SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So not sure if this belongs here or in Just Found Out...I am new to the site but appreciate any advise. I want to take the opportunity now to apologize if anyone may get offended by some of my post but I need to get out the details to best understand what I am going through right now. I am a broken man at this point....

So for the last 5 years my wife (46F) and I (46M) have had a rocky relationship. She become very distant, secretive of her life, guarded on her phone and we have not been intimate since then (yes a few years now). It has been difficult.

Before this time my wife and I were great, we loved each other, very intimate, had our son. We were in LOVE. In fact, we were high school sweethearts, we were each other's first and did some crazy s**t together when we were younger. I would say it has been perfect until the time we started having issues. I tried to talk with my wife about it but we always ended up arguing and sometimes we would even throw the "divorce" word around BUT we always stood together.

What I did not realize at the time was what was happening with my wife. Sorry this will be a long post as the story is hard to take in. I am still trying to absorb everything but know that I LOVE my wife an family with all my heart and want to save us if we can. So for the last few weeks she had really grown more distant and then a couple of weeks ago she started showing more caring and wanting to do some more family activities together (I was happy about that BUT I had a fear of what may have been behind it). As I said my wife and I seemed to grow apart years ago so I had my doubt and I started really digging. I am pretty tech savvy so I searched her activities, social media etc... What I found on FB messenger made me feel crushed. She has been having a affair with someone, sending all forms of loves messages, pics, etc... So I knew this was an emotional affair at the least but did it get physical. I only had a username at this point. Digging further I couldn't find much of a physical affair but it did not mean it was not there. I kept reading and going through what was hours of read. On my birthday, I think mentally I snapped and honestly felt like I wanted to end my life but realized that wasn't the right path for me. So I kept getting more evidence.

Until now....

So my D-Day was this Sat 12/12... I decided to confront her. At first she denied everything but I was persistent until she finally started to open up about her affair. So her story goes as follows: she started looking at online chat rooms about 5 years ago (coincidence huh) and a lady pinged her. They started talking in private chat rooms, then on the phone etc....she started to really talk to my wife and "find all her problems" and they became friends. Now here is where I can tell my wife got a little flustered but I made her continue. About 6 months into this "relationship" the AP started getting flirty and sexual with my wife. Now at this point you would think that my wife would have ended that but no.... she said the woman knew all the right things to say so they started their sexting, pics, videos of them pleasuring themselves. My wife said this only lasted for about three months and was only 5 to 6 times. Yes, I know even 1 time is too much. This lady lives in another state so they never physically met up in person. I find it hard to believe because how do you have a 5 year relationship and NEVER meet up but at this point I can only go by what she is saying. Now at this point my wife is upset and is begging to not end our marriage. I told her that if she wanted to try and save this marriage she would have to do the following to start:

End the affair (with me present when she does it).

Access to all devices, social media accts, passwords, etc....

NO CONTACT with the AP.

Write up a full timeline of how things occurred in their affair.

Complete transparency.

Location tracking of where she is and where she will be at all times

Even with all this a divorce may still happen. I know this is not how to live life but again I wasn't the one who cheated and I have zero trust in her at the moment. She agreed and has done everything so far.... While I am struggling with the betrayal I decide to start looking how things happened with her and the AP and that is when I found out more about the affair and what happened with my wife and this "PERSON: So at this point the rest of the story gets dark and I apologize again if anyone maybe offended. So as I said this person was a lady but she was also a lesbian and strong anti male personality. She started convincing my wife to join anti male lesbian only online groups. Mind you I didn't know that even existed but saw for myself. According to my wife this woman had total control over what she did. My wife sharing all of this with me. My wife could not say no to her. Now granted my wife had another secret here...she never told this person that she was married because she feared of how the AP would handle how she felt about men. So like all cheaters they live a LIE....my wife was living two lives now.

Now this next part here is where it gets worse and now I see that my wife was targeted (at least in the beginning. I did more digging on this person. Turns out she has done time (multiple times) including the fact that she is a sex offender, has had foreclosures on homes and also has a gun license (don't get this if she has a record). She even has a couple of aliases that she goes under. She is 10 years older than my wife and her alias is the same age as my wife.

This person called my wife on a separate phone she had my wife purchase. I responded and told her that my wife confessed everything and is trying to save her marriage and we do not want her to contact my wife again.

So here is where I am right now....my wife feels remorse and sees that she was actually taken advantage of but doesn't excuse what she did. I am totally devastated (so is my wife). I fear that this person may try to come and claim my wife. She knows where we live. Given her past I am guarded if she appears.

