SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

SW,

Here are a few comments:

On the Letter

Your AP has asked for no contact. If you and your husband send a letter then it could be seen as harassment. Focusing on the AP is something that many betrayeds do after DDay. It becomes a point of focus because of the inner feelings which basically boil down to the question "Why was I not enough?"

There is no answer to that, because the betrayed is focusing on what they believe are inadequacies in the relationship, but the truth really boils down to this: It had nothing to do with if the BS was enough, or not... It boils down to we were so broken and screwed up that we grabbed on to the nearest willing body to try to sate what need to be lacking within us. Unfortunately nothing fills that emptiness.

You are still in sprint mode trying to get everything setup and taken care of so that you two heal and move on.

Quit focusing on your AP, because its not about him. You have to come to a deep understanding that your choice of AP wasn't anything special. If he had been blessed with strong boundaries, you would have simply moved on and found another warm body to use in order to fill that black hole of needs inside of you.

While this sound good on the surface, a NC letter doesn't mean shit if the wayward still wants to contact the AP. With all the tech available waywards can do shit loads of stealth in order to keep an affair going.

Personally I saw your need for a NC letter coming from you as a "Grand Gesture" to show your husband that you are putting on paper the rejection of the AP. Here is the rub after dday WORDs don't mean shit, its all in the actions.

No contact letters that take the AP to task for their actions are pretty much a mental vomit and just show that the person who is writing it is still mentally tangled up with the AP.

The best no contact letters are simple direct statements that include the following basic info:

I hurt many people doing what I did

I telling you that contact is being cut off

If you do contact I will show my spouse

Please respect my wishes.

No blame the AP, no fire and brimstone falling down on them, no goodbyes, no I'm sorry, just the fact all contact has ended and you are just formalizing it in writing.

On the comment

In the fallout after an affair comes to the surface everything you do, say, think comes under the microscope.

It goes with the whole mindfuck that we put on our BS when they wonder about the whole "Why am I not enough." You were thinking about why was the letter so important, as we pointed out the AP had already asked for NC but yet you were still lingering on the thoughts of putting this letter together to send out to somehow prove to your husband that its over.

Again, the statement you made about someone pining for you reeks of star crossed lovers doomed to never be together, or that the fates have made it that you have been trapped by circumstances.

Your BS opened up to you about that statement because you put it forth about the AP, who in reality was nothing than a handy penis, and the man who vowed to love you is wondering why those thoughts don't apply to him. It speaks to the deep hurt which he is going through.

Finally you won't be able to explain that feeling to him because its foreign to him. Its like trying to explain to my wife about putting up a 5th of rum to my lips and chugging 1/2 because I needed it inside me just to make me feel that I would be able to handle life.

If he wants to see them then show him. I know its hard but keeping them from him will only make him think you are still lying.

Hi Swinters.

I am not responding to anything specific.

I just wanted to offer you some unsolicited encouragement. You have been very brave, facing your husband as well as yourself and your problems.

You are doing great. Keep it up!!!

When he asked why I felt the need to be desired by anyone but him:

"Because I have always been that way. It is a huge "issue" of mine. The need to be found desirable, attractive, interesting, fascinating. It's a kind of narcissism. I've felt that way my whole life. It's something I need to work on in therapy. It doesn't matter who it is that sees me that way. I should be content knowing that God sees me that way. But I am broken and have no self esteem and I look for it in the way others see me.

Hi Swinters. It's good that you can recognize that flaw within yourself. Don't delay on dealing with that issue.

Your bh rightfully found your honest statement alarming. I have heard older women over the years refer to women who like to draw a lot of attention to themselves are not to be trusted and should be watched skeptically.

A need for attention on yourself as desirable can lead to dark paths - like infidelity. Aggressively confront all traits that threaten your goal to be loyal.

As a bs, I too cringed when I read what you said about th AP. I thought there is that ego wanting to be fed. It was a kick to your BS gut. This gives you great information on where to start your work.

Earlier I wrote that for me, I found it hard to talk with my WS in the beginning because of the differences in how we see the affair. Often people say things that don't make any sense or tell the bs the lies they told themselves in order to have the affair. It is so hard to watch your spouse go through this withdrawal phase.

I remember a friend asked her husband about the AP and he said she was nice because she gave him a blow job. That maybe "nice" in the mind of the WS but the BS sees the AP as someone who attacked the family that they love. The AP is no friend of the BS in any matter.

Try to be sensitive to your spouse and he will become more sensitive to you. Again this will take time and patience on both sides. Hugs to you!

Please help me help him understand what it's like to have such low self-esteem that you want to be wanted even though you don't want every person who wants you.

