SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

For those dealing with a recent betrayal, you might get a lot of the familiar word-vomits from your betraying wayward. Those might include the "I love you but I am not in love with you," "I don't remember," and my favorite "I did not mean to hurt you. YOU WERE JUST COLLATERAL DAMAGE."

So as you are processing just how much of the suck you can endure and hopefully finding ways to protect yourself and your kids from the on-going shitstorm, maybe these words will help you find reason to get up, get back on your feet, and start using your anger to help you heal. (Yes, anger can be a powerful motivator to help you start taking control of your shattered life!)

When your wayward talks about collateral damage, they probably meant it. It might be one of the few honest things they will tell you. However, "you were just collateral damage" could be read as "I really did not give a shit about you, our marriage, our children, or anything else so I could get validation/sex from some strange."

There is a saying that goes around SI and it something like "The opposite of love is indifference." The analog for "indifference" of "making you collateral damage" is pretty solid.

So if you are clinging to the notion that they really do love you and have your best interest at heart so you shouldn't do anything that might in the least bit upset them, like setting boundaries and insisting they stop engaging in an affair - read these words carefully. They really do not. Making you collateral damage is as close to the exact opposite of love as you can get. And you should not base your decision on whether you will lose that "love" because it is already lost.

Now, that is not to say that at sometime in the future, the wayward can't fix his or her shit and learn to love somebody in a real and tangible way. But for your sake - find some way to respect yourself more than they did/do so you can move forward with or without them eventually fixing their mess.

Because waiting around, clinging to the notion that you are going to lose their love if you stand up for yourself is likely only going to bring more hurt to you.

Strength and blessings to you.

Great post and I agree with you 100%

It's why I make myself #1 now

Excellent post. The sooner we betrayed spouses reach the understanding that the cheaters are indifferent to our pain, the sooner we can heal. I know I struggled with this a lot - he was saying he loved me. But was he acting like it, or was he acting indifferent? Only with time could I see it was the latter. He just didn’t care.

I agree with this.

There was a recent post about whether a WS loves their spouse when they have an affair. We don't. We love ourselves. When I admitted to the collateral damage concept on that thread, people thought I was trying to say "I didn't mean to hurt" my husband. That's not what I was trying to say at all. What I was trying to say was much worse - he wasn't even considered really. I was getting this chastising of "of course you knew it would hurt him". I kept saying...GUYS what I am telling you is WORSE. I didn't care. I was only focused on what I wanted.

This is what we are like during the affair and even for the time period shortly after the affair. That doesn't mean that we can't become reconciliation material or that can't be a choice if that is what is desired, but don't be in a rush. Watch and wait. This is not a person you do a pick me dance for.

"I'm hiking out, a WS, and I approve this message". This ad was not sponsored by a political party.

Thanks for this!

There is a saying that goes around SI and it something like "The opposite of love is indifference." The analog for "indifference" of "making you collateral damage" is pretty solid.

Yes, that analog is pretty solid IMO.

WH insists he always "loved" me all during the A. From my view, (a) "what kind of man loves like this" and (b) your kind of "love" has caused me PTSD, and more pain that I thought it was possible to endure, your "love" HURTS ME, and (c) you may have thought you loved me (and I'm confident he did), but your concept of "love" is f'd up.... Love does NOT include lying, cheating, or a "risk analysis" that never included a thought about the damage he'd do to me/family, so saying "I always loved you even during the PA" is hurtful and insulting to me (or anyone who feels love includes even thinking of the other person before choosing to engage in such horrifying behavior. )

I wonder if this concept would help other WS's understand why some BS's don't ever want to hear how much their WS "loved" them during the A. (I know some BSs are fine with the ILY during the A - I'm not in that camp).

[This message edited by gmc94 at 1:09 PM, November 2nd, 2018 (Friday)]

Because waiting around, clinging to the notion that you are going to lose their love if you stand up for yourself is likely only going to bring more hurt to you.

Don't get me wrong, as I see betrayal as a near 100% deal breaker (but not totally).

I have always felt that if 2 people truly fall in love, those reasons pretty much stay forever. Due to laziness, addictions... they quit and betrayals happen. If they can deal with the betrayal and seek out those things that brought them together in the first place, then there is hope.

There was a recent post about whether a WS loves their spouse when they have an affair. We don't. We love ourselves. When I admitted to the collateral damage concept on that thread, people thought I was trying to say "I didn't mean to hurt" my husband. That's not what I was trying to say at all. What I was trying to say was much worse - he wasn't even considered really. I was getting this chastising of "of course you knew it would hurt him". I kept saying...GUYS what I am telling you is WORSE. I didn't care. I was only focused on what I wanted.

