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Just Found Out :
The old college flame and my wife's EA

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 MrAnudo (original poster new member #62908) posted at 4:09 PM on Friday, March 2nd, 2018

Not happy to be here folks. But have appreciated all the candid stories and advice - so I am here asking the same:

Background - my wife's college BF from 20 years ago is now visiting my town near weekly with a traveling sports team. He is single now, his last wife booted him for cheating.

My wife pops up randomly one night telling me see wants to go "see a game" and see an old college friend. Things start adding up - and I ask was this an old BF? She denies denies denies.

After 2 weeks of this BS - I go into her phone without permission. There's the texts. From him - hey do you wanna hook up for a 1 night stand, reignite stuff? She doesn't specifically answer but they start planning a night out.

After intense arguing over this - she tells me she needs to meet him to "end it" - meaning to cut off communication with him.

While this is easy to read in a sentence, with everything I had asked her not to go - she did saying that we would be better if she could get this over with.

Well she goes, comes home and is a mess. Tells me in the following days - I just can't cut him out of my life.

THEN - couple days later I rummage through her purse to find a note that she wrote (to herself) - where she is asking him how he felt about seeing her? I honestly do not think they got to a PA - I know I know - but I tested the panties she came back in as well as the extra I found in a bag in her car. Now maybe just maybe she had a third pair... but I think I tested enough to at least calm myself that intercourse didn't occur... ugh maybe a condom.

anyhoo - present day, we're a mess and the f'ing counselor is all about how emotional my wife is.... and how devastated my wife was was by me snooping.

Add to that my wife has b'tched to pretty much everyone about what a turd I am to snoop on her.

Just don't know were to go from here.

Counselor has told her that she should take as much time as she needs before "we" try to talk things out.

So now I am on the other side of the house, and she has demanded a zero talking policy.

So do I throw all her crap on the driveway and demand a NC letter?

Wait it out a little while longer (he's in town the next two weekends) and I can't track her movement once she leaves the house.

Just don't know were to go from here.

BS- 50

WW-38

OTHER GUY - 38

MARRIED 13 YEARS

DD - 23 JAN 2018 (took me a month to find this forum)

1 kiddo

[This message edited by MrAnudo at 10:11 AM, March 2nd (Friday)]

posts: 27   ·   registered: Mar. 2nd, 2018
id 8107248
doh

PricklePatch ( member #34041) posted at 4:21 PM on Friday, March 2nd, 2018

Sorry your here.

First, find out your real rights from an attorney.

STD testing, physical could have been mouth or touching.

I would call attorney s makes my excuse for next therapy appointment. Then fire the therapist.

Put gps on the car. Your wife is blameshifting and gaslighting both you and therapist.

Read healing library link in yellow box to the left.

Get a var and carry it so she doesn’t falsely accuse you of domestic violence. She seems like a good actress.

[This message edited by PricklePatch at 10:22 AM, March 2nd (Friday)]

BS Fwh

posts: 3267   ·   registered: Nov. 28th, 2011
id 8107259
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LetItBeMan09 ( member #60937) posted at 4:32 PM on Friday, March 2nd, 2018

Snooping or no snooping this is what happened:

She was planning on seeing an old college BF who wanted to hook up with her. She lied about it. You made it clear it would hurt you if she went. She chose to go anyway AND brought an extra pair or panties...

One more thing: She had to see him to “end it?” End what!? Your marriage?

She can bitch all she wants about your snooping but I wouldn’t have any if it. Wouldn’t be warranted if she wasn’t planning for a meet and f*ck with an Ex.

That would be it for me. Adios!

Sarcasm has become my best friend and we have a great time together.

posts: 151   ·   registered: Oct. 5th, 2017   ·   location: Uranus
id 8107270
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 MrAnudo (original poster new member #62908) posted at 4:37 PM on Friday, March 2nd, 2018

Any recommendations on blowing it up with friends and family? I've told no one - she's engaged old college friends (live far away) and the wives of friends we have as a couple.

posts: 27   ·   registered: Mar. 2nd, 2018
id 8107281
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Freeme ( member #31946) posted at 4:38 PM on Friday, March 2nd, 2018

There's the texts. From him - hey do you wanna hook up for a 1 night stand, reignite stuff? She doesn't specifically answer but they start planning a night out.

