SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I am contemplating contacting the son to let him know the type of person his father is and the part he played in destroying my family.

Do not stoop to this level. No children should ever be involved in their parent's issues. Would it make him despise his father? Maybe so. Would it make you justified in doing this? 100% not.

Any ideas on how to fuck with the AP? Or am I crazy?

No you are not crazy. I think all of us have fantasized about getting some kind of revenge on the OM/OW. Yes he is partially responsible but the ownership you are seeking is from your spouse. Both were willing participants. Some people here have seen karma effect the OP. Some have been a factor is seeing it take place.

You have already exposed to his spouse. She and your wife are no longer best friends. Who else is there to expose to with out bringing your marital baggage into the mix?

Your children are young and it's quite possible that they will never find out about this. Be glad. Unfortunately for my family my kids were older and the rumor had been churning for weeks before I found out. Although we have never spoken about it with them I am pretty sure that they know. A number of my friends kids knew so logic dictates that they too know.

Either path you choose will have it's obstacles and challenges. Neither option is going to be easy. If your wife is remorseful and will do absolutely everything she can to show you how important you are for the gift of reconciling, there is hope. Consistent action from her to prove she is worthy will go along way.

As our MC has pointed out we don't know what the outcome will be but you will have more regret if you won't explore overcoming these obstacles. You'll never know what could have been. Divorce is not much easier and sometimes harder work.

Don't ever forget how your MC gets paid. Is he doing this out of the kindness of his/her heart like me or someone else here? Or does he/she get paid for that advice? Does he/she ever advise couples to divorce? In what situation? He/she works for you, not the other way around. If you like him/her advise and it makes sense to you, go ahead, but never think he/she is right all the time. Ask him/her if he/she ever made a mistake in advising couples.

I feel bad for the AP's kids and Bedmans. The AP's kids have two scummy parents. I hope that they can learn and differentiate at some point. I get the fact that the kids shouldn't be impacted. I fear what they learned in this mess.

I do feel the AP and the WW deserve consequences. I fear neither will get that in this case

he manipulated her.

My wife is naive.

Her AP is a seasoned veteran at cheating and getting people to do things that benefit him.

She was clearly not thinking soundly.

I recognize this sounds like excusing her decisions in the affair.

This guy essentially complimented his way into my wifes pants.

I can't remember the last time I complimented my my wife prior to the affair.

The fact of the matter is that some people are more prone to affairs than others.

Spending intimate alone time with the opposite sex is a recipe for disaster for some.

An affair is unavoidable for some.

I was ignorant to human nature and the susceptibility of some to affairs. I knew his reputation. My wife is a very attractive fit woman.

Her mother died her marriage wasn't the strongest and this guy's looks and smooth talk

made my wife make some inexcusable decisions.

He made her do it?

Thanks for this, I can really appreciate the quantity and quality you produced there. You see, I work at an Excuse Factory, all day long, I work on the assembly line producing excuses, but these are some real good homemade excuses.

The big lesson to me is that I should never have given her permission to spend time with this guy.

Is it just that simple? Don't give her permission? Do you really think this is the big lesson out of this whole mess?

If so, then while you're at it, don't give her any more permission to have affairs.

Bedman, I hope you can laugh a little about some of this stuff. First, I hope that some of what I posted is a little funny.

But really, you are in bad shape man. You are trying to rationalize the shit out of this. Your wife did this. She is not so naive that she knows what is happening when sex occurs.

You do have a chance at reconciling this marriage, but face it head on now. You have to deal with your wife and what she did. No one made her do it, MAYBE she did not initially see his intentions, but he took his weenie out, that was a big sign that even your naive wife would be able to see that was wrong in a marriage and in a best friend. SHE CHOSE IT. I'm sure she has mitigating factors, we all do.

It is OK to hate OTHER MAN, you have no history, no good past, no past loyalty, for him. You have years of good history with your wife, but do not transfer her accountability to you or to the other man. Her accountability stands apart from your doing or not doing, and other man's intentions. Other man couldn't have sold anything if she wasn't buying.

