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WWTL- I will echo the suggestion that you get IC for you. Do what you need to do to get yourself to a place of peace.

Not saying you should or should not stay married. But regarding dating while separated:

I think that is playing with fire. I think you are underestimating the rebound. I was married for 5 years and had 2 kids and didn’t start dating until after I was divorced. The end of that first serious relationship post-divorce hurt more than the end of my marriage. You are excited and eager to date and I can understand why and I can understand wanting to feel wanted.

Here is how it will go: you will meet some lovely women. You will fall for one. Because you WANT to. Because she is different from your wife and because you finally have someone that doesn’t have that baggage and because it is new and fun. Doesn't mean it will work out. But now you are sure you want to D because of this new woman. So when that ends - then what? Will you regret choosing her over your wife? It is too cloudy and complicated.

I think you should be married or be divorced. The in-between is going to hurt everyone, including the new woman, no matter how much you warn her about your situation.

Good luck to you in whatever you decide. I know it is hard.

Go have some fun. Your wife certainly did!

This will most likely end in the divorce that should have happened five years ago. Either you will fall in love with someone or your wife will find someone and fall in love. The chances are pretty low that you'll date for a while then want to return to the woman that has caused you so much pain. It is also unrealistic to expect her to be celibate while you are out dating. She will eventually start looking for someone to spend time with too.

The reasonable couse of action would be to go ahead and divorce now, sell the house, then move on with your lives. If you decide to date your XW later, you can do that.

In looking at what she did, I don't know how you can ever get those mind movies to go away. In the end, she became somewhat of an exhibitionist, performing when she KNEW others were aware of what was going on. I could never recover from that humiliation personally.

The reasonable couse of action would be to go ahead and divorce now, sell the house, then move on with your lives. If you decide to date your XW later, you can do that.

I personally feel that this makes the very most sense. You probably won't end up together, but who knows. No matter what you do, take care of you. I think IC would be great because even if you do divorce and move on, you need to be able to process and move past what your wife did and how it has made you feel all of these years. You deserve to be free of that regardless of what choice you make and it won't go away all on it's own. You deserve to be happy.

Hey, brother, you gave it 5 years and you now realize it just isn't happening. Your situation reminds of that old Patty Smyth song, 'Sometimes Love Just Ain't Enough'. Her love for you wasn't enough to keep her faithful to you, and your love isn't enough to overcome the dagger she thrust into your heart. That's just the way it is sometimes.

Your moving away sounds like a good idea. Go to your other property and find yourself again. Go out and golf, join a bowling league, make friends, go sailing, hit the beaches, go fishing, anything and everything you enjoy doing. Also, once you leave, you should tell your daughters you don't want updates on what mom is doing, and don't contact her yourself, unless there is an emergency of some sort. If you keep in weekly contact with her, you may as well just stay in the house with her.

The first little while may be tough, so give it some time to pass. Staying busy and having no contact, will allow you to make better decisions about which way you want to go. You should also give it some time before you start dating again. Jumping in to soon could cause some problems. And you have time, in 6 months or a year there will still be millions of women around and you will be in a better head space. Stay strong.

[This message edited by longforgotten at 11:08 AM, August 25th (Thursday)]

Best wishes, WWTL, in whatever you decide to do.

I've following this thread and it just makes me sick to my stomach there are so many parallels to my situation - the "grooming" of our WW's by the AP (my WW's AP kept telling my WW I had abandoned her, and that she didn't want to live this way, that she was destined for so much better - promised her trips to Europe, etc), always made her tell him about our sex life, treated her as his possession, etc. Sex in our bedroom, on our bed. Keeping everything a secret after it all blew up, to protect kids and wife's mental health and stability. Lots of tears, and the post-affair discussions that seemed more like interrogations. I felt like I had to act more like a prosecuting attorney to get any kind of accurate truth out of her, phrasing questions perfectly, and then it was still 1 1/2 yrs of TT (as far as I know, and how can I ever know for sure now?)

Waitedwaytoolong you had one of the worst adultery situations that I’ve ever heard of and you did remarkably well. Now is the time in your life to put yourself first. You certainly deserve it. You have earned the right to do whatever you want to do.

Your wife doesn’t seem to have a core. By that I mean that she goes with the flow. When she’s with a good crowd like your family she’s good. When she with a bad crowd like the OM she has no problem at all going along with it.

