SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

MrSpock...

After 11 posts in this thread, please take your own advise and consider your post above to be your last post on this thread.

I haven't read this whole thread, but sometimes when you're done, you're just done. And to me it sounds like leaving is something you are not prepared to NOT do, kind of like you have your heart set on it.

I think you should continue counseling of some sort because the trauma doesn't go away as easily as you think, even with new people. There is an initial high. There was with me. But I could never trust anyone again so relationships never lasted. Don't be me.

I also think you should work on communication skills. That fact that you and your wife have not spoken of the affair for years is pretty extreme and I have no doubt this is why you are to the point of being "done".

I do feel for Mrs Waited and the kids, but really I don't see anything in your posts that indicates any inclination that you'd be at peace with another reconciliation attempt, not right now.

There have been a few nice stories on here of reconciliation after the divorce, and the BS in those cases really needed the divorce to happen before they could stomach a reconciliation attempt. There have also been a few stories of affairs just being a deal-breaker, period. But in your case I think it's more likely that the terrible communication skills and mind-movies did you in. The communication certainly could have been improved. The mind-movies... that's harder. Maybe you could get over those, maybe not, but it doesn't seem like you really did anything to try to rid yourself of them. Yes, you shouldn't have had to deal with them in the first place. But that and 50 cents will buy you a cup of coffee. Better coping skills will always serve you well.

Waited - that is a long time for trickle truth. I think your idea of separation is a good one. I hope you find peace and come to a decision that makes you happy. I don't think I could get over those mind movies myself. Good luck to you.

Grace Ann, thank you for your post.

What I said to you has haunted me ever since I hit "send". It sickens me that I actually typed that out so I'm taking it back so can I try this again?

I wanted it to end yes but not really. See if I wanted it to end I WOULD HAVE ENDED it. I'm lying to myself and I lied to you. Even when BH checked back into the marriage I wanted to keep the OM (as a friend). I'm ashamed and was sobbing just last night at how much I've screwed everything up. Our 25th anniversary was last week and I'm still reeling a bit from that.

That said I knew where THE line was. Had I had a PA I'd be divorced right now. You'd have to know my BH to understand this. Probably the only way we could have healed from a PA is if he had sex with another woman (he would divorce me first because unlike me has ethics and morals). If he could even the score it would go a long way at making him feel better. An EA to him wasn't as damaging and it helps that I never met the asshole in person and there were no naked photos or anything remotely like that.

I don't know why, but I am not really that upset about the last of the TT. I think possibly that in our recent discussion I offered kind of free pass to let anything out that hasn't been said. To those who have said our communication wasn't great you are right. We had a shit MC who I blew off after a couple of sessions. We were on our own, and to tell the truth the discussions were more like interrogations. It doesn't surprise me that she held the bed out. She took a gamble and it probably paid off. Back then I was so on the edge that if I knew 100% it might have pushed me out the door for good. I knew about the oral, the TT was more about how he humiliated her which I think is something she needed some time to finally see. That hurt her way more than me. In a sick way if it makes her feel worse about the guy, I am all for it.

I know some here don't think she is remorseful, but I know her and I know she is. She is a WS who wasn't broken before, but is a broken mess now. She did a terrible thing that I just can't get out of my head. I keep thinking why should I ? I didn't do anything wrong. Know I am letting events control me, but like a shitty golf swing I know what I need to do , I just can't. Does anyone get that. I am in the early stages of IC, but that will probably come to an end when I move.

Grace Ann, don't beat yourself up. Your post was thoughtful and Iappreciated it. Not to thank the other BS, it is good to get a different perspective. You also didn't cross a line that you can't recover from. None of this is good, but mine feels just really bad.

Sorry she is regretful not remorseful. It is how her actions impact her not how they impact you.

She would rather see you unhappy and in pain to make her happy and not in pain.

The Om is generally a parrot or a mirror of the WW. He is telling her what she wants to hear and doing what she wants done. Om was not humiliating her, he was helping her humiliate you.

The fact she knew the other,workers knew and did not stop is a very big indicator of the truth.

I am in the early stages of IC, but that will probably come to an end when I move.

^^^I doubt that you will be all better once you've moved. Directed self reflection and learning new ways to think about things are what will help you get past this. Find a new IC down there. Your mind is a worthwhile investment.

She would have been perfectly content to let you sleep in the same bed she had sex in with another man just because the headboard matched.