My wife has been begging not to separate and stay together and she says she is committed to trying and save our marriage.

What do I do next??? To sum up:

Been with my wife for many years. She cheated and had a 5 year emotional and "semi" physical affair that started by her being approached in an online chat room. They started sexting, etc...we grew apart. I always suspected and now started to dig into her text, etc. and found out. Wanted to end my life but decided to see what I can do save my marriage so I confronted her. She gave me the details after initially denying it. She agreed to all my terms if she wanted a SLIM chance of reconciliation and so far she has complied and I see the remorse and embarrassment in her. I did more digging on the AP and turns out she has been in jail, has a gun and is also a sex offender. She had mental full control of my wife. My wife compared it to a fog that she couldn't see what was happening and couldn't stop when it started getting serious.

Again sorry if this was a long read but it has been a wild weekend filled with plenty of emotion, crying, etc...Let me just say that I love my wife and son and want to keep us together if I can but I also feel that this marriage is burned to the ground and the only chance to move forward is to get everything out on the table (all her skeletons out), learn to forgive (I don't think I can ever forget), try to put this in the past so we can try and create a new future for us. I know that one of the first options is to divorce but looking for some advise on how we can help us try and salvage our marriage. I have cried more these past couple of days then I think I have in the past 10 years. I know she hurt me and hurt me bad but do you guys think I am making the right choice trying to save us....thanks again for any advise and comments you can share .

Welcome to the best club you never wanted to join.

That said I can tell you the chances that your wife did not take this or something else physical for 5 years, and stopped being physical with you are extremely low.

Additionally you probably only have a tiny bit of the truth of what has happened, and even though this woman has a history, don't fall for your wife being a victim, she consciously made decisions over and over again to be in contact with this person. She even had a burner phone.

The demands you have placed on her are a good start. I would also demand she have a full STD test, and you should as well. This will be very telling, if it wasn't physical at all in any way she will probably jump at the chance to prove it, if she isn't innocent she will balk and give excuses. Do NOT allow her to manipulate her way out of this. For several reasons it sets a tone about how serious you are moving forward, and your other demands, and also lets her know that you don't believe her fully yet, nor should you.

You should also see an attorney to learn your rights, you need to have a full understanding of what a divorce or separation looks like for you what your rights are and what her obligations are. This is important for you. YOU need to figure out your options in an informed method.

You should also see your Dr and let them know whats up along with getting STD tests, get a full physical . This is a real trauma and to pretend it isn't is not smart. Make sure your blood pressure is ok, given your age you could be on the cusp of heart disease and the stress of this can do harm.

Check out the healing library upper left side of screen, and keep reading here. Know that you probably are just at the beginning of a long journey, and that you will learn more as your wife starts to open up about her A. Figure out what your dealbreakers are and how you will react should they occur. This is very helpful in not becoming a doormat in the early days of attempting R.

Lastly you have not seen remorse yet, you have seen regret, but I would be cautious about remorse and real healing happening within the same weekend as confrontation. You don't have the full story yet.

Keep reading, keep posting.

I would like to offer that while I am a WS and cheated 11 years ago, my H and I have currently not had sex in almost two years and yet I have not been physical, or cheating, with anyone else. That is just to say it IS possible that her story is as she says it is.

and sees that she was actually taken advantage of

Your wife was not taken advantage of. You were taken advantage of. You’re still being taken advantage of by her.

No one has an affair for five years without physical, sexual acts. I’ve never heard of such a thing.

Your wife is in damage control mode and is scurrying around hoping you will believe this minimized version of what actually happened.

Also this is half a decade of lies and being with someone else.

Half a decade.

As that sinks in more, your direction will become more clear.

[This message edited by Thumos at 4:02 PM, December 14th (Monday)]

You should probably wait a few weeks before making a lifelong impacting decision, to be perfectly honest.

Yes, this should go in "Just Found Out" not, Reconciliation.

The first step you are in here is just "recovery" you have to deal with the shock, hurt, and pain that you are feeling. It's difficult to decide to divorce or reconcile during this time. And it may be like that for a good long while. I for one have been in recovery, and subsequently limbo for about a year. It's a long, slow, hard process no matter what you choose to do.

I'm going to give you some of the same advice I got that honestly takes a while to sink in. Your goal right now is not to reconcile or divorce. It is to first get OUT of infidelity so that you have some clarity to make that choice. It looks like you have made all the right initial demands, and at least your wife is willingly jumping through those hoops.