Graywolf

She is fundamentally a good person who made a terrible choice. She raised two great daughters with me and for that I am eternally grateful.

Waitedwaytoolong

I’m sure your wife has many good qualities. I didn’t say otherwise. She just seems to go with the flow.

If you’re in a church group there is social pressure for good behavior. If you run with a bad crowd there is social pressure for bad behavior. That why if a good teenage boy robs a liquor store people explain it by saying that he fell in with a bad crowd. It doesn’t take character to go with good or bad flow. Character is the ability to say “no” to the crowd.

He convinced here to do oral on him in a room right next to where everyone else was working. It was probably a set up by him, cause when they came out most of the guys were looking at her with a grin and she was sure they knew what happened.

Even after the oral room situation she went back until I finally caught her.

Waitedwaytoolong

I understand why your wife wouldn’t fire him after this episode because you would want to know why. But why in the world couldn’t she stop servicing him? If this didn’t cause her to break up with him what would?

He was telling her not to have sex with me anymore as she was his. She did cut it back.

I asked her what if he wanted to take pictures, or do a threesome. She said she would have never done that. I said how can you say that? What if I asked you a year before if you would sleep with someone else in our bed. She then said I guess I don't know what I would have done.

Waitedwaytoolong

Your question above was right on the mark. She just couldn’t say no. That’s my point.

Either it’s part of her fundamental character (wanting to please) or she’s sexually submissive and was so turned on by being told what to do that she couldn’t resist.

[This message edited by Graywolf at 1:24 PM, August 25th (Thursday)]

She also was crying about how all of these other men can forgive, and I cannot. How can I say on this site that she has been a model spouse since DDay and not give her another chance?

Waitedwaytoolong

The answer is because you have more to forgive than about any other man on this site.

A decade long affair would have been better. I have never heard of an OM so dedicated to humiliating a husband and the wife went along with it.

You said that she ultimately she told your daughters because of reading your posts here. Did she tell them how she went along with all the multiple ways the OM wanted to disrespect and humiliate their father or merely that she had sex with the contractor?

You said once that the relationship was like a pack full of rocks and that you were tired. You need to drop the pack and have a nice walk into the future with a clean conscience.

[This message edited by Graywolf at 1:28 PM, August 25th (Thursday)]

Oh, Graywolf, why are you trying so hard to fan the flames? I don't understand your intentions. Look, it is awful what wwtl's WW did. I feel wwtl understands that very well. What my FWH did was awful. What everyone's WS's did is awful. Was wwtl's the worse ever on SI? Not by a long shot. I don't think you have been reading here since 2002. I have read some experience's here that are so outrageously horrible you wouldn't think they actually happened. But, they did.

OTOH, everyone's own personal story is the worst...to them.

Was wwtl's the worse ever on SI? Not by a long shot. I don't think you have been reading here since 2002. I have read some experience's here that are so outrageously horrible you wouldn't think they actually happened. But, they did.

SisterMilkshake

What got to me was the OM’s dedication to humiliating the husband and the wife not having a problem with it. To me that’s the worst. You can have some illicit fun without going there. IMHO Spaceghost had nothing to forgive when compaired to Waitedwaytoolong.

I haven’t been here nearly as long as you. Maybe you can start a thread of the all-time worst affairs?

EDIT:

The answer is because you have more to forgive than about any other man on this site.

[This message edited by Graywolf at 8:11 AM, August 26th (Friday)]

I'm new here so I have hesitated to post but I've been following this thread from the beginning and after reading some of the comments, I have some of my own:

I'm confused by some of SisterMilkshake's posts. In navigating around these forums, I often see and appreciate the wisdom and experience of the old-timers but in this instance, I see a definite bias towards the WS. So what if she's reading here? It's her choice to do so and some of it isn't going to be nice.

It's been FIVE YEARS and WWTL is still struggling. What I don't understand is this: if his wife is truly remorseful and interested in HIS healing as opposed to HER future, why is she having such a hard time allowing the separation? Let me rephrase that...I understand why she's having a hard time seeing a possible end to her marriage but this isn't about her. She made a horrific mistake and now she's remorseful (I'm still not 100% convinced about that but anyway). Sometimes remorse isn't enough. Sometimes there's no way to undo what you've done. When that's the case, if you truly care about your spouse, you let him go. You don't enlist the kids to exhort your betrayed to stay.