If your WW were innocent her reply would have been along the lines of ... I am married... not planning a night out. A note about "did you like seeing me?" Taking extra panties to say "good bye" to her old BF? Crying that she can't cut him out of her life? Blame shifting that it's all on you for snooping? So, so many red flags. You arn't crazy something wrong (EA, or PA)is going on.

Is this a marriage counselor? If so get rid of her. She is enable your WW.

When we say see a lawyer in the forum it doesn't mean getting a divorce is your only option or that we think this will end in divorce. It's just means that you should get your ducks in a row. Know what your rights are. Know what you should be doing now that will help you if it does come to divorce. Number one thing they will tell you is to not abandon the house for example.

You can either continue to investigate. Put a VAR in the car to record her conversations. Check phone records to see how often the text/talk. GPS her phone/car to see where she goes. OR

You can point blank tell her that she is welcome to have him in her life but not as your wife. That it is obvious this guy wants more than a "friend" and that it is causing you pain and damage to the marriage. She can continue to see/talk to him but not while married to you.

If you go that route be prepared to follow through. Do not give ultimatums that you aren't prepared to back up. Do not give her time to decide. She should be able to make that decision quickly.

Not more closure meetings, or phone calls. She can write a NC letter that you see and approve.

As an aside, I doubt very much this is just an EA. The torn up crying about not being able to leave him, two panties, his direct question about having sex... if it hasn't happened it will soon.

posts: 2807   ·   registered: Apr. 21st, 2011   ·   location: Washington DC
id 8107282
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chelsea9 ( member #47515) posted at 4:41 PM on Friday, March 2nd, 2018

In very broad terms this is what happened to me, although I wasn't as in the know as you. I fell for all the gaslighting about friendships and it was, of course, BS.

Intervene now, directly and firmly. If she hasn't started a PA you can prevent that or let her make her choice and you can make yours.

But a friendship with an ex is not appropriate in a M and you should step in right now and make that clear.

I just wish I had.

posts: 352   ·   registered: Apr. 13th, 2015   ·   location: UK
id 8107286
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badmemory ( member #58358) posted at 4:42 PM on Friday, March 2nd, 2018

Just don't know were to go from here.

It's really simple. You stop accepting her behavior.

You: Wife you've got two choices. Stop all contact with him, send him a no-contact letter, become completely transparent with your devices and demonstrate genuine remorse for what you did. Or, go be with him and get served divorce papers immeadiately.

If you choose the former, I will delay the D and "consider" R at some point in the future, if you convince me that you're committed to this marriage and have earned a second chance.

There's no in between. What's it going to be?

[This message edited by badmemory at 10:49 AM, March 2nd (Friday)]

posts: 423   ·   registered: Apr. 20th, 2017   ·   location: Alabama
id 8107289
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LetItBeMan09 ( member #60937) posted at 4:49 PM on Friday, March 2nd, 2018

I would screen shot the exchange about meeting to hook up and send it to everyone who she has complained to about your snooping. “This is why I was snooping”. End of story

Then I would tell the marriage counseling that you’re firing her/him. That marriage counselor sucks.

I’m really sorry you’re here but I’m glad to hear in your posts that you know you’re in the right. Don’t give in on that and continue to stand up for yourself. None of us had the perfect marriage but none of us were to blame for our WS’s A.

As long as a WS is emotional about and pining for their AP they are still in the A. Don’t waste your money on MC. Spend it on your own IC as they will have your best interest at heart.

[This message edited by LetItBeMan09 at 10:51 AM, March 2nd (Friday)]

Sarcasm has become my best friend and we have a great time together.

posts: 151   ·   registered: Oct. 5th, 2017   ·   location: Uranus
id 8107298
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Jduff ( member #41988) posted at 5:03 PM on Friday, March 2nd, 2018

Any recommendations on blowing it up with friends and family? I've told no one - she's engaged old college friends (live far away) and the wives of friends we have as a couple.

