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Gently, right now you are a monster to him. What you did to him was monstrous. You may not be that person anymore but he will need a lot more time to see you as anything different.

I am three years from DDay and still see my wh as a monster sometimes. It comes and goes. He needs time and remorse from you to be able to start to heal.

His pain is going to be difficult to watch but you will need to be strong and show him what you are doing to be a safe partner for him.

I have had a little trouble in the past reading your posts because you have sounded selfish to me. Having an a is selfish and all eastwards are selfish when in the a.

I have seen some changes in your thought process however, the first post of this thread also sounded selfish to me.

It's time to realize just how much pain your actions and choices have caused your bh, put aside your fear of the outcome, do what he needs and show your full remorse.

I can feel the pain that your husband is feeling just from the statement he made. Have patience and be there for him.

It is complete truth that roller coaster is hell. He will be okay one minute and a mess the next. He most likely hasn't reached the true anger stage yet.

I wish you both the best and I hope you both can find a way to be happy together

Here's where I am:

I am devastated by the destruction I have caused my H and our M. My heart feels like it is being squashed by a ten-ton weight. And I know that my H is feeling 100 times worse. We are both exhausted physically and emotionally. I am on antibiotics and prednisone for lymphangitis in my neck, which I feel resulted from all the stress of the last month. He is sick too in a million different ways.

I am a monster. In every sense of the word. All of the affirmation I sought and thought that I received from my A is now nonexistent. It was always a lie. I am not a wonderful person, mother, doctor. I am not beautiful and interesting. I am a monster. I put my own selfish desires above my husband's life. Yes, life. He doesn't want to live anymore. My actions have caused this amazing man to think he isn't worthy of the skin he's in. All of those words of affirmation I needed so desperately were all lies, and the only words I am worthy of are selfish, hateful, deceitful, ugly. Monster.

This is so much worse than D day. It's exactly 4 weeks later and the hope I had before is all but gone. The remnant of self esteem and self respect I had then, as a result of false affirmation by another lying monster, is gone. I do not now nor did I ever, deserve the love of this man, my husband. Now he is seeing that. And I can't imagine him being able to stand being with me anymore now that he sees the real person he married. I think he is horrified that he had such bad judgment. But now there are children, and he won't leave easily because he is a wonderful father and worries too much about what a broken home will do to them. I have no doubt that if we were childless I would have already lost him.

I'm still going forward. I'm still existing. I'm still able to feed my children and make sure they are safe. That's about al I am capable of right now. Please keep praying for us and or children. And please keep posting because this is my only lifeline.

Believe it or not, him reading those texts and emails is a step in the right direction. Full honestly and transparency is what he needs to be able to begin to trust

If you no longer feel any fondness towards ap, don't think of that time as special, are no longer cheating or lying and have it broken nc, you are no longer acting like a monster.

Try to put aside your shame for what you did and reassure you bh that he is a wonderful person, he hold zero blame for your cheating. Let him know that you will be doing everything you can to find out what is wrong with you that you could do something like that to him. It helps. You may not see it at first but it will help if you keep doing the work.

I feel like this is going to take a while for him to get to a place where he can hear you. He can only hear his pain right now. Give him time and keep being there for him. If he tells you he wants to be alone, let him be alone. Just keep reassuring him that you love him and only want him.

This is going to be a long, painful journey but it will be worth it if you can save your m.

Keep reminding yourself to let go of the outcome, you have no control over what he wants to do in the end, you can only keep reassuring him that you are sorry and you want him.

Oh Swinters - you have shown such tremendous growth even in the time of the beginning to the now from this posting. Take some pride in it.

Yes, what you did was awful. And now you know that there are no ego kibbles worthy of the aftermath and carnage caused by your actions. Our lives are forever changed by these activities but we are nothing if we are not resilient. And we must take these times in life and come out better than before.