I agree with Sister. You haven't been here very long, I guess, but there have been far worse wayward spouses that this particular ww.

NatureGirls exwh is, imo, the worst. Sick,pedophile,abusive,hold his kids while he jacks it to porn, etc.

I do think the humiliation this particular OM was causing the OP is awful. And for his wife to allow it, even more awful.

OP...you tried to R with a ww who, for whatever reason, continued to lie to you about specific details for five years. Imo, you have every right to be done. I did mention, earlier in this thread, that because you hadn't been communicating your feelings with your ww, that maybe you should try that, and see if you could reconcile. But considering she came clean about a major detail recently, I've changed my mind on that. I feel bad for his wife, but I also have to wonder, if she has been reading here for awhile, why didn't she understand she needed to be completely honest? Why not make an account and seek help? It seems she has decided to pick and choose what she wanted to gain from this site..and all it resulted in is her trying to make OP feel bad for not forgiving...never mind the small fact she was still lying to him...

File. Divorce her. Maybe down the road, you can date her, if you feel she's grown up some. But don't separate and date...that might sound fun..but it just doesn't seem like that's the kind of man you want to be. You're clearly a good man. Do the right thing for yourself.

I'm confused by some of SisterMilkshake's posts. In navigating around these forums, I often see and appreciate the wisdom and experience of the old-timers but in this instance, I see a definite bias towards the WS.

I can understand how you may feel I have a "bias" towards WS's. When I first joined SI I wouldn't even read the Wayward forum. I generalized all WS's as the same. I pretty much "hated" all Waywards. However, as I have healed, and having a very remorseful FWH, I have learned not to generalize all WS's. There are many that are sincerely remorseful. There are many that are so wise and are so willing to reach out and help BS's even knowing that they may be treated horribly by the BS's on these forums. I am at a point in my healing that I can see the WS's as real human beings and there is more to them than just being WS's. I count many FWS's as my friends here at SI. Proud to call them "friend". I will defend a WS if I feel they are being mistreated or unfairly judged. Call it a bias if you like, I like to call it being authentic.

I don't know wwtl's WW. She hasn't posted here. But, wwtl believes and feels that his WW is genuinely remorseful. I believe wwtl. He is the one that would know. Who the eff am I to judge his WW?

As far as calling his WW names, this is from the Guidelines of SI:

4. FLAMING & ATTACKING: Please refrain from attacking another member, publicly or by using the SI.com Private Message feature. Do not bait or call out others. This includes members and non-members.

Thanks for responding, SisterMilkShake. I don't feel that you have a bias towards all WSs...just this particular one. I'm also not commenting on her character (outside of the cheating) one way or another...I just don't think she is as remorseful as WWTL thinks she is. As you say, he knows best. But does he? I'm sure she feels bad about what she did but it continues to be about her rather than about him.

For whatever reason, she held on to one key piece of truth until now. For me the fact that it didn't hurt WWTL is moot. She made him sleep in a bed (the headboard is part of the bed ) where she swore the OM hadn't been but oh look...he was there after all. Imagine the damage if WWTL hadn't already known. She told her daughters under the guise of coming clean but instead of telling them that while she hopes to R, the ultimate outcome of the marriage is unknown, she's allowed them to join the "save M at all costs brigade". The way I read it, all three women are now emotionally blackmailing WWTL to stay. Shitty move.

Perhaps I'm being a bit harsh here because as you also said, we haven't heard from Mrs. WWTL. Each story has two sides. Even so, this is the deal breaker for me: WWTL has made it very clear that he is still not able to make peace with the affair. If she is truly remorseful, then she has done everything humanly possible to help him. It's still not enough so all that's left to do is to let him go. If that's what he needs at this point and she's still hoping he'll just get over it and stay, is she truly remorseful? Her happiness is still more important than his, it seems...

I think I need to respond here to a few things.

My wife is not a horrible person. She did do a horrible thing. There is not a day that goes by that she does not regret it. I am not going to get into a WS rating system, but from what I have read here she is far from the worst. This was a 6 or 3 week period depending how you look at it that doesn't define who she is. This guy weaseled into to her head and had her do things that in a million years she or I never thought she could do.She was not some wife that was an easy piece of ass. She was strong, beautiful and a good person. I am sure that this is what made her such a trophy for him. Another poster mentioned that I was a the guy who owned the big house and he was the one who worked on it. Humiliating her was a way fro him to get back on all the guys whose big house he worked on. Not to give her a pass as she was a willing participant. She was so deep into the trees she couldn't see the forest of what this was.