Can you get screen captures of their messages? Can you take a picture of that note? Nothing raises eyebrows of others more than showing the actual proof.

Fire the counselor. Find a therapist who is experienced with infidelity issues. THAT therapist will call out your WW.

I like this on your sig -

(took me a month to find this forum)

It took me 6 months. God, how I wished I found it sooner.

One of the best postings I found on this site is as follows -

Just Let Them Go

The end result?

The end result is to respect yourself in the end, let go of the people that don't value you or respect you.

That is the end result.

The quickest way to get a cheating spouse back is to let them go with a smile on your face wishing them the best in life and hoping that everything works out in their relationship with their affair partner.

Seriously, the quickest way to get them back.

Nothing else works better or quicker.

Let them go.

Agree with them and their feelings,

"you should be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy, good bye"

Wouldn't that be true love?

If you really loved your spouse, and wanted them to have what they really want in life which is the other person they're in love with, wouldn't letting them go be the approach if you really love them?

Why focus on the affair or the drama associated with it?

Just let them go. Give them their freedom.

You can take a good hard look at yourself in the mirror everyday and improve yourself but do it for you, not for someone else, the changes will never stick when it's done for someone else, do it for your benefit and you will probably make those changes last much longer if not indefinitely - because it's for your benefit and you realize the importance and value in that benefit because YOU are involved.

I will never tell someone to change to entice a WAW back when she's been cheating on him. I don't care how bad a marriage, there is never an excuse for cheating. That is a personal decision that someone makes to cheat on their spouse. If a marriage is really bad, leave, get a divorce, speak up to your spouse and tell them flat out "this marriage sucks and if things don't change I'm going to leave you and find someone better" and if things don't improve, leave that person.

But cheating, no excuses.

Think about cheating.

A wayward spouse who cheats on their spouse goes behind their back, secretly, telling lies, feeling guilty, getting angry at their spouse for getting in the way of their fantasies but never owning up to their actions, never admitting what they're doing. If a person who cheats on their spouse felt justified in their actions, why hide and go behind their spouses backs when they start cheating, why lie, why make up excuses about late nights at work and going to a friends place and sleeping over because they drank too much and any other such nonsense?

Deep down, the cheating spouse knows there is something inherently wrong with their actions otherwise they wouldn't lie about their actions and hide what they're doing.

Fighting the affair? For what reason?

To compete with the OM or OW for your spouse?

What message does that communicate to your wayward spouse?

They have lots of value and you have none because now you have to compete with another person for their love? Competing with your wayward spouse's affair partner never works, it just prolongs an ugly drama filled process.

The easiest way to show you will not tolerate cheating in your relationship is to let that person go. That is the easiest and most effective way to show this.

"Look wife/husband, I won't be in an open relationship with you, I won't give you X number of days, weeks, months to make your mind, if you really feel like you need to sit on the fence on this decision and can't decide between your affair partner and me well I will make the decision for you, you can be with them because I'm no longer an option. I love you and wish you a good life with them and hope it works out for you because it didn't work out for us. Now the best thing we can do for each other is to make this process as graceful and peaceful as possible for us and our children, I'll contact a lawyer/mediator and get started on the process of our legal separation/divorce."

You give them what they want.

You don't fight them on this issue.

You agree with their feelings,

they want to be with the other person, fine they should be with the other person, let them be with the other person.

You will never convince a person to change their feelings with your arguments and logic. You can not find one member on this website in a situation where they are dealing with infidelity where they got their spouse to change their mind about how they feel about their affair partner.

You can't say "don't love them, love me instead",

you can't say "look at me, I'm better in every way compared to your affair partner, pick me instead of them",

you can't say "you took marriage vows, you promised to love me"

I agree, you don't have to make it easy for your wayward spouse to have an affair, but when you let them go, "lovingly detach", you don't have to worry about making it easy for them. It's no longer your concern, they can have you or them but not both and not at the same time and since they've chosen to have an affair, they've made their choice, there is no profit in fighting that decision. Let them go and move on with your life, that is the quickest, easiest way to get them back.