Hikingout, thank you. That's brave of you to admit and most won't, but I think it's pretty universally true. It definitely was for my WH and it took a long time for him to admit it to himself and to me. He could admit it for the drug addiction, but the cheating was harder for him to come to terms with.

I was absolutely collateral damage and I still maintain that it would have hurt less if he had acted out of hatred or anger towards me than him just not giving a damn.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 4:08 PM, November 2nd (Friday)]

Yes, there is a strong sense in which my WW was indifferent to me and the pain I experience is "collateral damage." But I didn't drop off her radar screen entirely.

I discovered and printed out her yearlong email correspondence with the AP. And at certain points she not only compares the two of us and tells him she has more in common with him than she has with me, but she also denigrates and complains about me to him.

This served two functions. First, it helped justify in her own mind that she was doing nothing wrong. She bore no guilt. If there was any fault for the affair, it was all on me. Second, it served to get him to love and want her more.

At one point in "Not 'Just Friends'", Shirley Glass writes, “When people confide to opposite-sex friends about problems in their marriage, they are revealing a weak spot and signaling their availability at the same time.” So, telling the AP she had more in common with him than she had with me, and denigrating me to him, allowed her to both assuage any feelings of guilt and induce the AP to come on to her more strongly.

My point is that a WS can, at the same time, be indifferent to the welfare of the BS, but not entirely forget about him or her. My WW was indifferent to my well being, but entirely cognizant of me when it came to easing her conscience and ridiculing me to her AP in order to signal her availability for a deeper, more intimate relationship with him.

SeventyFour

Did you divorce her ?

Part of me would have loved to read all my wife's emails detailing her comparing him to me. It would help me end the marriage or perhaps make peace with the damage.

PlanetSaturn29,

Some quick background: We're old. D-day occurred after 45 years of a reasonably good marriage with an unexceptional amount of marital turbulence. AP was a former high school boyfriend of my W. Correspondence between them began with inquiries about their forthcoming 50th HS reunion in another state. WW attended the reunion without me and met up there with AP. After the reunion correspondence continued for an additional six months until her increasing coldness, distance, and detachment induced me to break into her email and discover the A. The trajectory of the correspondence was increasingly intimate.

No D yet. If her A with high school sweetheart had occurred earlier in the marriage I would have immediately sought D. But we are now much older and geographically and emotionally close to our adult children and grandchildren. Neither of us wants to mess up family relations. So this may serve as glue allowing us to stay together long enough for R to develop.

We are now working toward R with numerous ups and downs. We have some hope that continued work on both our parts together with the passage of time will eventually lead from where we are now -- moderately peaceful co-existence -- to genuine R.

By the way, discovery of a year's worth of email correspondence is both a blessing and a curse. The upside is that I have incontrovertible proof of her betrayal together with clear confirmation that the AP is a manipulative asshole. The downside is many of their words, including her saying she had more in common with AP than with me and her denigrating me to him, are burned into my psyche and continue to haunt.

Great post and I agree with you 100%

It's why I make myself #1 now

Same for me. I am now #1.

Hiking - I absolutely believe waywards can come to Jesus and really want to change. I believe WE ALL can, because none of us are without sin.

I guess my greater message, not articulated well, is that most (not all) BSs have been traumatized and that shock screws up our ability to think clearly. I mean think of why LCDRLost and his ilk get rockstar status on SI. It is because they are decisive and probably more than 3-sigma outliers among BSs. Even if we believe in giving R a chance, their decisiveness is just something we wished we had.

Ok, but back to the point. That trauma, that rejection screws with our (BS) ability to be rational, so we act in irrational ways. We cling to scraps of hope and perceived words of love from our betrayer to "get back some of the normal." When that is the LAST thing we do.

Interpreting the phrase "You were just collateral damage" as "Oh, they really didn't mean to hurt me so let me just rugsweep this shitstorm" is honestly, about as hurtful a thing a BS could do to themselves.

Look, I am not a psychiatrist nor am I practicing medicine over the internet - but I honestly believe as a BS that if we don't find something inside us to stand up for ourselves - to draw firm and consequential boundaries - to find something to make us feel stronger and more empowered - then we doom ourselves to misery. Because the wayward is already a screwed up person capable of inflicting massive pain on their BS. Just hoping they will stop and fix themselves and the marriage is a losing proposition.

And one last thing - I really do think anger is a great motivator for a BS, if used properly, to start the process of healing.

