SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hello all,

I decided to post this in this forum looking for advice or wisdom from those who have decided to plow through low spots and made it work.

History: 6 months post DDay. I am the BS (and I am truly full of it too so that is pretty apt, ha). My WW has always been stubborn and averse to change. We also have a history of poor communication. Avoidance, stonewalling on her part, storing up resentment until it boils over on my part. "We" don't do compromise, "I" compromise. This model doesn't work well when infidelity comes along and you are asked to compromise your values and not just how to organize the Christmas wrap. For my part I recognize a high level of codependency and have trouble enforcing my boundaries and being direct. In short, I knew we faced an uphill battle and were poor candidates for recovery from the start.

Sure enough, it has shaped up to be 6 months of false recovery and standing. It seems at this point my only choices are to accept my marriage exactly as it has always been (minus the expectation of sexual and emotional fidelity) or leave. In any other forum I would expect a stream of, "why, again are you still here" comments. In this forum I trust some of you know why I am still here, maybe better than I do.

Tactics so far:

Dealing with my own codependency leaves me confused tactically. I do not want to be the one doing the work, enabling. I also don't want to issue a list of my conditions for staying. I want recovery to come from the heart and not be a punch list. I struggle with how to describe to her my vision of what true recovery means and how I am judging our progress towards it.

I did buy her a copy of "how to help your spouse heal from your affair," she did not read it. This was at the same time I wrote her a really long and detailed letter (inspired by Joseph's letter in the healing library) explaining why I needed to know the truth and details about the affair(s). At the time her stated reservation was that she was afraid to go through all this only to have me eventually leave her anyway. So we have never gotten to the truth or having a common understanding of what recovery entails.

This WW has a thousand dollar phone with google and a short book that is basically the owners manual to my needs. If she was motivated she could figure this out.

In our last divorce discussion she acted stunned that I think our marriage is not on track. We do have pleasant day-to-day relations only because I do not bring up the pain I deal with (I have learned I will not get any sympathy anyway) and since I have taken a hands off approach and do not ram recovery down her throat, life is pleasant for her.

My 180 game was bangin in February/March before covid, hit a little snag but has now resumed best as I can without getting out and meeting new people. Gym, hike, career, quality time with kid, hang with one social isolation buddy. All on track. I do have trouble detaching at times. Sometimes the resentment boils over and I lose my cool. I realize that’s a zero not a 180.

So, next steps? Do I cave in and send her a link to the SI wayward forum, schedule a book club on "how to help your spouse.."? Should I spell it all out for her or just admit I have a wayward who plans to stonewall me into sweeping this under the rug and make my decisions accordingly?

Affair status is over per her word only. For a long time I held out hope we could make more progress once AP was out of the picture and FOG cleared. I no longer hold that hope.

Both the couples therapist and individual therapist concluded I should chalk this one up to a loss but I am still interested if I could somehow inspire her to dive into the wonderful spiritual journey that true recovery could be. To watch someone experience growth - be there for the metanoia - that is the kind of emotional intimacy I want to be there for. I know I am not going to get that satisfaction so yeah, what, exactly am I still doing here?

Dealing with my own codependency leaves me confused tactically. I do not want to be the one doing the work, enabling. I also don't want to issue a list of my conditions for staying. I want recovery to come from the heart and not be a punch list. I struggle with how to describe to her my vision of what true recovery means and how I am judging our progress towards it.

Look at dealing with your own stuff as a gift to your future self. No matter what happens with your ww, dealing with your shit will benefit you in the long run.

You shouldn't be the only one doing the work in your M. But... you should NEVER be the only one doing the work in your M, even without an A in there. Issuing a list is two fold - one, it helps you to really hone in on your NEEDS (not wants, needs) to move forward in your M; two, it puts both of you on the same page as to what that looks like. That list is important. Also, if you provide a list and get "I'm not doing that" or no action on her part, you pretty much have your answer.