Mr. ISurvived and I are five months out and I can tell you at 4 weeks it was just awful. But we had a couple of books behind us and it helped in our healing. One of the books that was not A related but helpful is Rising Strong by Brene Brown. It really stopped us in our tracks and helped us to dig deeply into our respective behaviors and gain a lot of compassion for each other. Yep - that's right, it helped me, the BS gain compassion for Mr. ISurvived. We cried, we talked, we opened up about ourselves in ways we had never before. And we keep that book's advice in our repertoire and communication with each other.

This road is not a straight line up. It is jagged and dips down quite a bit. Just recently I had an angry moment greater than I have ever had in my life. Do you know why? Because Mr. ISurvived was hiding information from me that I tried several times to extract. He told me he kept it from me to protect me. WRONG. He kept it from me to protect himself and it was critical information for us to help our DD heal. I went crazy and told him I hated him (among other things). I tell you this because I am hopeful that you can avoid some of the pitfalls from our experience.

Be prepared - this will happen. It gets reduced by truth, by being forthcoming, by allowing your BS to understand the scope of the A. He needs to trust you - which is something you will have to work to earn now and hiding things from him will be counterproductive to your relationship. Whether or not you stay together, you still deserve a dignified relationship and your children deserve dignified parents.

Hopefully this work will help you come together rather than pull apart. I will tell you too that had it not been for our DD who is a teenager, we probably would not be together. Rather than look at this as a negative, I see it as a gift. We have an opportunity to be stronger now. We have to work at it always. If we do not, if one of us is not willing to do the work and if Mr. ISurvived oversteps boundaries again, then we will not make it. At least we will know how hard we tried.

Its still very early for you both. Dday only being a month ago. Emotions are still high and will be for a while.

Keep the lines of communication open. Talk when he wants to talk, listen when he wants to be heard. If you havent already, think about seeing a counselor your H would also benefit greatly.

It takes time to heal and recover from an A. There is no fast forwarding. Read all you can on healing and how to help your H heal.

Make sure he knows everything. You don't want either of you to go through this again.

The day I read the texts, I told him he was a monster. I used that exact word. At the time, I felt like only a monster would be capable of willfully and repeatedly abusing the trust and love of the person they claim to love dearly.

Once the initial shock abated somewhat, I started to feel that although I still considered the lying and cheating the same way I did at first, i did not really believe he was a monster. I try to be honest with myself, and in doing so, I had to acknowledge to myself (not necessarily to him though) that he was not what I would consider an evil person, he did have some good qualities.

Hopefully your BH will eventually be able to recognize your good qualities also. That won't necessarily mean that he will be willing to try to open up to you again, as is his right.

I think that for me, DDay being the same day I read the texts was better than having read them weeks or months later. I can see how that would cause some major issues, but still people have to do things like that in their own time and according to what they think is best for them.

I've read a lot of your posts and I am impressed with how gracefully you are handling the advice you are getting here and how you seem to be willing to face your demons as you recognize them and work on changing what you need to change. You won't become a new and improved version of yourself overnight, but I think you are on your way. I pray for hope and healing for both of you.

swinters,

I hear you, and you've received excellent advice from others far more experienced than I. So, I'll repeat my earlier in support for the effort you're making:

Strength is not giving in to fear, doubt, and pain

I think you feel all you have right now is the last three, an de I understand that. But, he hasn't left or asked you to, and today is here.

Keep working to be the best you, you can be, and for you H and M. Be strong.

Best wishes -- IDK

He said "because I don't KNOW everything." I'm struggling with this one. He does know everything,

No, he doesn't. You think he does, but he doesn't. Why? Because you know everything and you are looking at it from your viewpoint. He has basic fact. You shared a whole other life with someone else that he wasn't part of when you were MARRIED.

Isn't there a point where a BS can have almost a voyeuristic desire to know EVERY LITTLE THING?

Maybe, if they were years out. His is normal.

Someone posted a couple of days ago that she, a BS, caught herself getting caught up in the morbid fascination of the details and her husband would calmly ask her why she's asking about "x" and would it help her in her healing to know it, and many times she realized that no, it wouldn't help, and she would let it go.