You definitely don't support them financially and enable them, that would be weak, wussy, clingy, insecure behavior - something in you telling you that you need to support them financially while they're having an affair, hoping they'll realize how nice you are and come back to you.

Just let them go, have them move out or you move out and live a good life without them.

In my situation, I didn't want her back. I choose D, then met someone WAY better.

The grass is always greener.... where the dogs are shitting.

-Soundgarden

posts: 2432   ·   registered: Jan. 9th, 2014   ·   location: Southwest
id 8107312
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 MrAnudo (original poster new member #62908) posted at 5:08 PM on Friday, March 2nd, 2018

Yes, I have screen caps and picture copies of her note. Made my call to a family lawyer - running out at lunch. Ironically, our current couples counselor hang a shingle out espousing the a popular couples "method". Nothing so far has swung my way at all - except unending pain

posts: 27   ·   registered: Mar. 2nd, 2018
id 8107319
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beenthereinco ( member #56409) posted at 5:12 PM on Friday, March 2nd, 2018

but I tested the panties she came back in as well as the extra I found in a bag in her car.

Is this a thing? Carrying extra panties around in a bag in your car? I've not known anyone to do this on the regular. It seems to me that this alone speaks to intent if not action.

posts: 1429   ·   registered: Dec. 13th, 2016
id 8107326
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 MrAnudo (original poster new member #62908) posted at 5:19 PM on Friday, March 2nd, 2018

I'm not defending honest - but she went to work, changed... then went to see him. And I know it sounds weird but I swear to god (and maybe the gals here can chime in) but she changes panties like 4 times a day since I've known her and encourages my daughter to do the same.

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id 8107334
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 MrAnudo (original poster new member #62908) posted at 5:32 PM on Friday, March 2nd, 2018

Hmmm - so just a note, check your state first - seems mine has very strict stalking laws when it comes to VARs and GPSs. I don't think that's where I need to tread.

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 MrAnudo (original poster new member #62908) posted at 5:32 PM on Friday, March 2nd, 2018

Hmmm - so just a note, check your state first - seems mine has very strict stalking laws when it comes to VARs and GPSs. I don't think that's where I need to tread.

posts: 27   ·   registered: Mar. 2nd, 2018
id 8107357
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oldtruck ( member #62540) posted at 5:33 PM on Friday, March 2nd, 2018

Not normal to change panties 4 times a day.

Fire this counselor, she is just an enabler for

your WW's affair.

Hide a VAR in your WW's car and in the house where

she takes most of her phones calls.

Also activate her cells GPS and hide a real time

GPS in WW's car. You will get your proof.

Classic blame shifting on your snooping instead of

her inappropriate behavior.

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Marz ( member #60895) posted at 5:42 PM on Friday, March 2nd, 2018

“I must have the privacy to cheat” in my marriage?

Really? It’s cheater script man.

It’s all bullshit.

If you do fall for all the lies and gaslighting you are in for an extended stay in limbo hell.

[This message edited by Marz at 12:52 PM, March 2nd (Friday)]

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id 8107365
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 MrAnudo (original poster new member #62908) posted at 5:50 PM on Friday, March 2nd, 2018

I may have lost folks here. I already know she’s having an emotional affair. I have the texts and her hand written notes to prove that already.

Since I am in a no-fault state - her engaging in a physical relationship (which to me now is a relevant) she’s already crossed the line with the emotional. I was just too weak to act on it.

I’m not sure what’s to be gained by gathering even more proof I have all the proof I need. She just refuses to acknowledge it. You all have enboldened me to finally take stronger action rather than submit to the wishes of this counselor

[This message edited by MrAnudo at 11:53 AM, March 2nd (Friday)]

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id 8107376
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woundedbear ( member #52257) posted at 6:00 PM on Friday, March 2nd, 2018

As you already know, old flames and mid life are big trouble. New rule in our home (post A): For anything other than business, meals and meetings between either of us, and a person of the opposite sex is off limits. If I have to meet with women for business for a meal or after work hours, she knows in advance and I talk about the meeting afterward (I am the BS). Phones logs, texts and emails are open for either of us. There are no secrets. Just like there is no crying in baseball, there are no secrets in a marriage. I caught my fWW in a text to a friend about her "other friend" who turned out to be an old HS BF, she was neck deep in limerence. (look that up, it may explain her actions).