I did buy her a copy of "how to help your spouse heal from your affair," she did not read it. This was at the same time I wrote her a really long and detailed letter (inspired by Joseph's letter in the healing library) explaining why I needed to know the truth and details about the affair(s). At the time her stated reservation was that she was afraid to go through all this only to have me eventually leave her anyway. So we have never gotten to the truth or having a common understanding of what recovery entails.

So she isn't willing to even read a short book to help start to heal the damage she caused? That doesn't sound good. And don't get it twisted - she doesn't want to talk about it because it makes her emotionally and mentally uncomfy to do so. It has nothing to to with whatever other bullshit she said.

This WW has a thousand dollar phone with google and a short book that is basically the owners manual to my needs. If she was motivated she could figure this out.

Oh I remember this argument with my xwh. The man would spend hours googling engine bolts, but when I asked him what he was doing to help repair the damage he caused to his M and his BW I got "I don't know how". Dafuq? Yeah, she managed motivation enough to have an affair, so it is in no way unreasonable for you to demand some motivation on her part to unfuck this situation that she caused with her selfish behavior.

In our last divorce discussion she acted stunned that I think our marriage is not on track. We do have pleasant day-to-day relations only because I do not bring up the pain I deal with (I have learned I will not get any sympathy anyway) and since I have taken a hands off approach and do not ram recovery down her throat, life is pleasant for her.

Affair status is over per her word only. For a long time I held out hope we could make more progress once AP was out of the picture and FOG cleared. I no longer hold that hope.

So basically, you will have a happy marriage so long as you only ever think well of her and have no issues whatsoever and never bring anything up ever again thankyouverymuch. Even without an affair in the picture, those don't strike me as either particularly realistic or healthy expectations. She wants you to just sweep this right under the rug and never look at it again. Do you think that is something YOU are okay with?

So, next steps? Do I cave in and send her a link to the SI wayward forum, schedule a book club on "how to help your spouse.."? Should I spell it all out for her or just admit I have a wayward who plans to stonewall me into sweeping this under the rug and make my decisions accordingly?

IMHO, no. Let her find SI if/when she wakes up and removes her head from her tookas. If she doesn't think there is anything wrong with her, she won't really benefit from reading here. And SI is your safe zone.

I think it is more important for you to think about what it is YOU want and need going forward. Why are you so hell-bent on holding on to this M? (I am not asking that in a derogatory way either - I think BSs struggle with that question a lot and it bears noodling over)

You as the BS get to drive the R-bus, not her. You get to set the terms and limits and yes, conditions too. A truly remorseful wayward will be willing to climb through their own ass to fix things.

I am still interested if I could somehow inspire her to dive into the wonderful spiritual journey that true recovery could be.

No, you cannot.

For my part I recognize a high level of codependency and have trouble enforcing my boundaries and being direct. In short, I knew we faced an uphill battle and were poor candidates for recovery from the start.

Whatever idiosyncrasies or bad habits or personality quirks you might have no bearing on your marriage recovering from infidelity. Unless your WW changes her behavior and her view of what’s right and wrong, nothing about you has anything to do with it.

And yes, the very fact that you believe that anything you say or do will cause her to change is the very picture of codependency.

My advice would be to study, read and absorb the info about codependency and make it your daily goal to recover from it. Your entire future will be better for it, your work relationships, your friendships, everything. This is your chance to become the best version of you that you can be and let the rest sort itself out. You didn’t ask for my advice but if you do, that’s what I’ll say.

I don't believe that you do not already now what will get you out of your infidelity madness. I don't think you need any enlightenment or third party perspective. I believe you know exactly what you are dealing with, what the consequences will be if you continue the path you have made for yourself, and also that you know you have no control over what you insist on wanting control of. Stop rationalizing. Set your own future course based on what is, not what you wish it was.

I am convinced you know well the score and the path. What is left is the will and fortitude to do it. If you have accepted the current state of affairs as your inevitable future, do nothing and you will get it.

Are you looking for hope to continue with R or are you looking for encouragement to stop R?