How far out was she? Again everyone is different in everything. He may need to know. My wife needed to know everything 1. because she is detail oriented. 2. because she wanted to know every piece to the puzzle. 3. because she wanted to dispell as much as possible that was shared intimately between AP and I. The more she knew the less intimate the affair was for her between AP and I. I was happy to oblige. AP was thrown under the bus to bring my wife where she belonged. She actually used the info in her letters and when she saw her. Just another way of showing the AP up. Showing her that "see, nothing special about you two now. I know everything. There is nothing intimate left." This was very important to her. My wife wanted everything. What music played at the bar. What we drank. What was said. Everything.

Again, I think it matters on how far out and if they have or have not gotten the details.

I learned it's called pain-shopping.

I don't think it is called pain shopping till they do it over and over and over again. He hasn't even done it once. This isn't pain shopping in your husband's need. This is knowledge. Months from now and he is still asking. Could just be the cycle of asking the same questions. Years from now, I can see that as pain shopping.

I just feel like if he sees how into it I was too that he'll leave me.

You are going to need to let go of that fear and give up the control. Do you really want him to stay with you, when he really doesn't know? Do you really want to manipulate the man you love and want to be married to for the rest of your life? Your goal is remorse and authenticity. Less selfishness. If there is no chance of physical abuse. Let him see after Sunday. Let your children have their day.

You aren't a monster. You were a monster. You aren't a monster anymore. Spend the rest of your life showing everyone and yourself that.

The remnant of self esteem and self respect

can still be there and growing by making the right choices. If you love something set it free type of choices. Give that gift and gain some self esteem and respect by it.

As a BS, it is very painful to read and relive these devastating feelings. I know how I just wanted to die. The pain is just so bad. You go to sleep and wake up thinking it was the worst nightmare, and then it hits you like a ton of bricks that yes indeed your beloved betrayed you.

The best you can do for him now is be there for him when he needs your support. Hug him when he will let you. Let him know he is the man you want. Tell him the truth.... right now he has zero reason to trust you. If you lie.... when he finds out... you will start at zero again.

It is hard for Bs to talk with the WS at times because it sounds like the WS is on a different planet. On our planet, we do not cheat. Loyalty is a given. Right now, he is asking who the hell is this person?

Work on you. Read the book Not Just Friends and share it with him if possible. Set boundaries and keep them. Love your family and get well. Read how to help your spouse heal.

You must get yourself together. You can do this.

***As a member***

Great post by zug. Read it A LOT.

Strength, it's not going to be easy.

[This message edited by 5454real at 7:09 PM, April 15th (Saturday)]

BS here.

Swinters you did well. The minute you finally put your H needs above your own and allowed him to see those messages was huge! You are NOT a monster....you did horrific things, but you are not a monster.

Let me tell you a little secret. I have called my H so much worse than that and I even saw one of his nasty a** OW naked pics she sent him. And not just a naked pic but an obscene gesture naked pic so....ya. :barf

This time in your marriage will be hell. For both of you. But if you keep working on what is broken inside you and stand by your H during the times he calls you a monster and more than likely much much worse, then slowly things start getting better.

I am 2 1/2 years out and just starting to feel like a small portion of my old self so there are no shortcuts but to walk beside each other every day and support him anyway you can. You can prolong the misery by making this about you. So please don't. It's. no longer about you. It's about him. You DO need to go to IC and fix your coping strategy of infidelity but when s*** hits the fan, be there for him even if it's uncomfortable, even if you are scared he won't want you anymore etc. Ask him what he needs and then do it.

I stayed. Against the odds of finding out about multiple A's I stayed and the reason why is because my H has done the hard work to prove his safety to me. Daily. 24/7 with no exception and it's exhausting for him and I don't care 🤗 This is what it takes and he wants this marriage bad enough that he will do anything I need. And despite all the terrible things I have called him over the two years and the glass of milk o threw at him and etc etc we are now in a really good place.

There IS hope for your marriage to be beautiful after infidelity.

First of all, thank you to all of you who have been standing by us through all of this and offering your support.