Face your wife's decision head on separate from any culpability to other man or the perfect storm of excuses. There are many options she could have chosen, but she did not choose talking to you, separating from you, shutting down other man - she chose cheating. She knew enough to hide and lie to you and her good friend. The cheating would still be going on if you didn't find out. It was just getting good, she said.

Bedman, my opinion is that any successful reconciliation involves a good bit of luck and timing.

For example, you found out when you did. That was timing.

For example, other man is a snake. That was luck.

What if the other man was a "good" man, not a serial cheating liar, just a guy who is "naive" like your wife is, who was a good-looking guy, who complimented your wife, and told your wife how bad his wife is, how his wife never compliments him, and his mother just died, and he is vulnerable? Would your wife still be with you now? This is a tough question, many people never can be sure. What would be your wife's answer?

WK is knocking it out of the fucking park. The advice is golden, especially this:

You do have a chance at reconciling this marriage, but face it head on now. You have to deal with your wife and what she did. No one made her do it, MAYBE she did not initially see his intentions, but he took his weenie out, that was a big sign that even your naive wife would be able to see that was wrong in a marriage and in a best friend. SHE CHOSE IT. I'm sure she has mitigating factors, we all do.

It is OK to hate OTHER MAN, you have no history, no good past, no past loyalty, for him. You have years of good history with your wife, but do not transfer her accountability to you or to the other man. Her accountability stands apart from your doing or not doing, and other man's intentions. Other man couldn't have sold anything if she wasn't buying.

Face your wife's decision head on separate from any culpability to other man or the perfect storm of excuses. There are many options she could have chosen, but she did not choose talking to you, separating from you, shutting down other man - she chose cheating. She knew enough to hide and lie to you and her good friend. The cheating would still be going on if you didn't find out. It was just getting good, she said.

As much as you believe that you are holding your WW fully accountable, it simply is not true. You are crediting her with the adult-making decisions of a child, not a woman....let alone a wife. And while you stated that you doubt that this will ever happen again, the more likely reality is that it WILL happen again....unless wholesale changes are made.

She wasn't duped---she actively participated....right up until she was caught. And unless I am missing something here, besides some MC(which is WAY premature at this time), what is she doing that shows any remorse? What is she doing to take safeguards that will prevent her from falling into the same patterns?

There is a huge difference between reconciliation and false reconciliation. The problem is that the betrayed spouse believes that they are reconciling in either scenario. And unless you are willing to grind out every single possible detail of this affair, then you are unwittingly putting yourself into a bad situation.

Ok I hear your points. They are all valid. I am excusing her actions. I am not saying these things to her, these excuses. I am trying to justify where I am at right now.

I am trying to make sense of whaT happened.

I told her tonight I don't understand why she did this. She said she knows and that she is going to do everything in her power to make amends and change and then apologized.

I need to detach from her regardless. Is that what you are saying. Is MC useless at this point? I need to read more about the 180 and other strategies for recovery. Do I just need to get away from her.

She had texted to her friend about how he had cummed on one of her sweat shirts. She says she can't remember which sweat shirt it was. She thinks it might be a particular one but can't be sure. She often wore sweat shirts when she was with him. This is my new found agony.

If the clothes she was wearing when she was with AP are triggering you, ask her to get rid of them. All of them. If she and AP defiled anything in your home, that has to go too. Any gifts, mementos or reminders of the A have to go as well. That is the least she can do a this point.

MC is only helpful if both partners are 100% committed to saving the marriage. If you or your WW are not there yet, then maybe hold off on the MC. If you can, try to find a MC that is experienced with infidelity. There are a lot of quacks out there who will do more harm than good to your marriage.

Honestly, trying to understand why she did what she did will drive you crazy. What's more important though, is that she understand why she did it, because without that understanding, how can she assure she will not do the same thing again the next time a sugar daddy throws a few compliments her way? She does this through IC. Is she in IC yet?

Is she still involved with this friend who knew about the affair? If so, she needs to cut all ties with this person as they are not a friend of the marriage. I don't want to project on this, but my wife's best friend was having an affair on her husband. When I told her to cut all ties with her, I had my d-day. Cheaters love to confess to each other so I would not be surprised at this at all.