What the hell? Was it suspossed to be some kind of trophy? Did she want to keep it as a reminder of her trist?

This is an indicator that she was/is not R material. 5 years, 1800+ days, any one of those days she could have told you the truth. I get why she did not the first week or so, she was covering her ass. Trying to keep you from leaving. But a remorseful WW would have told you sooner than 5 years later. It was about her, her feelings, her wanting to save face, the marriage, etc. She was not withholding this piece of the story to spare you. Me. Me. Me.

I for one think you are making the right decision. Get away, get perspective. Re-group your feelings, take back you manhood. Decide later about the long term solution.

waitedwaytoolong,

I am amazed that your ww kept the truth from yiu for 5 years, I mean you knewbit but she never conffesed, even been reading at SI as she has been doing. I undestand that she was trying to protect her self and the marriage.

One question. Did she has an emotional conection with OM？ I believed she was having fun on the side, just sex, but OM humiliating her and asking her to.not hve sex with you and telling her she was her girl...sorry but IMO tehre were an emotional conection.

Did yiu ever asked her if she told him ILY? Or if he ever badmouthed you? If they ever tlaked about you？

Do you think she protected OM on D Day？

I kniw thus kind of POSOM, they want to humiliated not the WW but the husband, because he has money, hot wife, nice house, etc. Thats why he was trying to make her fall for him (IMO she started to) and do thungs in front others.

I know at this point all of this is on the past, but IMO when the BS do not know the truth, whe things just dont make sence, the BS can not find peace and heal. Maybe now that you know a bit mpre, things seems to be clearer, maybe not to fix your marriage but to heal you. I hope your have everything now and you can start to heal.

About healing, dating other women will be a big ego boost, not for the sex but for the companion and most important the interrest in you.

Mrhealed, The whole thing took place over about a six week period. The first 3 was no sex but him getting into position. The talk about me was from him laying track that she wasn't appreciated. I didn't know how smart she was, I doesn't appreciate how hard she work on herself (she was working out like a maniac) she deserves someone in better shape. Nothing horrible, and she didn't really bash, but more of a set up.

It really was just sex. Basically M-Th from 4:30-5:30. No calls, no seeing each other outside the house. Now who knows what would have happened if it kept going.

I am sure there was some kind of connection. Not love but something.

The whole thing came to a screeching halt when I busted on DDay. No protecting him. She realized how much deep shit she was in that she could only concentrate of protecting herself and trying to keep me. Didn't leave any time to think much about him.

I do agree with you on the humiliation part. She didn't see it then, but sees it now.

She is a WS who wasn't broken before

This is why you can't get past this. At least I have an official diagnosis of bipolar now which also helped my BH forgive. You have nothing. Nothing to even remotely lie to yourself about. No child abuse. No neglect. No mental illness. Nothing.

Waited, I know how hard it is to leave a long term marriage. I've been married over 23 years and I've been dealing with my WW's 5-6 month A for almost 18 of those years. I can say I haven't been completely comfortable, and that's not the best word to use, maybe it's better to say I haven't been at peace with the marriage every since DDay. I don't feel I can rely on my wife and haven't for years. I know I need to leave for my sanity but just can't quite pull the trigger yet. It sucks. I think I'm staying just to punish her. I'm putting her through hell. I guess I need a few pounds of flesh from her before I divorce her. That's fucked up.

I do think there is some amount of settling involved for all betrayed spouses (except for sistermilkshake). No one wants infidelity in their marriage. You can frame how you view the situation any way you like. I used my children as a reason for staying. Some, take the viewpoint that all marriages have problems so cheating can be their marital issue. Finances, fear, feeling like a failure - pick your poison. You can work on your marriage and it can get better. Better communication, love languages, polygraphs, retrouvaille, books, MC, IC, I've pretty much done it all. Will the M be as good as before? Not in my experience. Can you learn to appreciate how your WS and the M has changed? Yes. Does that take away what happened? Again, not in my experience. The fact is all of our spouses chose someone else over us. They did not value the marriage while making the choice to cheat. The reward for the cheater was worth the risk of losing the M. Until they get caught or the new wears off of the APs genitals. Hell, crime pays until you get caught. Anything taboo is fun until you get caught.

