SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I’m back. But only for a moment. Want feedback from people that get this topic.

If you are a cheater. You are selfish. You suck. But what about an AP that knows they’re an AP and continues to try and be with the cheater? Isn’t someone that actively tries to be with someone that’s cheating an equally terrible person?

Backstory. My dad was a cheater. He cheated on the first woman with my mom for close to 30 years. 8 kids total and all our ages are mixed. So he was NEVER with just one of them. My mom actively pursued him knowing he was with someone else. Instead of them both being mad at him and holding him accountable, they chose to fight with each other.

My mom KNEW and still actively played house with him and had kids with him. I finally called her out on it. (Long story. She’s toxic AF.)

Opinions appreciate.

So in my opinion, yes, they’re equally as terrible. They may not be equally accountable to the betrayed, but yes, both equally terrible.

clear this up; who was your dad married to?

who was the first woman he had a relationship with?

did he move out from time to time, or maintained a house with

just one and dated the other one?

so he had children with both women?

I see your anger at your dad.

if your mom was the first woman, and married to him,

she could not bring herself to divorce him. many BS ignore

the cheating, or pretend to not know to maintain the status

quo. you see many BS put up with such behavior because

they just hope that their marriage can be saved, they do not

want a divorce.

even when the BS knows their is an affair 79% of marriages

stay intact. the PA ended, but that does not mean whether

recovery was successful.

now for your mom to accept such treatment, whether she was

the BW or the AP reflects badly on her. it shows that

something was broken inside of her to stay in such a

relationship. do not hate her for being broken.

rather you should move to the feeling of indifferent. you do

not want her in your life that is fine. do not feel bad about

that.

being you were a WW, unfortunately many children follow

in their parents steps. you were exposed to infidelity from

your parents, them using false justifications to cope.

you grew up broken which allowed you to choose to do the

same false justification to be unfaithful.

however you were strong than them and you learnt how to

fix what was broken inside of you. be happy and proud

for what you have now accomplished instead of being

bothered about the past.

what does, toxic AF mean?

There's a spectrum of awfulness when it comes to infidelity and it's the whole of the circumstances which places someone on it where they are. Regardless of being an AP or spouse.

For the record, I am just answering your question, not trying to “judge” any cheaters/APs here.

The cheater took the vows, they should be held accountable to their spouse, children, family members, etc. They are the ones primarily responsible. Generally, not always, the cheater lies about the state of their marriage to the AP - “we don’t have sex, in process of divorce, basically separated, we just fight all the time, we’re just together for the kids, etc.” The AP should’ve never fell for the lies (if they did), but I’m sure it’s hard in limerance when the cheater is such a catch and the inevitable divorce is just around the corner.

I don’t know, I will always blame the cheater more than the AP. I will never forgive the single COW in my case. But I do get why she did it. Who knows, if I was 22 and worked with my WH, I might have tried the same damn thing. I have FOO issues, my WH is attractive, successful and if his dumbass SAHM wife really was taking advantage of him and not giving him sex (LIES), I probably would’ve thought she was dumb and would’ve envied her life and thought I could steal it too. I get her perspective more than I will ever understand my WH’s.

IAT, from a BS, blame the cheater more than AP, just realize they both brought the hurt to you. Your dad was the one who did more people wrong though, in my opinion.

what does, toxic AF mean?

Toxic As Fuck.

Quick response before work. Will read more/respond soon. Just want to address one of the first questions I saw.

For the record, both of my parents are terrible people. My dad was a cheater and abandoned us with our crazy mom. My mom was mentally, physically, and emotionally abusive. Extremely manipulative and still is to this day. The only reason I survived childhood was because my grandparents stepped in. Now they’re both dead.

My father had 2 kids with the first woman. Then he had me with my mom. For the entire duration of their nearly 30 year relationship, he was actively with both women and having kids with both. My mom is the AP. She knew she was the AP. But she “loved my father” and never stopped pursuing him even though she knew she was an AP.

Edited to add: He lived with the first woman. He never lived with my mom or his kids with my mom. Not even once.

[This message edited by Iamtrash at 5:50 AM, November 2nd (Monday)]

To be honest

These kind of people do not deserve their children.