If it's the latter, here it is: stop it. She did the bare minimum, which is ending the A (as far as you know). She didn't even read the book. She doesn't want to put in any effort. Stop it and start healing yourself.

I am convinced you know well the score and the path. What is left is the will and fortitude to do it.

You're goddamn right I do. I have no tattoos but if I were to get one I think it might contain this quote.

Unless your WW changes her behavior and her view of what’s right and wrong, nothing about you has anything to do with it.

like dating an alcoholic who can't get to step one.

Reading through these responses something struck me: how so much of the last 6 months has been about me giving myself permission to do what is right and necessary for me, horrible as that will be for others.

so much of the last 6 months has been about me giving myself permission to do what is right and necessary for me, horrible as that will be for others.

and so much of that is managing this fear that my actions and inactions over the last few months have contributed to or sealed the fate of the M. How's that CoD eh? If only I had taken different steps to control a person who does not seem to want to participate?

And so much of that is managing this fear that my actions and inactions over the last few months have contributed to or sealed the fate of the M. How's that CoD eh? If only I had taken different steps to control a person who does not seem to want to participate?

Realize this is the first step of getting out of CoD!

Two months after my relationship ended, I read a book about attachment theory and conflict resolution. My first thought was 'if only I had bought this book sooner after my IC recommended it, so I could have brought it up with my WexBF, then we would've still been together.'

What the actual fuck? I was the one reading books to heal myself and be a better partner for my future significant other, while he was having drunken pity parties for himself about our break-up.

ETA: you know what to do. We're not gonna ask you why you're still here. You know why. You need that little nudge.

[This message edited by Hedwig at 3:52 PM, July 1st (Wednesday)]

and so much of that is managing this fear that my actions and inactions over the last few months have contributed to or sealed the fate of the M. How's that CoD eh? If only I had taken different steps to control a person who does not seem to want to participate?

CoD is all about control. Trying to be in control.

However, the reality is you CANNOT Control other people and if you think you can it is a illusion.

You did not cause her cheating, that was her CHOICE...

smurfy,

Do not give SI to your W. Keep it for yourself, keep SI as your safe place. You'll be happy you did - trust me on this.

You're on a right path. Keep reminding and assuring yourself about that.

Set your goal as 'survive infidelity, heal, and thrive.' Maybe that's R; maybe it's D; maybe it's wait and see if asserting yourself makes a difference.'

Your co-d keeps calling. Your co-d self does not want to give up its defenses. The more of your internal strengths you become aware of, the more your co-d will keep trying to call you back. I think you may be on the cusp of being able to answer the call and say,'Nope.'

Wherever you are on the path out of co-d, though, keep working on yourself. Getting authentic is the best way to avoid inauthentic relationships. Maybe your W will come along, maybe she won't - if you are authentic, you'll deal well with either case.

I'm really sorry you're in pain.

I can't help feeling you're getting yourself out of it.

Yup, it looks like calling it quits is your best option. You can't move on it until you're ready. You get to choose when you're ready ... but I recommend listening to the voice inside you that says, 'Why wait? Let's do it - the sooner it's done, the better.'

[This message edited by sisoon at 5:33 PM, July 1st (Wednesday)]

I'll tell you what she is going to do. Just barely enough. The absolute tiniest amount that keeps you in it.

When you talk about D, she'll say all the right things to talk you out of it. (She won't follow through).

If you complain she isn't reading the book, she'll read a chapter, but stop as soon as you don't ask her to do it again.

If you ask for her location, she'll bitch about it but give it to you.

None of this is going to come from her. It's NEVER going to come from her, because deep down, she probably doesn't feel like she actually did anything wrong, and that you being hurt might suck for you, but she doesn't care. She just doesn't care about you.

She likes your stability. She likes the house you can afford together. She likes STUFF. But you, you are merely convenient at best. More likely, she sees you as a tolerable inconvenience to having a safe and stable life. So what if you get pissed sometimes. She's been chewed out before. She'll be chewed out again. And if she gets really upset she can just go fuck her AP and hide it from you again and see if you do anything about it.