I have reached the point where I don't really care to sort out my cheating wife's reasons or whys. That's her fucking problem. The goal for me is to get through the ordeal of infidelity. What she did remains no matter what the "reason". I can choose to work through these issues, and by work I mean pick reasons to stay, even though I know the marriage will be diminished, and look at the changes in our relationship as something positive. Or I can forge my own way without her.

Good luck waited. I really do hope you find your way out of this mess, whether you stay with your wife or leave her.

Waitedtoolong, ­

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I strongly believe on­ce all the main facts­, and each one of the­m, make sense you wil­l start to heal.

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You may know the big ­pic but you need to a­ccept that you will n­ever know the details­ (feelings, badmouthe­d, lusting, etc). She­ would be very ashame­d to come clean about­ it, even if she reme­mbers it. This is ver­y important to move o­n with or without her­.

­

Infidelity is a lose ­lose situation, as yo­u pointed out before ­if she would come cle­an on DDAy maybe you ­would have divorced h­er right away, now th­at you know the truth­ and you can heal is ­too late…

­

While you are away, i­n my experience you need to accept that with the fact tha­t:

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·­ ­Sex with OM was the b­est she ever had, not­ because of OM but th­e rush of the forbidd­en and the new. She m­ay be feeling guilt e­very time she remembe­rs but the fact is th­at sex was so good th­at she came back for ­more each time OM wan­ted where ever he wan­ted. IMO was just for­ the sex as there was­ no emotional attachm­ent (this is just my ­opinion and I may be ­wrong and she did it ­for the attention I j­ust doubt it).

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·­ ­She cheated because s­he wanted, there were­ no external magic fo­rces that made her ha­ve an affair. She kne­w from minute one wha­t she was doing she j­ust took you for gran­ted.

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·­ ­She is not a bad pers­on; I bet you already­ know that.

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·­ ­She is in pain, not j­ust because of your p­ain, but the plain fa­ct that she cheated: ­she has been living a­fraid of losing her w­orld, and grieving fo­r the plans that now ­will never come, for ­5 years. As you staye­d in the same house s­he may trigger every ­now and then. I canno­t tell if she deserve­s it or not, nor comp­are your pain with he­rs, but IMO you shoul­d try to release her ­from her personal hel­l.

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·­ ­She didn’t make a mis­take, she made a bad ­decision and carry on­ with it until get ca­ught. Infidelity is n­ot a mistake; mistake­s are not planned and­ repeated. It doesn’­t mean she has change­d for the person you ­married, she is the s­ame person but now yo­u know that she is ca­pable of hurt you.

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·­ ­I specifically strugg­led with the impressi­on that WXGF may be t­hinking, and lusting,­ about OM while with ­me. As sex is sex and­ love is love right? ­You need to understan­d that there is nothi­ng you can do about i­t. I still remember p­revious, very sexual,­ relations that had n­othing to do with inf­idelity as I believe ­everybody else. This ­is part of each perso­n’s story, accept it ­and move on. This is ­just my impression as­ part of my story is ­that she leaved while­ having sex with me t­o have a beer with on­e of OM. A beer with ­him was way more exci­ting than having sex ­with me.

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·­ ­Even if you leave her­ for good, you will n­ever be the same. You­ need to work on it r­eally hard. That’s wh­y I am here after 20 ­years, married to ano­ther woman.

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·­ ­You need to decide to­ be well and to be ha­ppy; it is a state of­ mind. You need to tr­y every day, it won’t­ come just because yo­u are separated from ­your wife.

­

I understand that the TT didn't upset you. You probably felt more relieved at this point to get the truth that you suspected all this time. You are in a tough situation. You still love her and don't want to hurt her. You also are in pain and can't heal. Aside from the issues of reconciling this in yourself. You couldn't move on because she wasn't even healing herself all this time. The foundation was still infested with termites. You may feel lost. Some of that is because the foundation was still unstable.

Some important questions to ask yourself. Can you ever trust her again after TT. 5 yrs is a long time for her to with hold the truth even to herself making an obstacle to her healing and yours. Can you move forward with someone that is that selfish? Yes, she did it to protect herself from D. It was still a selfish choice. She still chose herself for 5 years over you.

She is a WS who wasn't broken before, but is a broken mess now.

She was. You just didn't know it. A healthy adult doesn't choose this behavior. You must stop seeing your wife as a victim of this OM and start seeing her as his mirror. She willingly chose those actions. You are mourning the woman you thought she was. We all do that. The woman you thought she was didn't exit for a long time way before she started that affair. Looking back there was always some dormant thing in her that would allow her to do this to herself and those around her.