Who's idea is MC? I don't believe you are ready for that. IC is more important for both of you right now as you have issues that you both have to work through yourself. You can't work on the marriage unless you know what you want and she is able to identify what the real root of her issues are and how they got there in the first place. Postpone for now.

If she is remorseful and is proving to you she is willing to do anything and everything to help you heal, then the subject can be approached.

The 180 is a powerful tool when used correctly. As I remember it gave me control over something I didn't have and made me feel better about how I was dealing with things. It did help me detach and focus on me rather than my wife.

I want you to know the mind movies will never go away. They will subside, but they will never totally leave you. I'm speaking from experience eight years out and there is one movie that plays in my mind because of the shear shock I had when I found out. I live through it but it hasn't left me yet. I don't dwell on it but it is something to me that was so shocking it is tough to let go of.

I told her tonight I don't understand why she did this. She said she knows and that she is going to do everything in her power to make amends and change and then apologized.

This seems a new level of progress from her.

I need to detach from her regardless. Is that what you are saying. Is MC useless at this point? I need to read more about the 180 and other strategies for recovery. Do I just need to get away from her.

I am not a proponent of 180 if you are reconciling and she is doing everything you ask and she is professing love for you. For example, if you ask for her passwords and she gives them; if you ask her to write a timeline and she writes it; if you ask her for STD testing and she does it.

You have posted I think that she does not seem remorseful. Do you still feel that way? If so, why? Has she done everything you asked? How willing is she to do what you ask now? The question you asked of her about which sweatshirt seemed a good response from her - she is willing to tell you and not be defensive or resentful, but rather is trying to give you the info you asked for.

She says she can't remember which sweat shirt it was. She thinks it might be a particular one but can't be sure. She often wore sweat shirts when she was with him. This is my new found agony.

I asked my wife to repudiate everything related to the affair. I did not say that when I did it. I didn't use the word "repudiate." Because I didn't realize what I was doing. Only looking back, I can see that is what I was trying to do. What I told my wife was that anything and everything related to the affair, I don't want to deal with ever again. Any music they shared together. Any book they mentioned discussing. Any clothes she wore with him. All must go. My wife did not agree immediately. She said these are just things, not related. I said it's my way or the highway. So within five minutes she agreed. And was not angry or resentful about it, she apologized while she got rid of it.

My suggestion to you is to get rid of all of her sweatshirts. My point of view is that there will be so many things that you can't get rid of, the memories of what was going on between you and her while she was hiding and lying and cheating, the thoughts of her actions and words, which you can't get rid of unless you get rid of her - so whatever tangible things that you can get rid of, do it. Why should you walk around everyday thinking and wondering "was it this sweatshirt" or "what did she do when she was wearing this?" Whatever bothers you, that she can get rid of, ask her to get rid of it. I told my wife that my point of view was that it was an extreme sacrifice for me to even try to stay married to her, that I did nothing wrong, and that if she thinks these small things are more important than me, than she can have those things, and not have me. What are we talking about dollar-wise for those sweatshirts, $1,000 or less? Is she worth $1,000 worth of sweatshirts to you?

About 180, my observation is that it is a group of actions or lack of actions designed for you to detach from your wife so that you can be ready to divorce. In my case, I was ready to divorce her, so I did not need to 180. I had no advice, I just went on how I felt. Plus, she knew me pretty well, and she knew I wanted to stay married but only in a marriage where she is fully committed to me. She knew I was not afraid to leave and end the marriage.

After having looked on the internet, it occurred to me that many of the cheaters will push and push and push until the betrayed spouse finally says "enough" and is ready to divorce. Then and only then do the begging and crying comes from the cheater. Not always, maybe not most of the time, but many times, enough for me to see it as a pattern. I was ready to leave on day one, so I got the begging and crying on day one. But I did not do what I did to get her to stay in the marriage, I did what I did because I truly felt it.

very true. most cheaters will push as far as they can to blame it on others, to continue on with the affair, to rugsweep it all, or whatever.

they use threats, passive aggressive behavior, and all sorts of methods to get their way.

when confronted with their spouse (literally or figuratively) handing them a packed bag, opening the front door for them, and wishing them a happy life NOT married ... well, its amazing how all of a sudden the ws suddenly wants a second chance, to work on the marriage, to stop the affair, or whatever.

amazing how that works. "have to be willing to lose/end the marriage to save it" . until you are no bullshit ready to pull the trigger on the marriage the ws will push and push but once they see you are very serious and not willing to take it and are willing to act ... then they suddenly realize that they went way too far and that its their ass hanging out in the wind all exposed.