If she wants to see this old flame, she can see him with you present or not at all.

Me BS (57)FWW (57)DDay 3/10/2015 Married 35 years, together 39 2 kids, both grown.

posts: 282   ·   registered: Mar. 14th, 2016   ·   location: Midwest
id 8107386
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tikismom ( member #60546) posted at 6:02 PM on Friday, March 2nd, 2018

I guess it depends what you want out of the relationship. Are you hoping to R? If so, don't you want to know all info so you know what you are dealing with? Or do you want to D & don't care about the details?

Me: 39
Him: 43 (NPD)
DDay #1: Sept 2017; Lots of TT & DDays since. EA & PA with an EX. Last known contact with OW: end of December 2017.
Married 10 years, together 15 at time of dday. 2 very young children.
Status: Working daily toward R.

posts: 469   ·   registered: Sep. 8th, 2017
id 8107389
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Stevesn ( member #58312) posted at 6:02 PM on Friday, March 2nd, 2018

MrA

With a spouse who shows no remorse for what she has done and continues the A you should work to take control and get out of her infidelity.

You should start a list of steps you think you need to take to move forward with your life.

I’ll list below some I’ve collected from various SI threads for you to use to start that list. SI members always say take what you need and leave the rest.

It’s awful for people to treat someone they have vowed to love honor cherish and protect so callously. Until she realizes and really shows remorse for the pain she has caused you there is really nothing you can do or say to make her wake up from this terrible path. Just focus on you.

Good luck.

——————

Here are the types of things you should be doing If you have a WW who is still in the A (EA or PA) and is not remorseful at all. Perhaps some of these actions will shake her out of her current thinking, but there are never any guarantees. Take these steps to help you get control back in your life.

1) you should get a lawyer. Call tomorrow. Go interview a couple next week. When you settle on one find out your options. Tell them to draft D papers to be served at your notice

2) get in IC. If you are not already find one that specializes in infidelity

3) open your own bank account at another bank. Move half your joint money to it.

4) Contact the OBS. Don't tell WS you are going to talk to the OBS. It's none of their freakin business. You need to coordinate with OBS so you both know what is going on.

5) full on implementation of the 180 (read it in the Healing Library). Until she gets her head out of her ass you don't need to talk to her about anything but finances and kids (if you have kids). Again... SHE IS NOT YET REMORSEFUL so there is no reason to talk to her about anything else. If she is still in love with him and talking to him there is no way R can work so stick to the basics. Besides the 180 is not to get your WS back, it's to show yourself you can stand up and be strong without her.

One wise SI poster said it this way: You stop asking her whereabouts. You stop talking to her about the affair, past details or current. You stop yelling, fighting, begging, imploring. You're not critical or judgmental. You stop saying I love you, you don't hug or allow yourself to be hugged (just politely say "no thank you"). You don't give gifts, schedule dates, tell her you miss her, tell her she's cute, etc. You don't do any of that. Again -- you're not mean! You are cheerful, outgoing, independent.

No matter what you're feeling inside, *this* is the you that you allow your spouse to see. The cheerful, outgoing, independent, happy you.

6) STD TESTING. Did you get that done yet? If you know it was a PA make sure you are healthy and no sex with her until she proves he is healthy and NC.

7) Expose to close friends and family. You need support in this difficult time. Don't sell your close relationships short. You'd help them if they'd ask so give them the chance. "My WS has fallen in love with someone else. Whether we R or D i hope I can count on you to be there when things get tough for us"

8) tell her to leave. That she can go be with the OM if that is what makes her happy. Kick her out if that is what it takes. You don't want to be with her if she is going to be pining away for someone else

fBBF. Just before proposing, broke it off after her 2nd confirmed PA in 2 yrs. 9 mo later I met the wonderful woman I have spent the next 30 years with.

posts: 3691   ·   registered: Apr. 17th, 2017
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