It just takes time for it to sink in. They don't get it anymore than we understand the pain that we have caused them. It just isn't something that is easily comprehended. The honesty is often a hard pill to swallow, but the healing can't be done without it. I remember describing this to BH, not feeling worth anything unless I had an AP telling me so. BH said, "How sad." I'm pretty sure he meant it as an insult, but to me it was just a statement of fact. "Yes. It is sad." I have to do this hard, honest work no matter how much it hurts BH.

Focus, focus, focus. Yes, there are some things that you can do to make this easier on BS. Read the How to Help your Spouse book for that. But ultimately your focus should not be on BS or AP, but on you. What has happened in your life that made you like this? What can you do to be better?

Just checking in. I hope you are both doing better. I am thinking of both of you. Please stay strong and support your BH.

Keep reminding yourself that it is a very long journey.....2-5 years as they say.

I am 3 years out and it still hurts but we are in a better place and we both see a happy future. I wish you both peace and happiness.

Heart, Dwtl, and deephurt,

Thank you for your feedback.

I guess making that comment and then saying that "I always have to feel like everyone wants me or desires me" was a bit of hyperbole. Almost like I am trying so hard to find out what my issues are that I am inflating them to try and explain them better. I really don't care if most people don't find me desirable. I don't go out and meet the world with the expectation, hope, or need to be loved and wanted by everyone I meet. That would be true axis II personality disorder material. And I know I am not that. Too many therapists (including current) have told me I am not. Yes, I have self esteem issues, and yes, I have issues with depression and anxiety and history of substance abuse, and yes I am a passionate person who feels things in very deep and at times less than stable ways, but I don't have a personality disorder. I have a tendency towards narcissism because I need my ego fed more than I should. I have a tendency towards borderline because I have a flair for drama. I even have a flair for schizoaffective disorder probably, since at times I want to be alone. But we all have these tendencies to an extent, and it's our responsibilities if we want to be healthier, more positive and productive people, to move away from these extremes as we move toward wholeness.

Anyway, H knows it all now. As of last night he has read all the texts. Now it's time to dig and sort and try and make some sense out of the crumbled pile of rocks and debris that used to be our marriage. It SUCKS. It is truly heartbreaking. And I'm getting to a more angry stage too, which is entirely directed at me. I had another few moments last night in bed where the utter sadness and sense of loss and remorse washed over me like ocean waves crashing again and again on me. I couldn't get my feet under me after being knocked down before anothe wave would hit. I can SEE it now. I can see and feel the devastation and humiliation and bereavement I have caused my H. I can't ever get what we had back. I stole from him and gave to someone else something I had no right to take and give away. I can't ever give that back. I will never be the same woman I used to be to him. He will never be able to look at me again and think this is my partner who will never hurt me; I am no longer his safe haven, our marriage is no longer sacred. So now we build a new marriage, a new sacred marriage based on moving forward from march 2017. Everything must change. I know I am willing to do whatever it takes. No matter how much ugliness I have to confront in the mirror on the way.

Thank you also Barcher, and sorrowfulmate. There's so many of you that have helped me.

Swinters

As a BH I think you did the right thing. As many replies have said, we all want information for much the same reason but the level of detail is very personal.

In your case your BS asked to see the texts and that was your cue to do what you did; let him see them and warn him that they would hurt.

As for anger towards the AP, obviously I don't know you personally but as a general point the AP tends to be the focus of the initial rage because it has to be vented somewhere and they are the safest outlet because there is no relationship to be rebuilt with them, quite the opposite.

Before, I would have imagined that in my situation I would have jumped on a plane and gone and beat the living crap out the guy (and don't imagine that I don't have the odd daydream about it), but the reality is that in most cases the BS comes to see quickly that there is nothing to be gained and the AP is not even worth the bother. Hopefully that's the way your situation will move.

[This message edited by chelsea9 at 10:27 AM, April 19th (Wednesday)]

I know it seems hopeless right now, but this was a very necessary step for your H and you.

As a side note the post was probably taken out of context. I think it would be a reasonable boundary to ask him to not read your posts. One of the really big things that WS need to learn to be successful in R is thinking about certain actions and how they would/could trigger their BS. You need to ultra aware of words and deeds that your husband will see and hear. Everything will be analyzed despite the intent. Intent is important. While your post was not intended to be about your thinking about OM (Indifference, not hate) your husband can't trust that your intentions were noble. He has too many recent examples fresh in his mind to give you that kind of trust/benefit of doubt.

My W and I made an agreement. She would not read my SI posts. If she wanted to know what I was thinking or feeling she had to ask me.

No shortcuts. No easy out around that. Communicate like a M couple. No exceptions.

Also your husband is going to be asking about details for a long time. Please, please be patient with him. He needs to ask and discuss many aspects of this many times before his mind will allow him some peace.

I know this feels like it worse. Many R have to hit rock bottom before they become successful. Once the descent stops the only direction to move is up.