She­ would be very ashame­d to come clean about­ it, even if she reme­mbers it.

This is a good point. She withheld so much because she knew it was shameful. Who knows what else she isn't telling you. How will you let that go? Can you? She has proven she can't be honest. Do you wonder if that was the last TT?

She did a terrible thing that I just can't get out of my head.

You shouldn't. You need to own it together and work through it. Past it. It sounds to me that you have been raging against it. As if you are stuck in a phase of healing in denial. It happened and nothing can change it. All you can do now is accept it and make it a part of your past. Learn from it, grow from it, and move on. You are either going to be able to make this a frayed part of your quilt of life or you stop and start a new one.

I hope things work out for you. Your wife has a lot of work ahead of her to become safe for anyone. I would hope she is in IC too? I am just curious, why do you want to date?

anoldlion: what is your answer to all 3 questions isn't yes? 2 out of 3 ain't bad?

(1) Do you love your wife?

(2) Are you going to be better off mentally, emotionally, and physically, living with her or without her?

(3) Do you feel in your inner most being that she deserves a second chance?

Empty, not sure what you meant by this post. I think if any of the answers is no, that is not good. To reiterate, Yes i do love my wife, I am changing the answer on do she deserve a second chance to should i give her one as it really isn't a matter of deserving, I don't deserve what happened. Should I, probably.

But the answer to the last on is will I be better off emotionally? I don't know but I have to do something to get out of this rut. I guess I will see and that is why i took formal separation and divorce off the table.

Hopefully Mother as to why I want to date surprising I never gave that much thought. It just seemed like the natural progression of a separation and to see if I can find some joy again. We have a black cloud over us and it would be nice to go to dinner with someone and not have the monkey on my back.

There is a world of women out there who have not slept with a contractor and then lied about it for 5 years. Who have never cheated nor are inclined to. Who will honor and respect you the way you deserve to be.

So nothing wrong with going to dinner with one or two. Have a conservation over a little surf-n-turf without looking at the trigger that is your WW. See what is out there. You might just find happiness.

If not, if you have a major change of heart you can always go back. Assuming she has not gone looking for another toolbelt so to speak.

As probably one of the few that had their then spouse find them on here, it hurt but it didn't change the outcome.

She was piiiiiissed. I mean mega pissed but she was, and still is, all about herself. Her needs always came first and she was mad at everything I did, I said and everything everyone else said about her. It was all about her.

Waited, I'm new here and still figuring out how to properly post. I was trying to ask anoldlion about those three questions because that was the person who originally posted them. I'm in a similar boat as you and having a hard time answering yes to question 2.

[This message edited by EmptyInside77 at 10:32 AM, August 24th (Wednesday)]

Why do you think it is okay to date without a formal separation? How does your wife feel about that? If you do manage to get over the affair, will that become an new marriage issue?

I understand you want to get away. Have some joy. Enjoy life. You deserve it. Just make sure you are not doing the same destructive choices that your wife did in the pursuit of fun. If there is any possibility that you may be able to salvage your marriage you must be prepared with the aftermath of your dating. If she is opposed to it in you temporary separation, then perhaps you should go the extra step and make it formal. I think that many that have "formal" separations do date. Not sure. I could be wrong. However, if your wife is okay with it and what you are describing then no big deal.

I understand you intend to tell your dating partner about your situation. Just make sure you are really clear about it. That is something that many unknowing OW/OM hear when they post here. "We are on break. We are living apart. My marriage is a wreak. We are going through a separation." Then, they suddenly find themselves adrift and actually an OW instead of a dating partner. Just make it really clear that you may be getting back together with your wife and why. So that you don't unintentionally turn some single woman into a OW who misled her about the state of his marriage.

Just be mindful of the people on the other end of the dating situation. Sorry, to sound like a mother. I had a friend that dated a man in a similar situation and had her heart broken when he decided to go back to his wife after a formal separation. She walked out of that feeling like a rebound relationship. She met his wife many times when they went out with his kids. She truly believed things were done.

I am almost 4 yrs out. I never thought my husband deserved a second chance. He earned it. With hard work. Lots of changes. I gave him a second chance because of grace and mercy which he earned by my moral values. I deserved to do what I wanted to do. He had to prove himself to me. Regardless of any marriage issues that may have existed. He had to earn the right to work and focus on them after he changed himself.