I wouldn't allow your WW to place too much blame on her AP for "controlling everything she does". The AP may have been manipulative, but your wife was receptive to it. Furthermore, as you pointed out, she had the presence of mind to lie to her AP by neglecting to mention she was married (to a man) while at the same time lying to you. I mean, that's basically lies all the way down. Rebuilding trust with her will be a monumental effort lasting (rule of thumb around here) 2-5 years.

The top two books I can recommend (and that are generally recommended around here) are "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass and "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from You Affair" by Linda MacDonald. Do not let your wife say this "wasn't really an affair". More broadly, look out for minimization, rugsweeping, and blame shifting as you go through your recovery process. Do not stand for it, and do not play into it. You need complete honesty and transparency from your WW, and she needs to know what feelings you are actually feeling.

I hope Sisoon will chime in here because his formerly wayward wife had a same-sex affair with another woman. Not every situation is exactly the same but he can share his own experience and some of that may resonate with you.

ask the mods to move this thread to JFO.

Schedule a polygraph test for your WW.

DH,

Sorry this happened to you.

Secure your finances as soon as you can, there is no telling what this OW will do since the affair is in trouble. She may convince your WW to withdraw as much money as she can and run away with her to happiness.

Do this to secure your sons future.

You need to have a conversation about how much money your WW gave to her, this is another form of cheating.

Have her write out a time line and get a polygraph.

DH,

And a long term question is will your WW ever be attracted to you again.

Just want to thank you guys for the quick feedback. It does help me in thinking about some of my possible next steps. I agree it is far too soon since DDay and emotions are still hi. My wife and I have been talking for hours each since. I have been asking questions (and yes even the more intimate ones). It stings like hell to hear them but I am asking for full transparency. She did write up a time line of how, when, what was done etc... so far everything I have asked for she has been doing. I have access to everything she has and have put all sorts of tracking and monitoring software on her phones and devices. Anything she does I will know. I will be looking out for anymore burner phones etc... we have separate bank accounts so my money is safe and the house is in my parents name. I never had it changed. We have several cars so I wouldn’t care if she kept one. The big point of contention would be on what happens with my son, custody, visitation rights etc... he is autistic so that adds another level of complexity. I will be seeing a lawyer just to see what rights I have and how to best handle this legally (divorce, separation, etc). I will make sure I am protected. I have my son to look after and protect. This was good advice.

Some of the comments that have helped think good and hard what is next .... “ half a decade” - hearing it that way hurts..... The idea of the polygraph is interesting. I do plan on looking into that... it may help with some of the questions I have like did she ever physically meet up with the AP... like you all I find it very hard to believe they held a five year relationship and never once met up. My wife swears up and down that never happened. A polygraph may help confirm that. I did ask her if she would be willing to do that. She had her reservation but did agree if that was something to help settle my mind. One commenter mentions going to see a doctor for a check up. I am doing that. About a year and half ago I had a heart attack and they even put a pacemaker in me. With all this stress I agree it would be good to go get checked. I am also getting the books one commenter recommended. Any feedback and help I can get does help.

As I talk with my wife for countless hours about her affair, AP, reasons for doing this, etc... she always breaks down crying. In fact I can say I have broken down several times both next to her and when I decide I need some alone time for reflection. She keeps saying that she messed up bad and it’s hurts so much to see how she her and destroyed her family and that she let herself get taken by this “monster”. She says she wants to try and save our marriage. She says she realizes that she may have put our family in danger also and she never stopped to see the reality of what she was doing. She acknowledges what a mistake this all was and especially how she pushed me away all those years ago. She doesn’t blame the AP for that but she said that was on her. She sees how her actions were directly behind the marital issues she thought she was having. She said she used those “issues” to help justify her other relationship. I think one of her biggest regrets is now learning how terrible her actions were and how dealing with the internet can be dangerous if you aren’t ready to handle the trolls, predators etc... she got taken in by that, BUT in the end this was still on her and she had the power to stop it at anytime and didn’t. She is starting to acknowledge that. I can’t tell you the number of “I’m sorry” I have gotten. She says she wishes she was dead (I know the feeling).

A couple of commenters mentioned counseling and while I am not a big believer in that, I do think it may help on the long run. So I am considering it. I do have fear that this may be spun in a way in which I am to blame and I don’t think I could deal with a counselor trying that. My mind would be locked down in the simple fact - I have always remained faithful (and yes I have had multiple opportunities to cheat - with far prettier and more successful women) and I never once strayed. I always stopped them before they thought we could have something more than a plutonic friendship. My wife on the other hand easily strayed and looked outside the marriage. Of all my questions it is the “ why” that haunts me the most. She can’t answer that and says she doesn’t even know it herself. In my heart I know there has to be something there or why else would she do this. Am I wrong by thinking this???