But what about an AP that knows they’re an AP and continues to try and be with the cheater? Isn’t someone that actively tries to be with someone that’s cheating an equally terrible person

The answer depends on how the question is specifically framed and from whose POV the evaluation is opined. Yes, the affair is the responsibility of both the AP and WS equally. They are equally culpable in creating the pain the BS experiences. So if you ask me--an outside observer--I would say each are equally responsible. As to whether they are equally "terrible (people)", my assessment of their wholesale terribleness would be fact specific. There are many people who make terrible decisions but are not terrible people.

If you are asking whose actions are more egregious, at least in my case, it was my WS.

Both participants in the affair are guilty of violating basic human decency and social norms relative to me. However, only my wife betrayed me. She was the only one who made a commitment, was in the position of trust, and was derelict in her duty. I didn't trust the AP; I trusted her at protecting the marriage against potential APs.

I do also realize that my thoughts are completely biased in this because both of my parents suck.

Dad was a cheater. Mom was an active AP. My mom also was “in a relationship” with my dad and left my sister (high functioning autism) alone in the park with some random kid so she could hook up with this kid’s dad. (Unsure who he was or his relationship status.)

To say I am over my parents is an understatement.

it appears you need us to state the obvious that your parents

suck.

you do not need our support in this. you are just in your

opinion.

ask yourself why you need this support from us. you should

of moved on to indifference. the way a BS heals after their

divorce they stop expending energy to hate their WS.

they do not allow their WS to have head space.

learn how to not give your parents head space. move to

indifference and be proud of the person, through the hard

work you have become.

[This message edited by oldtruck at 8:17 AM, November 3rd (Tuesday)]

For years I felt bad for my mom because she wasted 30 years on a cheater. She sucks, but she’s still my mom. That was my mentality. She has gotten worse over the years and likes to use my infidelity as ammo against me when she’s dead wrong.

I think the reason I posted this was because this was the first time I didn’t view her as the victim in their relationship. She knew what she was doing. She played an active role. She kept trying to be with him and having kids with him. She was never a victim. My father may be more wrong, but she kept being with him. Knowing he was with 2 women.

I guess I want to know I am not wrong in thinking she is NOT a victim. But maybe I am wrong.

married cheater and unmarried AP are, IMHO, equally culpable for the harm they both caused.

I often use the bank robbery analogy: one is the robber (WS) who pulls the trigger and shoots the bank teller (BS) .... the other is driving the getaway car (AP). Together, they both conspired to commit a wrong. And together, BOTH of them are responsible for the death of the teller, which would not have occurred "but for" the conspiracy (which takes two) and the willing participation by the driver / AP.

And I say this as a woman who knowingly slept with a MM in her teens. I still wonder if my current experience is karma coming back at me - even tho I was VERY young and he was 10yrs older than me (he'd be in jail if it happened today), and even tho I knew (not only from the MM) it was an open M, I knew sleeping with him was wrong and I did it anyhow. About 10 yrs later, I ran into the ex BW who actually thanked me and said I did her a "favor". Still doesn't justify the wrong I participated in.

Your mother is not a victim, and you are just in your feelings regarding both of your parents. Indifference comes from your emotional processing. Process your anger, your hurt, whatever else you may be feeling toward your parents. If you have triggered memories, let those play out. If you find that in your child mind, you may have accepted blame for your parents actions, show up for your child self now and clear those messages by telling yourself the truth about it. Allow yourself clear understanding. Once you do, you may find yourself feeing compassion for your parents behavior. They are this way because of their own upbringing/lack of processing, etc. they know no other way to be. It’s sad when you really think about the fact that by living this way they’ve never known connection, they’ll never know love, they’ll always seem to live their lives in this perpetual state of destroying themselves and destroying others. In emptiness. In a constant state of being lost. What a sad way to live. I feel bad for my cheating father after realizing this. What a sad excuse for a life.

When I finally saw things for exactly what they were and why they were, I was able to let go. I reached indifference. My mother, my father, they both did hurtful things to themselves, to others, and most of all to their children...but this has always been about *them* it has never meant anything about me and my worth.

Indifference. It’s one of my weakest points. I don’t know how to get there. And I know on all levels, it greatly impacts my mental health. Indifference, self-forgiveness. All struggles.