The end of the day was much better today. We sat on the couch and looked each other in the eye and said hard things to each other but things that needed to be said. He apologized for calling me a monster. I told him to stop apologizing because everything he has said has been honest and warranted. I am trying my best to be open and honest and transparent. I am taking deep breaths often and not allowing myself to be defensive or self-pitying. The conversation went well. There were tears but there was also hope. We were rational, calm, and loving toward each other. I have some hope again but my hope is less and less about how he sees me and more and more about him healing.

He wants to write AP a letter. He says that's the only way he can think of to get everything off his chest and unload on him. He asked my opinion about it. I said it was up to him but we discussed the positives and potential negatives of doing so. He mentioned whether I was going to write a letter and I said absolutely not, that would be breaking NC. I know in NJF and ATA they say a letter for closure is ok as long as the faithful spouse reads it and approves. I think it might be good for H to see me write in words to AP that I regret what happened, that I never want to see him again, and, most importantly, that I love my H and am doing everything I can to reconcile and heal our marriage. I think me writing that and my H delivering it to his house or mailbox or whatever might be very empowering for H. But I know also that my opinion of what makes a "good idea" is completely skewed right now. So what do you guys think?

I've read How to help your spouse cope, Not Just Friends, and After the Affair. I also have just started Earl Wilson's book Steering Clear (about avoiding slippery slopes, establishing boundaries), as recommended by the author of NJF (or was it the author of ATA? Can't remember). I have several other books (I went nuts on Amazon 2 weeks ago and ordered just about every single book that related to infidelity that had 4 or more stars. Any specific recommendation? I need to keep reading and keep learning.

Jacob's letter in the healing library was great. My H read it (without me even knowing) and told me to read it because thats exactly how he feels. I can understand better now why the BS needs to know the details. But I asked him to either read all the texts at once and not keep reading one each day and then falling apart. I don't think that's healthy for anyone. Talk about trickle truth. Anyway, he doesn't know if he wants to read any more or not. My mom called today and regrettably we started talking about the situation. She said "why on earth would you intentionally save those and then LET HIM SEE THEM??" She said "you should delete whatever he hasn't read yet. That's just pointless suffering for him." I had to calmly ask her to NOT GIVE ME ANY MORE ADVICE, especially when her advice called for more lying and covering up. I had to literally put up an immediate wall and say "no more." I refused to hear what else she had to say and I told her why. She said "even showing him those screenshots isn't going to make him think you're telling him everything. How should he believe you haven't deleted other stuff?" It's true, not all the texts that were sent were copied and sent to my email. Just the "juicier" ones. The ones I didn't save were mundane and ordinary. I mean good Lord he read the one where we were undressing each other and having simulated oral sex via text. It doesn't get any worse than that. Except maybe me telling AP that I hadnt felt there was any romance in my life for the last 10 years. That was just as hard for H to take. He said, "you gave to HIM what was supposed to be mine. You never said things like that to me." I looked him in the eyes and said, "you are right. That's exactly what I did, and it was so wrong and I will regret it for as long as I live." I tried explaining the affair mentality of forbidden fruit and the excitement of being in another secret world, and how it's all FALSE, but I know he didn't believe me. He said "I know you still think about him and wish you could be with him." I did my best to show him the evidence for the contrary. AlI I can say is I am literally holding nothing back at this point. What he wants to read is his to read. I've called Verizon who said since they were iMessages they can't do anything about it, it's an Apple issue. Called Apple who said since I hadn't backed up to cloud or iTunes, there was no way to get those texts back.

Any other ideas for establishing full transparency? I already do face time with him when I'm out, he can see where I am via GPS tracking. I take photos of where I am, and the empty passenger seat of my car and send them to him. I feel like I will never take a relaxing drive again. Sorry I let the self-concern slip in there. Forget that last part. I will do whatever it takes for as long as it takes. I have deeply injured my most valued and precious partner in life and I'm going to do everything I can to make it better for him, to relieve his anxiety and pain as best I can.