We are talking and still trying to communicate. She has been doing everything I have asked. We talk, we cry, we have even hugged (which is something we haven’t done in years). If this is all genuine or damage control in her part , I will see how it plays out. I am on the look out now and won’t let my guard down. This was some great advice you guys gave me. Again sorry for the long post but this does help to type it out and get all of this out. It is still very early in the process and still so very hurt by all of this but I do want to try and save my marriage. I know our original marriage is burned to the ground but that doesn’t mean we can’t start to build a new one. This new one must be built on the truth and not a lie. It won’t work otherwise. Thank you all for your comments. I will keep reading them and see what helps me move forward. I also will do some periodic updates as time goes by and things progress. Again... thx

OK ... from what you've written, I think you've been handling yourself pretty well.

I think your W may be telling the truth, if she never met ow. It's hard to touch someone when you're not in that someone's presence. In any case, this response assumes she has given you an accurate outline of her A. Some WSes do, in fact, turn pretty much on a dime.

Phone sex with someone other than one's partner is betrayal. Video sex with someone other than one's partner is betrayal. Now that I think about it, what you describe is, in fact, not the same as what we usually mean by 'P(hysical) A(ffair),' even though physical pleasure was part of it, but whether we call it an EA, a PA, or 'TA' (Technology Affair?), or something else, it's still infidelity.

I think it's great that you know you want to keep your M together, but ... my reco is to separate what you want from what you do. You can want to stay together for healthy or unhealthy reasons. Before you commit tor R, make sure the preponderance of your motivation is healthy. You can lead a good life after D, too, even with young kids. Talking with a good lawyer about rights and duties is a good step.

My reco is to keep asking questions. Every answer that's consistent with previous answers builds trust. Every question is an opportunity to to lie. If you change your questions around - I asked the same question at different times and the same question in different ways - and if you keep the questions open-ended, you're likely to get a sense of truth/falsehood that's much better than a poly can give you.

A poly is useful, IMO, if you come across an issue that can be resolved one way or another with a yes/no answer.

*****

IMO, in R

BS heals BS;

WS heals WS;

together BS & WS heal/build/rebuild the M.

You can provide emotional support to each other, but you have to heal yourselves. The grief, anger, fear, and shame you feel are in you. You're the only one who can resolve those feelings.

The fear, shame, grief, and anger your W feels are in her. She's the only one who can resolve those feelings. To R, she has to change from betrayer to good partner; she's the only one who can do that work. To heal herself, she is the only one who can build up boundaries against letting another person take over her will.

I think a good therapist/IC is essential for your W. A good therapist/IC can help you process your feelings and evaluate what's going on in your life and M.

Do not commit to R unless your W is willing to do the very hard work she needs to do. R is eminently doable for any partnership that does the work. It is impossible unless all partners do the work. And even though it's doable, that doesn't mean you have to do it. If you don't see yourself happily growing old together, maybe now is a good time to split.

*****

Obviously, I don't see the gender of the ap as a necessary part of R. That is, if your W decides she's gay, she is not a good bet for the long term. If she enjoys sex with you, though, she's somewhere in the bi part of the continuum. A bi person can choose to be monogamous.

*****

Being betrayed is the worst experience of my life, and I'm not alone.

If you feel awful and find yourself feeling worse and worse, that's par for the course. If you feel like you're in shock, that's par for the course. I think I was in shock for 3+ months, and I didn't recognize shock for 4-6 weeks. I was on a roller coaster down for 3-6 months.

But feelings are like waves - you can't stop them, but you can ride them.

*****

Some recommended reads:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/healing_library/reconciliation/what-every-wayward-spouse-needs-to-know.asp - if this resonates with you, I suggest printing it off and giving the printout to your H as 'something you found on the web.' My reco: DO NOT tell your H about SI until you're sure he's on board for R.