I have a tendency towards borderline because I have a flair for drama

I am not a psychologist, but in my experience with people affected by BPD... I have never heard one of them admit a mistake and apologize. You are not like that. Someone with BPD could not undergo the transformation in attitude that you have made since coming to SI.

It SUCKS.

If you have told your husband everything, that's a really good first step. Now, you need to work on you... I know that you are already doing that.

I know that it sucks and that you feel awful. You have done a lot of great work, very hard work. That took courage and fortitude. Keep it up!

I know you don't like me to post, but I was catching up on your story.

You are a dr, do you worry about being exposed by former SO, or his wife ( He has one or no?)

This is something OW in my situation is afraid of exposure. She is NOT a Dr, she's a sit at home and live off of her older husband's money type. But exposure is their only fear (her husband likes her to sleep with married men)

So do you fear this in your profession?

Her husband fears their lifestyle ( They are sick, not the same as you at all) because he is in the public eye, yet he's a freak who likes to see his wife have sex with other women's husbands.

I'm rambling. Question was about fear I your job etc. Is it ok I posted?

And I started reading the texts, but I lost interest. It was like reading high school jealousy drama.

She was constantly jealous of me after finding my fb page. Funny how 5 weeks in and she was that jealous. I found her insecurities leaking out in text satisfying eventually.

I hope you guys find peace and you have changed a lot. So You are going to make it. He will heal in time if you stay as is

i can see BHs point of view on the post about AP even if his reading of it was not what you were thinking or intending when writing. If I were in his position I would want to know that you weren't even wasting one second of your brain power thinking about the AP. I'd be trying to determine if I was just plan B that you've turned to because of rejection or if the smart woman I once knew finally realized that there never really was a future with the OM even before his rejection. Spending even 1 minute wondering what AP is thinking doesn't support the Latter. Time To focus 100% on BH and no one else, unless of course you truly are not interested in R.

Hoping for the best for both of you.

{{{swinters}}}

Ah PuckQueen, my old nemesis, my new friend. Of course you can post!!

No I don't worry about him trying to ruin my name. He can't really ruin mine without ruining his. It's the reason I held back when I was tempted to shout from the rooftops, "do NOT hire this scumbag!" Because incriminating him incriminates me. And the truth is, both of us made a decision to do what we did.

I also just don't think it's worth it to him to try and spread nastiness around about me. He seems to want to wash his hands of it, which I am glad about.

Your H's OW and her H sound psycho.

Lol swingers, they are.

But they have no remorse, like you. Like my husband. .I honestly believe you both can heal, with as honest and remorseful as you are being now.

You have lifted yourself way up out of the fog you were in and changed your outlook.

I'm proud to see that, It makes me happy and gives hope to people searching for their way still.

There's the "obvious" things about your post that your BS sees and feels, but there's more.

BS is nothing like you. He doesn't have a huge overpowering need to be in control and manipulate others to fill the void with sexual tension, attention, flirting etc. You've admitted that issue which is great, but your BS can not wrap his brain around that, as most people without that condition can not. It's a real thing.

I would strongly urge you to sit with your void, allow it to wash over you. You won't die, no matter how bad it feels. Sometimes the best way to get rid of the monster in the closet is to embrace it. When you do that (and each subsequent time) it loses a little more power when you learn you are actually enough just as you, warts and all.

Your AP simply spotted your weakness and exploited it to get what he wanted. There was nothing special about him

. Exactly. Nothing special. Which goes both ways. A good way to be happy with what you have is to be honest with yourself and to learn how to appreciate what you have. You were nothing special to him. You are something special to your husband. You also spotted his weakness, which most likely is your weakness. Needing outside validation. You too exploited him. If you see it the way this was quoted, then you will look at yourself as a victim. If you see it as it is-you used each other and exploited each other, then you can work on why you need so much attention and outside validation.

There isn't much to say to your husband. He probably doesn't even realize it but the bigger issue with him is your need for outside validation. As long as you want any other man besides your husband to want you- you will be unsafe for/to your husband.

Honestly what you typed and told him is huge huge part of being honest, transparent, vulnerable and owning it. It doesn't get much uglier than that or scarier in admitting to your spouse that you need that validation so badly you were willing to cheat for it. Now, the hard work. Being enough for yourself. This hurt him, but it is a giant leap in the direction you need to go with him. People who are self confident are not going to understand it. It is going to take some time for him to work the mental gymnastics. But, when he does he will understand so much more and he will begin to really know deep down that this was never about him and only about your turning point in how broken you have been your entire life. My wife and I use the goldfish analogy to understand this. People like us just keep eating everything in site. Nothing will fill us up. Anything works- healthy and unhealthy. We eat till we can actually kill ourselves with bloating. Like goldfish. No matter who it is. They will never be enough. We have to turn it around and become something else. Be enough for ourselves.