Does that make any sense?

I was absolutely collateral damage and I’m under no illusions that my husband loves me at all (not in my understanding of the word). He did not and does not. I think waking up to this actually helps you to heal. I did love him very much indeed, I used to say he was my world and he was, but I was not his. Facing truths is always hard but it helps you take steps forwards. When I came to terms with this, I felt free to let go of my marriage. Thank you for posting this rsu it’s a hard thing to wrestle with with but ultimately freeing.

I am approaching my first DDay Anniversary,(Thanksgiving Day) and it has me in all sorts of shades of confusion; I expected to be a bit upset, but not *this.*

So, I have been "causing arguments" by bringing it all back up. Questions. How I feel. Where I am at. Afterwards a huge dark cloud hangs over me. He says I just want to argue. I say I just want an effing labatomy so I never have to think about it again.

For the last 11 months he has maintained that he thought I didn't love him. We had an argument the day before Thanksgiving,(which ended when I said maybe we should consider divorce and he just got in his car and drove away) and his answer was to immediately look up a prostitute on craigslist and screw her.

I realized something just yesterday after 11 months of TRYING to reconcile. (He came home the next day and begged we don't fight anymore, he loves me, etc. The next day I found out what he did. He didn't even try to hide it. But he TT for months. (I still don't think he is 100% honest)

I realized he didn't do what he did because he felt like I didn't love him. He did it to see if he really loved me.

He said: you said maybe we should get a divorce so I thought we were done. (Is it normal to go spend the last $ in the bank account the night your wife mentions divorce on a prostitute? Sounds like a celebratory night to me) Ya. That's not love. Or respect. That is apathy. 14 years married, 15 together. I loved him. He didn't love me, and he was too chicken shit to actually talk to me.

It took me a while to accept that even though he said he always loved me, he didn’t. Having said that, he was in a place where he couldn’t live anyone, including himself. He hates himself and he wasn’t capable of love.

I don’t knwo when he stopped loving himself and me but he did. It took a long time to accept that.

By the way, discovery of a year's worth of email correspondence is both a blessing and a curse. The upside is that I have incontrovertible proof of her betrayal together with clear confirmation that the AP is a manipulative asshole. The downside is many of their words, including her saying she had more in common with AP than with me and her denigrating me to him, are burned into my psyche and continue to haunt.

This really struck me.

I have finally reached [gasp!] 60. If after a long marriage this occurred I probably would never recover. This is the age where maturity, knowing ones self, wisdom... comes into play. That's why I find it so shocking.

Because waiting around, clinging to the notion that you are going to lose their love if you stand up for yourself is likely only going to bring more hurt to you.

This was my life entirely for the 3yrs I was hopeful for R. Only after I let go of the notion that he loved me because he said he did, was I able to finally let go of the marriage. When he finally proved to me once and for all that he didn't love me was I able to finally let go and stand up for myself. I finally let the anger take over and accepted that I wasn't loved at all. His assault on me was the thing that woke me up to the reality that he didn't love me and I was just collateral damage. Not only did he not love me, in reality he hated me for being in the way of his true LUVVV. When I finally loved myself more than I loved him was when I finally let go. It still hurt, but I knew that I was worth far more than to continue to be hurt by someone that only thought of himself.

My H loved me during his A. It was a really fucked up kind of love...but he "made sure" that I was "respected" before he fucked the adultery co-conspirator . Once she agreed to his "rules" so that I would never find out...so I would never get hurt...then he felt it was alright to fuck her . THIS was the ultimate DISRESPECT . His love is now more genuine...sincere...and VERY respectful .

I have found there are varying degrees of love. We have ALL had varying degrees of love in our relationships. But I KNOW that my H loved me during his A...and he loves me now...and THAT is a FACT .

'Collateral damage' is THE term that made me understand I was not responsible for my W's A.

Each of us filters what we perceive. That means some messages get through; others don;t. So a lot of ideas need to be worded in different ways to get through to different people. I'm glad someone came up with this way, and I wish I remembered who it was that gave it to me. It was in someone's SI tagline.

BTW, WRT late Ds, the demographics favor the man. Lot of unattached women out there in similar age groups.

Financially, not so much. I was recently talking to a guy who split at 70 and whose financial advisor said he'd need to work full-time until he was 77 if he wants to maintain his lifestyle in retirement. Those are looong years.... My own plan was to teach English overseas for a while and then come back and M a well-off widow or divorcee. Or win the lottery.

[This message edited by sisoon at 9:35 AM, November 5th (Monday)]