So, the fact is that you wouldn't have a wife or marriage if the OM is still interested in her. Now she is angry because she is feeling used. And you are feeding her delusion about her being manipulated.

You made good progress then went back to excuse making for your wife. You think it is OK for your wife to cheat if the guy has more money than you ? Notice how the sudden change cam about your wife when you started acting with some righteous anger and exposed ?

After D-day, you acted like a doormat. Then you started picking up things and made some good progress. Now you are back to acting like a doormat, swallowing what your wife is telling you about your deficiencies and about the compliments and excuses. You really think that if the other guy who was not a millionaire, the affair would still have happened?

Your wife honestly sounds like a narcissist herself, based on how she reacted. Take an online test and see if her actions are that of one.

You seem to be way in over your head in denial in that you don't want to hold your wife accountable or accept that she did this on her own free will and that she WANTED to do this.

You need to knock her off this pedestal and view her as she really is and not a victim of the OM.

There's no trophy for accepting the Plan B prize. You deserve someone to put you as number 1, not as the fall back guy. If the OM changed his mind she'd run off in a NY second.

Stand up for yourself, you don't need her, she is no prize.

If you are going to R, be careful with that 180. Do work on YOU. Her actions, not words, will either drive or undermine successful R

Wow, a lot going on here and I understand your confusion. Your wife is doing everything right you, say.....but....

She had texted to her friend about how he had cummed on one of her sweat shirts. She says she can't remember which sweat shirt it was. She thinks it might be a particular one but can't be sure. She often wore sweat shirts when she was with him. This is my new found agony.

How did you find that out?

Does your wife know you know this?

Has your wife admitted this to you?

Is this a question she should have answered to you?

With hidden secrets, if this was, R is almost impossible.

I don't know if she knows you are watching her texts, but if this were me, I would go into the closet and dresser and take every single sweat shirt she owns and put them in the trash, and then grin on trash day when the truck comes by and leaves with those damn shirts.

I told her tonight I don't understand why she did this. She said she knows and that she is going to do everything in her power to make amends and change and then apologized.

The why is without question the hardest thing to get over and many times the WW cannot really answer because they dont really know themselves.

Have her read the book Not Just Friends and maybe she will understand, she will certainly learn about boundaries.

One thing that is said on here is very true, you cannot make sense out of nonsense, and the why reasons are usually nonsense untill the WW gets down to the real truth, and that is within themselves. And in some cases, the WW lies to themselves more than they do to their BS.

The reason you are making excuses is that you don’t want to be compelled to take action.

Many BS draw a line in the sand at a point just past what they know their WS did. The placement of the line isn’t arbitrary. It’s placed where it is so they will not have to take any action. Then they can act all tough and say if the WS goes one inch over that line the marriage is over.

Then the BS calms down and finds out more. TT. Then they make excuses for their WS for having gone over the line that they just drew with such passion. Again this is so they don’t have to take any action. In extreme cases they become their WS’s defense attorney.

[This message edited by Graywolf at 1:09 PM, June 21st (Tuesday)]

She said she knows and that she is going to do everything in her power to make amends and change and then apologized.

Seriously I have to laugh when I hear this. What is she going to do - Un fuck the OM, wipe the mind video's out of your head of her getting a facial from the OM, or the OM ejaculating in her as per your description, and then the OM giving you the big old wink a the end of the show.

She sought out and had uninhibited sex with another man. What you believed was held specifically for you was given freely to another man. That can never be undone or amended. But hey she apologized wasn't that nice of her.

You have shown her really no consequences just a bunch don't step over lines or else and have been her strongest defender for her horrid decisions.