[This message edited by swinters at 10:53 PM, April 15th (Saturday)]

Great job in navigating this. Even better at establishing boundaries with your mother. We found this site late. My first post was a letter my wife asked me to write for the APs. She wrote one as well. Since, we found this site late it served as our NC letter. We sent it after we changed a few things in my letter. At that point. Which would be my joining date the APs were not leaving us alone. Just continued to cause their clique drama. The letter also served another purpose for my wife and I. It showed the APs that there was no way in Hell or any doubt to be left in their minds that I wanted anything to do with them or though fondly of the affair or them. I see that a lot here; APs thinking that their AP still might think of them and want to be with them. That the AP/WS is just staying for money or kids. I think a clear message keeps some from moving on. But, most importantly it became a position drop in loyalty for the APs that my wife wanted them to know. To keep them from walking around thinking they were all that in my eyes or theirs at her expense.

Trust/full transparency just comes with time. It will never be what you had before. I think you are doing a lot the right way. The only thing to add is that at one point, I used more logic to get my wife to understand. She is a pretty grounded woman and very logical so it seemed to help. I just stated that if I wanted to be with the AP-then I would just be with her. She knows I am an instant gratification type of person and lived for the present. So, she knew that I would never had stayed out of any obligation other than to be with her. Because I valued and loved her more than the drug. My lack of religion/ faith playing a huge part in it as well. There is no afterlife for me and I would have done what was what I wanted in the life I have left. I never would have wasted it on something I wasn't sure of. I would have appealed to the AP leaving her SO for me if that is who I wanted.

I allowed my H to delete the texts after I read everything they sent to each other after I told him to end things with her. I half regret it now, though I'm 99% sure I know their timeline. I don't remember what I called him, but it wasn't pretty.

I comment you for being willing to show him. That takes courage on your end to demonstrate full transparency at the risk of your worries and M. Good on you.

I would have piped in sooner but I was dealing with my own shit this weekend.

I'm glad he didn't do anything that would cause him more problems. I know how tempting it is to just throat punch someone when you feel this way.

I'm not much for prayer, but my thoughts are with you and I'm pulling for you both.

When my kids would mess up/fail in some way and be totally down on themselves (most commonly in sports), I would tell them, "Failing doesn't define your character. What you do with the failure does."

You failed. Maybe even in a way that can be called "monstrous". But you are only a monster if you do nothing about the failure. And you are already showing through your actions that you want to set things right.

The biggest gift you can give yourself and your husband is consistent effort to understand where you failed, what it was deep inside that allowed you to betray your own vows and to take the path to change in ways that will shut down the potential that this could ever happen again. It will help you in grappling with the guilt and shame while building up the potential for your husband to trust you again.

You've taken some very hard steps in that direction. Keep going!

Swinters - you asked for a book. I recommend "Rising Strong" by Brene Brown. It is not about an A. But it is about living an authentic life by taking down our defensive actions (like lying, anger, and so on) to dig into our true feelings. She also gives a framework for moving forward in a new paradigm in relationships.

Mr. ISurvived and I read it at about the same point from d-day as you are now. It brought us so close emotionally and helped us turn the corner. Hopefully you'll read it and we can chat about SFD's!

Keep up the great work!

Zug sums it up so well. I had to know everything.

The letter you and you're husband writes can serve to be your NC letter.

Just make sure you both work on it. He's finally at the anger stage.

I told my wife that i hated the bitch that she was. Not her though. She agreed that she hates that bitch as well.

Time. It just takes time. I'm so sorry you are both going through this. My knowing and wanting to read was an obsession. It eventually subsided when i thought I had everything. It was painful, but so necessary.

I'm glad you're H didn't do anything he'll regret. He wasn't weak, as others have posted, it was intelligent and strong.

I would NOT let him deliver the NC letter himself. Send it certified mail.

I know, as most of us, we'd like to beat the hell out of the AP. But unfortunately, the AP didn't make vows to us. Our spouse did.

My wife's was a policeman. I'm a 2nd degree black belt in taekwondo, but that wouldn't do me any good against a bullet.

[This message edited by Wool94 at 2:28 PM, April 16th (Sunday)]