ahead of you, but you're on the road at least.

I received a lot of not-so-nice comments in my early SI posts (I don't think they are available under my "recent posts" any longer as they were in the summer, but maybe they're around someplace). Frankly, the ones on your thread were quite gentle in comparison to some of the ones I received! (And ooh, you should have seen some of the ones ff used to get, my goodness). And someone who reads a lot of the threads in JFO and other forums on SI too, I agree with you that there are some people on SI who have a "burn the witch; all waywards should be beheaded/hung/shot" mentality. That is absolutely true. But there are posters who are more objective and thoughtful in their approach.

But I do want to say that though some people aren't that tactful, that doesn't necessarily negate the relevance of their advice. There are some posters with whom I clashed pretty hard early on here on SI as I was, like you, pretty defensive. (Which I think is a normal reaction; people tend to get somewhat defensive when they feel attacked...but as a Christian you know the importance of vulnerability, so in order to grow you're going to have to tone the defensiveness down; I'm sure IC will help with that). But now, looking back on some of those posts, I can see a lot more merit in their words now even if I'm not enamored with their method of delivery.

SI isn't perfect, but it's one tool in your arsenal to help you and your BW get through this. It is not enough on its own. You need more, as you already know: IC, MC, prayer, jounraling, etc. But try not to throw the baby out with the bathwater here. It can be helpful to bounce ideas off of people here.

Welcome to the other side - the side of truth. Glad you're here.

U1OH,

Gently, folks here sense the defensiveness in your posts, and quoting scripture now to reinforce your point does not help your spouse, who is the person in real need at this point. You were not being a Christian during your A, so your new found appreciation of your faith seems a mechanism to make you feel better. At this point, you are newly wayward, and do have far to go, take it from folks who are still here years later. Now is the time to accept advice, even if it feels like an attack.

Let me state in regards to Matthew 7 these veteran waywards have taken the log out of their eye, and can see clearly, they have years more experience in R. Dr. Jekyll is about 4 years out, I am nearly 3 years out, so it is not spewing venom if someone with years more perspective than you, feels like you are minimizing. You should understand that if fellow waywards see someone who thinks they have "fully owned" their actions after only a few months, then you run the risk of rug sweeping. "OK, I did bad, horrible things with horrible people and I won't do it again". I promise.

Now that the truth is fully out, then digging deep and learning the whys to prevent this from ever happening again, and making your self a better person and the rebuilding of trust can start.

Take a deep breath....

Dr. Jeckyll - I’m familiar with The Love Dare and agree w/ your recommendation. I started it a few months back, but never finished. My BW needs some space and time to process the info I shared re: my PA. Perhaps when the dust settles a bit, I will give it another go — this time with a cleared conscience. And, yes, I’m aware of the Biblical stance on betrayal and divorce. I also believe in forgiveness and repentance, and the redemptive nature of humans. Hurting others isn’t natural (at least for the solid majority of us). I think there’s an unfair tendency to judge and demonize individuals. I see a lot of judgment passed, for instance, on the parenting abilities of WS’s. How can someone make such a call from an anonymous post on a website? Look, I fully support the idea of “you do the crime, you do the time” — but calling strangers bad parents and labeling this or that without knowing a darn thing about them is pretty unconscionable in my book.

A So Called Life - YES! I have read the “Five Love Languages” and highly recommend it to all. There’s a companion book called “The Five Apology Languages” that I need to look into. The former was given to us at a marriage restored retreat. It was also recommended by the MC/IC. It is a terrific read that made a huge impression on me. I almost think it should be mandatory reading for newly-engaged couples. Looking back, I wish I had discovered that book before my A. It gave me so much clarity. And I learned I wasn’t speaking my BW’s “primary love dialect.” I can only hope to someday have the chance to put theory into practice.

It’s really hard to sift through all the material out there. I have a stack of books on the table at home. It’s overwhelming. I haven’t read this much since cramming for college exams! There certainly is no lack of resources on the topic of infidelity. The challenge is to sort out the really good books from the bad. I tend to have more faith/trust in materials penned by professionally-trained therapists over John/Jane Unfaithful/Betrayed. That philosophy gets to the heart of my original post. Everyone has an opinion. If you’re not careful in how you present info, it could have the opposite effect and produce unintended consequences. I tend to trust evidence-based research rooted in science and psychology most. That’s not to say opinions can’t be helpful or valid, especially when presented in a non-combative way. Otherwise, it comes across as “parenting.” We all are carrying around enough baggage and guilt.