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=361740&HL=14993 - serjr threads for newbies

Tactical Primer:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=235051

Boundaries and Consequences 101:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=385631

Setting Healthy Boundaries:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=231851

Before You Say Reconcile:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=406548

The Simplified 180:

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=598080

20/20 Hindsight: What I Wish I'd Done:

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=161389

As I talk with my wife for countless hours about her affair, AP, reasons for doing this, etc... she always breaks down crying. In fact I can say I have broken down several times both next to her and when I decide I need some alone time for reflection. She keeps saying that she messed up bad and it’s hurts so much to see how she her and destroyed her family and that she let herself get taken by this “monster”

As difficult as it is try to maintain objectivity and detachment about the tears. WW’s often do this. Not saying it isn’t genuine, but they weren’t crying about you while in the affair (I know my WW wasn’t) and the tears are mostly for themselves, not YOU, not for YOUR pain.

Try to bear that in mind. It’s important to distinguish between regret at being caught vs genuine deep empathetic remorse.

Lastly take “mistake” out of your vocabulary. This wasn’t a mistake. It was intentional.

Your wife isn’t a little lost girl in the woods. She’s a grown ass woman who made a series of countless calculated decisions. She isn’t a victim of a predator. Do yourself a favor and stop enabling this narrative. Right now.

Hi OP.

You did good uncovering all this.

Your wife is quite a liar, lying to you, lying to her AP. You guys have some work ahead of you rebuilding trust in your relationship.

Maybe for now your wife should right off of social media. It hasn't served you guys well has it?

Does your wife work, was she communicating with her AP while at work? Was she communicating with AP from your home? While you're watching TV together? In bed with you? If she was doing this while in the same room as you, that's cold man.

Learning to forgive is tough. I never sought out counselling to learn to forgive my wife, years later now I wish I would have. That's going to be a steep hill to climb, no shame getting some help climbing it.

Being her warden (electronics, passwords, all that) I get it, it's helping you now and she's been a mess on the internet. Longer term being her parole officer is no way to be married.

You've got a pacemaker, put energy into down time and relaxation for yourself. Sure it's hard right now, but now's the time you need to do it.

She acknowledges what a mistake this all was

Ah man.

Damn that's some fine understatement right there.

DH,

Two things you mentioned do not make sense as a pair, WW says the OW thought she was single, yet WW claims they never met up.

What excuse could WW possibly have given the OW for not seeing her in person if she was single/unmarried?

In a way your WW is protecting the OW from your wrath by claiming OW didn't know. Given what you wrote I think it more likely the OW encouraged and manipulated your WW into an intense hatred of you.

Please get a polygraph your WW might agree to do it assuming you won't go through with it, but you need to do this if there is any future hope for your marriage. Five years with all her orgasms going to someone else is a long time to make up for.

Don't underestimate a criminal OW, the addiction to that type of affair partner can be intense and long lasting. The fantasy of saving an unfortunate person or making them into a good person is powerful.

My W 30+ years later still thinks criminal OM1.2 is a good person, despite stealing from a senile woman.

A few comments ask about the fact that my wife and the AP never met up in person.... along with all of you I too strongly agree that is impossible in my eyes. Looking into a polygraph was recommended in the comments and I agree that this is a good idea. I am actually in the process of finding and scheduling a polygraph to help this question and a few others I have in regards to her affair. She has agreed to do it if it would help me move forward. I will update once I have the results of that. Praying it confirms some of what she says but we will see. Thanks for all your support. DH

depressedhusband, in your statement below you went from I to we.

I LOVE my wife an family with all my heart and want to save us if we can

Saving the marriage is not something either of you can do alone it will take both of you.

Is this what your WW wants also?

Your WW left the marriage, and the family, when she chose to have her affair. Are you sure she wants either the marriage or the family intact?

The poly is a great idea. I hope you can get this done with everything else that is going on in the world.

She become very distant, secretive of her life, guarded on her phone

Marriage counseling might be a key sometime in the future to work on communication skills but right now you should stay away from this type of counseling.

Your WW might consider individual counseling in order to try to discover why she allowed this to happen.

So I knew this was an emotional affair at the least but did it get physical

In your mind is one worse than the other?

If it did become physical is that a deal breaker for you?

DH,

Praying it confirms some of what she says but we will see. Thanks for all your support. DH

I just pray you get the truth whatever it is so you can make a decision, a self-emptying confession can help you forgive.

You and your WW need to get tested for STDs if that hasn't been said, if you test positive you know it was physical without a polygraph, although the polygraph is still needed.

Also are there keepsakes the OW gave your WW?

This is one of those rare situations where I would recommend she take a polygraph.

And online affairs are as much cheating as actual sex is. Phone sex, sexting, Skype sex, and mutual masturbation can in some ways be even more intense than real intercourse. So, IMO, just as bad as an actual P.A.