She's sorry now yep you bet she is she was caught and the OM left her by the side of the road like a blown tire. If you leave she's on her own.

Where was her remorse, her love for you, her integrity, her loyalty & her conscience while she was fucking the OM repeatedly. I hope you can live with what you know and what she did I know most men couldn't. I know I didn't and I have made a new life for myself without having to live the rest of my life with the person I had complete trust in only to find out she was the one who thrust the daggers deep into my back.

[This message edited by notanotherchance at 3:05 PM, June 21st (Tuesday)]

focus on the big topic. Her cheating. Not what sweatshirt it was. yes burn the sweatshirt. I get you wanting to know this. But the topic is bigger

This is tough to read. I know the feeling, people don't want to change, and your life was probably pretty good until you found that your wife was banging the wealthy stud AP. Maybe you feel that it was just a lapse in judgement, could have happened to anyone, etc.. I think in the beginning when this happened to me I thought of just clinging on to what was the "new normal" of living with a WW. I also blamed myself, could I have let this happen. Then, once the initial trauma and shock wore off, I realized that I was a man, was not going to be put into a situation of having my wife go out and screw other dudes, and began focusing on the 180 and improving myself. Went back to the gym. Went to concerts and other events with buddies. Refocused on my career. I also began to respect myself, and in turn she began to regain the respect she had with me. If you are a winey bitch, she is not going to feel remorse, she will just regret getting caught. No, become the guy she would have the affair with. And don't do it for her, do it for you. You want to be in a position of strength. You want to make the decision if you want her or want her to leave. What you have now is totally different. She is just appeasing you, hoping it will die down - she is running out the clock. Then when you settle back into normal, guess who she is going to be going down on in the back of the private plane? If you don't fix yourself, you are only putting a band aid on this thing. But if you start respecting yourself and requiring respect from her, then the outcome can be different.

Really appreciate everyone's responses!

I like how everyone is encouraging me to keep the pressure on my wife. The excuses I am giving are rationalizing and are my current creation. I need to get away from this.

My wife continues to say the right thing more and more. She is expressing her remorse and empathy more effectively and her defensiveness is disipating.

She hasn't been perfect either. She made a remark about me using a condom so she wouldn't get pregnant. I of course was triggered given her lack of concern with prophylactics and STD's with her AP. Her AP has a vasectomy or should I say he's STERILE and I am not. I immediately pointed out to her that her remarks showed little respect to me. She said she wasn't trying to hurt me. I said I believe that but she should be thinking about whether or not she is hurting me before she speaks and be quick to realize if she sas something that could be interpreed as disrespectful.

I let it be and distanced myself. I called her later to tell her I dont see a way to reconcile this marriage. That I discovered the A and it otherwise would have gone on for months/years longer with your stated intent to see what could come from the relationship. That the end was likely you getting bored with him and me never finding out or maybe you actually formalizing a real life relationship with the AP. That she had no intent or thoughts to confess even when it was clear i was on the verge of discovering the affair and utterly distraught by the distance you created between the 2 of us. What if the AP had little baggage and was a slightly better quality human being and continued to chase you to this day telling you he loved you and wanted to be with you. The fact that you lied over and over and continued to be disrespectful after DD and left the window open with your AP including breaking NC. That you gave to him in ways that you never gave to me. That you seem like a totally different woman in bed, more confident and appear more willing to experiment. I then told her that the disrespect has to stop now. She has to start thinking about me my feelings and how she can help me recover from her horrible actions. I told her that this had to happen immediately or this marriage would be over. It starts with you getting rid of any sweat shirt, jacket or any other piece of clothing or other item that I would associate with with your time with him. She interjected and said she would do that and anything else to show she was serious about helping me with this horrible thing that she did. That she would do anything. That she only wanted to be with me now and she knows that if she ever had left me she knew she would ultimately regret it and try and come back to me because there was no one that could love her and our children like I could.

For the second time since May 9 I have felt a modicum of relief. I know this isn't saying much and I need to keep the pressure on her and she needs to support me more consistently. She has been very complimentary to me more recently and is telling me she loves me.

I ordered a copy of How to help your spouse heal from your affair.