My mom was a monster and still is. Even as an adult I was still scared of her. Now I’m just mad. So mad. Years of her being her has taken its toll on me. She is dangerous and associates with people that are equally harmful.

My dad is trying to step up and have a presence in my life now. But it feels like too little too late. One one hand, my dad never put his hands on me, degraded me, allowed his significant other to harm me. On the other hand, he abandoned me with a psychopath.

How does one get to indifference? It seems so hard for me. Like I try to work through my feelings and past, but it feels so challenging to let go of.

I think it's all a matter of perspective - for example, my WW's AP was a friend, so when he slept with her, yes, he was a horrible person for doing that, it went against all 'codes' of friendship, it hurt...just not nearly how it hurt with my wife. WW made a promise to me, to God, in a church, in front of our families, to specifically not do this (in so many words). We bought jewelry to signify it, we legally had the government recognize it. So when my friend cheated with my wife, yes, it hurt, he was a terrible person to do that. But my wife's actions were evil because they were done to me having made a serious commitment to our relationship.

If you think about if you see a couple, and for some reason, you know they're two spouses that are together, cheating on their actual spouses, you wouldn't believe one was worse than the other, they're both equally shitty people. Even if one is not in a relationship at all, you'd still consider this two equally shitty people. It's when one of those people are your spouse that the dynamic changes.

Personal opinion....the AP is just as terrible and broken as the WS.

Why would anyone want someone that is cheating and and purposely hurting another person?? That’s a character flaw in them ....and the AP knowing they only have 1/2 that person. I truly don’t get why anyone should stoop to being the AP. My only rationale thru therapy is the AP needs their own therapy to come to terms with why he/she are settling.

I really don't see how a single AP is anywhere near as bad as a cbeating spouse. The AP is at best horribly self-centered and at worst sadistic.

The cheater is the one who is lying to their spouse each day. The cheater is the one who acts like they love their spouse.

Most imortantly, whoever the cheater cheats with, the spouse will hurt.

Even if a single AP pursues a married person, the married person can say no.

I would also add that if the AP sleeps with anyone else the spouse isn't hurt. The cheater sleeps with anyone else, the apiuse is still hurt.

Finally. Yes. It is the act of cheating that hurts. So both people are hurting the spouse. But if the cheater never found a willing AP, the spouse would be hurt, though not as much.

All that being said, I would put culpability at 70/30, with 70 on the cheater

Hey iamtrash,

I can relate to toxic parents/family members. I was abused by my sister (who was abused by our mom) and it took me YEARS to see that she was the one with the problem and not me. I'm still dealing with shit I've internalized from that (as she was considered more beautiful and more popular outside the family than me- so obviously I was the problem?). It's a daily struggle.

Your parents' problems were theirs. Their abuse of you was THEIR problem and had nothing to do with your being a person worthy of love and care. You are worthy of love and care. That they failed to provide it to you as a child is on them.

To me, before anyone who has hurt/abused you on a deep level has any shot of getting back into your life, they have to a. admit they were wrong in their treatment of you and b. show progress in themselves to make sure it doesn't happen again.

This is why I still have not told my mother of my affair- she has no accountability for the abuse she perpetuated on my sister, no accountability for the way she put up with my dad and no accountability for even the harmful and hurtful things she has done to us as adults. Her knowing of my situation would only bring harm to me as she would dust off her KISA costume and try and "rescue" me so SHE can feel good about herself. Just like she did throughout my childhood with my sister- the one SHE was abusing and creating the cycle of abuse with in the first place.

My WH AP knew he was married. My opinion is that she is a worse person then he is. He made promises to me and broke them, yes. Her H had multiple As on her. She had just filed for D the week before she met my WH. She knew very well the pain her actions would inflict on me. I may have been a stranger to her but she knew what she was doing. She saw the effect her WH As had in their children and she was ok hurting my child like that. She knew better then anyone how that was going to play out. My WH had an idea of how it was going to play out but he really had no idea. My WH is a worse spouse then she is but she is a worse human being as far I’m concerned. She may have been a decent person once upon a time but her WH broke her. Instead of working on herself and healing she chose to limp along and pretend she was fine. Now, she is truly a broken individual and so far gone I don’t think she could ever redeem herself.