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 5:57 PM, July 1st (Wednesday)]

Smurfy, I'd like to change your thinking a little bit. Your WW has clearly said "No" to R through her actions. Choosing to ignore your requests for R IS a clear answer. It's a spot that many a BS gets caught in because the WS has done everything other than spell it out to then that R is not happening so they hope. They believe that some how an answer was not given. They hope their requests were lost in translation but to anyone outside of the marriage - the answer is no. She's happy to rugsweep until an OM comes along that she wants to leave for. She's happy to rugsweep until you become too difficult to stay married to because of the pain and damage of her selfishness. But a healthy, uplifting marriage where both of you feel heard, respected, and satisfied? The answer is no.

Don't try to persuade her otherwise by sending her messages and links and demands. The answer is still no. Your choices are rugsweeping or D.

Everything about reconciliation is hard - even with a spouse who is trying. My WH is not perfect, but he did and does try. He has read that book you refer to at least 3 times (he hates to read by the way), because he would revert back to complacency and not understanding my pain. Your WW unfortunately can not bring herself to read it once and it’s not a long book.

It sounds like she just wants to forget it all happened and I assume that she may be blaming either you or the marriage for her actions. If she wasn’t, I again assume that she would be much more remorseful and doing everything in her power to help to you to heal.

Codependency is tough to break. Usually these patterns are ingrained in us from childhood. It can be done though. Just try and remember that you can’t control her. You can’t nice her back, you can’t 180 her back. She is an adult and she is fully in charge of her choices. You may not like them, but changing her is not in the cards. She has to want to change and most people don’t want to put in that kind of effort.

Hedwig mentioned attachment theory in one of the posts on this thread. I’ve done a lot of reading on it recently. If you have some time, look into it. It’s very interesting. I discovered a lot about myself and my WH. You may find that you will be happier in life with someone other than your WW just based on that theory alone.

I wish you the best. I also recommend that you do not share SI with her. She’s a big girl, she will find it on her own if she is so inclined.

I really want to thank you all for taking the time to reply to my post.

It means more than you know. I am touched.

I have gotten some important take away from everyone and many quotes to put front and center and use as motivation.

smurfy

I have gotten some important take away from everyone and many quotes to put front and center and use as motivation

Having these quotes can be a good source of inspiration but you are the only source of motivation you need.

New developments for anyone following.

WW and I vacillate between warmth and caring and cold awkward ignoring of bids. Has been really warm and caring the last few days. I was gearing up for sort of a loving detachment conversation. I decided to cancel my camping trip for the weekend to spend some QT with WW and hopefully have a big conversation about our future. Actually about MY future.

She informed me she would be unavailable because she is flying downstate to visit her family this weekend. Yes, two days from now. Her AP is downstate. So for our purposes here, she is flying down to see AP in two days. Also, she still feels entitled to travel alone on zero notice, making plans for a week-long vacation without even discussing it with her "husband".

The only thing this changes is the timeline.

Just last night I said to my father, "maybe someday my higher power will come along and help me make this decision."

Sorry Smurfy:

There is no hope when she is still in her A. And she is still in her A. It is best that you call it quits. Have her served immediately upon her return from seeing the OM.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yup. Time to see an attorney, and get the process started.

She is the only one that can pull her head out of her ass, and it looks like she's not even gonna try.

I'm sorry.

I think you're right. This is as clear cut as it can get. She has chosen the AP over your marriage and is too cowardly to tell you in favor of cake eating.

It's up to you when you tell her but don't wait to see an attorney. Make the phone call tomorrow. Get the earliest consult available. You don't necessarily have to confront her about this if you don't want to. Being served with D papers is an appropriate response to this continued blatant betrayal and disrespect. Doubly so if there's any chance at all for her to sell you on broken promises and lies to stop a D if you confront her.