As to her fighting to stay married. I Get it. We love each other and she really believes we could make work. She also fucked up big time. Every time I fuck up something I try to fix it? thats is a natural reaction. Someone mentioned my kids. They are adult women and are not trying to hold the family together because she roped them into it. What kids want their parents to split in a situation like this?

OK, so why am I leaving after this defense. When I look at her I just can't get the thoughts out of my head of what she did. She could cure cancer and I still don't think I could. It plays in my head over and over. I just remained so pissed off and I don't want to be pissed off anymore. Maybe this works, maybe it doesn't. Maybe I find someone who makes me happier, and maybe I realize she and our history trumps the feelings someone new would give me.

I feel like I have been in limbo too long and need to find some happiness. I thank you guys for your support.

It's clear from the way you keep defending her, that you still love her very much.

But...sometimes...love Just isn't enough.

Or...you could find a good IC and try EMDR. It has worked for many BS's here that couldn't get the images out of their minds, too. They use EMDR on vets with PTSD and it is shown to work very, very well. On the one hand, I do feel you love your wife. On the other hand I feel like you want to go out and sow some wild oats. It seems to me you may feel like you are entitled to that.

eta: to clarify

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 5:53 PM, August 25th (Thursday)]

I get it. My H was exactly like you. (BTW, I consider my affair much much worse than your wife's, not that that matters).

My H still loved me. He would say very much. But he simply could not stay married to me after the lying, sneaking, and extramarital sex. He wouldn't have even considered me a "bad person"---nor a "good person who did a bad thing." Just a person who did something he could not reconcile with, either with me OR with himself if he stayed married.

WWTL, you don't need me or anyone else to validate your decision, but you do not need to justify your decision either. Love is certainly not enough---and sometimes years of history and a family together aren't either.

WWTL,

Sometimes when your artery is severed, you bleed out, no matter how hard to try to compress the wound. I feel for you man. It really sucks.

My unsolicited advice is basic this - no matter how well intentioned everyone on this thread may be telling you to do this or do that, in the end you need to do what YOU think you need to do. Don't let some sniping poster(s) try to belittle you into this way or that. Do what YOU need to do.

But do it. Do something.

As you well know, inaction sucks >>>> action, even if it might be the wrong action.

Limbo is hell. You've been living there far too long for your health.

This is the thing. wwtl keeps saying he loves his WW. Do we believe that? I think probably most of us do.

Now, if wwtl was saying he didn't love his WW, I don't think anyone would be suggesting other options. At least I know I wouldn't. If you don't love someone, what is the point? Yes, limbo is hell. There are so many that have to live in limbo to protect their financial and/or parental rights (to protect their children, too). wwtl is "lucky" that he doesn't find himself in that situation.

If you go back to many of wwtl's posts he has said at least twice that he loves his ww he just can't get the images out of his mind. I kind of missed the "images" part. Now it sticks out to me. What do we recommend BS's to do if they are afflicted with these horrible images and love their spouse? We recommend EMDR. You aren't leaving until October. You most likely could get in a few EMDR sessions before you leave.

Call me a fucking romantic. (Ain't I got a way with words?) So sue me! I believe in love. Yes, even after this fucking quagmire of suckyness I have waded through, I still believe in love. I can understand your emotional exhaustion at this point, wwtl. I agree that love is not enough, but I believe that love should be given every chance to survive.

I don't feel anyone is going to sway wwtl one way or the other. If his DD's can't, if his WW, whom he professes to love, can't sway him, don't worry, folks. Certainly not some random chick on a surviving infidelity forum board is going to change his mind to give it a chance before he leaves. Woot woot, yay divorce! Fuck love!

I feel now that you want to go away to rugsweep. You don't have the energy to do any kind of work on healing yourself. If you leave you're leaving behind your biggest triggers. Throw in some external validation and ego kibbles and you got a whole lot of rugsweeping going on. I really do hope you continue with IC and at least look into EMDR.

Because, wwtl, where ever you go, there you will be.

eta: to fix comma's... too many? too few? grammar police?

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 9:57 PM, August 25th (Thursday)]