2times - To be clear, I don’t take umbrage with the waywards posting. Without naming names, I have noticed there are several BS on this site who seem to attack every newbie here. They also have the same hardline approach to every JFO Post.

Also, just because someone has been around a long time doesn’t make them an expert. We all work with people who have 25-30 years experience. Does that mean they work harder or know more than the fresh-faced college kid?

A forum is effective when it is viewed as a sum of its parts. The amalgamation of many different perspectives and experiences. This isn’t the Masons where the 33rd degree outranks the entered apprentice. We’re all here because of flaws and poor choices, and because we hurt the ones we loved most. I don’t care if you’re 18 or 88, we all bring unique challenges and experiences to the table. There’s no honor or glory in any of us being here. It’s not the military where with age/experience comes promotions. We’re all liars and cheats.

There are 3 types of people on here.

always D, always R, every situation is different

I will agree that everyone brings their own experience to the discussion. And there are BS that push for D always have been even when I was in your shoes.

But in regards to experience. Yes somebody with years of experience has more knowledge than somebody fresh out of college. That's why experience pays more. You couldn't do what I do until you have experienced what I have.

I will say from our brief conversation you come across to me as somebody who makes there mind up and then finds facts to support it.

JMHO

Dr. J

Dr. J - We’re way off topic here, but in the workplace I wholeheartedly disagree that just because someone is about to retire he/she has more knowledge than a recent grad. You forget Technology is ever-changing. I went to one of the best J schools in the country. They don’t even teach 75% of what I learned anymore because it’s outdated/antiquated. There are kids graduating these days who put 30-year veterans to shame. Also, just because an employee has stuck around a long time — that doesn’t necessarily mean he knows more. He’s sitting around waiting to collect a pension and cash out the 401k. In government, it’s more often “who you know” that enables one to get ahead regardless of skill set. I see it all the time.

I digress...

Again: there is no pride in being here. Who wants to be an “expert” on how to betray your spouse? I can appreciate one’s knowledge that comes from experience, but there’s no gold stars to be earned here. Let’s get real: There’s no glory in claiming the throne as King WS. LOL. I’m sorry if you feel dissed by a newbie. Not my intention. IMO we lost our right to our egos the moment we betrayed those we love.

I’m doing the best I can to learn, read, repeat. It’s a long, lonely journey of self-discovery and introspection and I’m only at the beginning. I choose to supplement IC and research with this site. It’s helpful to read others’ stories. It’s reassuring to know you aren’t alone. There’s good advice here and bad. That’s for me to discern — not to be dictated to me.

Real-life is where the real work; the real change takes place.

Also, just because someone has been around a long time doesn’t make them an expert. We all work with people who have 25-30 years experience. Does that mean they work harder or know more than the fresh-faced college kid?

These are two different things. You can be a very hard worker and not have the same skill set as someone with many years of experience. Experience does bring with it understanding that someone a few months out hasn't gotten yet. Not because they aren't working hard or intelligent, but because they just haven't gotten there. Not to say someone with experience is always right, not so. But it's worth listening to their point of view.

I agree with what Dr.J said. And this:

Unlike many of the responses I see on this site, it examines the anatomy of affairs from both perspectives and takes extreme care not to demonize one partner or the other.

You seem very concerned about how You're perceived. The things we did, the decisions we made, we deserve to be demonized. We betrayed the one we pledged our love to in the worst way one can. That makes you and me pretty shitty human beings.

But are we irredeemable? No. I know change is possible. My husband knows change is possible. We are living proof that there can be a good life and a good marriage after infidelity. Do I care if someone says my husband should divorce Me? Not at all because I am comfortable with the person I am today. And that was hard won. I hated myself for years and was stuck in a pit of self loathing. It took years and painful work to move through it. I'm not worried about what people think of me. I'm worried about living a life that I can be proud of and every day, I strive to do just that.

To me, your post comes off as defensive, selfish and like you really don't get it. Does that mean your wife should divorce you or you can't change? No. It means I think you have a lot of work to do.