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Achilles. Whether you want R or D, the path is the same right now.

The only way to truly get her to show if she’s willing to do the work, and actually do it, is to tell her you are moving on until she shows you that she can take the necessary steps to rebuild and help you heal. NOT just say she’ll do it, but actually do it. You have nothing from her right now but words. That’s not enough to rebuild a relationship on.

I said this to you on page 4 of this thread and I’ll repost it again as it’s advice that still stands in light of the longer A.

Please think about doing and saying something like this, and then stop talking to her unless she wants to report on the steps she’s been taking to fix herself. You can’t do them for her.

Take care.

Additional clarification and update.

I have spoken to OBS and she did say he confessed to the affair in 2016. I got a lot of info from her but she seemed strangely unemotional. AP apparently threw WS under the bus and blamed WS for the affair. Even saying that he transferred to another office to get away from WS, As most commented would happen. Apparently the affair stopped at that point until the end of the year when it started again.

When I told WS about calling OBS she got irate at AP for putting everything on her. Kind of funny in a weird sort of way. The truth started coming out. How do I know? She confirmed most of OBS's story and told me things about the affair that were very embarrassing for her that I would never have found out about. Details about what they did and the like.

I told her I needed a detailed written timeline for the affair. She kind of balked a little but I said I needed it or D. She relented. Got phone password and I cloud password.

This all took place at work. sneaking off to an unused room, working late, etc. Nothing physical outside of work.

[This message edited by achilles1101 at 7:39 PM, April 10th (Friday)]

Workplace affairs are impossible to monitor.

You can be the best marriage warden there is but you’ll have zero control.

They were caught once but it didn’t matter.

Plus you can’t believe anything she says.

They work together you’ve got what you’ve got. Not that she couldn’t latch onto someone else unless she fixes herself.

They were caught once but it didn’t matter.

Sort of, both sources say he confessed affair without getting caught. True, splitting hairs I know. since it started again.

This whole thing is the goofiest thing I have ever heard of. You couldn't make this shit up. I guess truth is stranger than fiction

[This message edited by achilles1101 at 9:18 PM, April 10th (Friday)]

Why only asked for a timeline? What about requiring IC starts and she finds a new job and leaves hers if she can’t find one quickly.

Just want to make sure she doesn’t think if she provides a timeline all is forgiven.

The last few days, from talking to OBS to finally getting truth out of WS, has my head spinning. I got what I got and will go from there. I thought that was the most important thing right now so it stuck in my head. She knows the timeline does not mean all is forgiven. I was able to make that clear. I quote the posts here to her frequently. I am finally getting my act together, albeit in fits and starts.

[This message edited by achilles1101 at 9:16 PM, April 11th (Saturday)]

Ok. Sorry if I was harsh. Just worried for you.

Actually, I would say a “rebuilding plan” is the most important thing. What is she going to do to rebuild your relationship and help you heal.

Of course, a timeline of her affair, with not just physical details but emotional ones as well is toward the top of that list.

Ask her next to write a draft of such a plan. Of course what she writes will be insufficient and if she balked at doing the timeline she will probably do the same for this. That hesitation will show that she’s not ready to really do the work of reconciliation.

I’m going to send you a list of example actions that go into such a plan vis Private Message. You can find it by clicking on FORUM in the upper left.

You are getting stronger. Don’t give in. Letting her rug sweep this whole thing is not the recipe for a happy marriage or life.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 7:26 AM, April 11th (Saturday)]

No worries, the flood of information at one time gave me a lot to think about and cut pretty deeply. Learning it went on for that long and ending only to restart was a huge shock. We had several long talks the last couple of days. When I told her about the timeline, she wanted to know what I was going to do with it and expressed concern that I would use it for a divorce, to give to work or her family. I explained the purpose of it and she actually started it the same day. So we shall see.

Thanks for the help

[This message edited by achilles1101 at 9:07 AM, April 11th (Saturday)]

So she completed the timeline and gave it to me today. We talked about it and I got my questions answered. I must say talking about it was one thing, reading it was another. Hurt even more. Not sure why that is.

question for everyone.

Since I talked to OBS before WS told me the truth and I found out information OBS didn't know, should I re contact her and let her know what I found out? It appears AP confessed again and blamed the transgression on WS. But what she doesn't know is that it restarted a long time ago and continued. I texted her a short update the following day but got no response. I know he was off work the two days following me talking to her but have no idea what is going on. He called WS eight times in twenty minutes the following day. She showed me the missed call log

Yes absolutely she deserves to know whatever you know and vice versa.

So I would start by telling her you are going to want to review the timeline and you will have some questions.

And at some point in the future you will require a polygraph to confirm some of it.

Then ask her to put a rebuilding plan together. Tell her the first draft should have at least 10 things in it and she should research what is appropriate. Tell her you can think of at least 20 things so starting with 10 shouldn’t be so hard. Tell her if she doesn’t want to do it you can go directly to divorce if she likes because you’re not gonna waste your time waiting.

Let her know you want to review it with her on Wednesday.

Obviously finding a new job needs to be on there. And transparency. And a postnup. Let’s see what she comes up with.

Let her know if her heart is not in it to not waste your time. She either loves you or doesn’t. If she wants to be with the AP, she’s welcome to go try. You will not stand in the way of her true love as you will be heading in the opposite direction to the path out of her infidelity.

so after progress, tonight failure. She sot upset about me texting OBS and when I refused to show her texts got mad and went to bed. Seems like this is going no where after I thought progress I am at wits end. That's the problem. She did the timeline right away and then gets pissed over something stupid> Not easy in the best of times , now impossible

[This message edited by achilles1101 at 1:23 AM, April 12th (Sunday)]

The affair was still ongoing and may not be over yet.

It is time to take your power back. Living in Unicornland is now over for your WW.

1. Inform your WW that you will contact the OBS whenever you want as your WW is a proven LIAR and you cannot trust anything she says. You need to corroborate what she says. Your WW does not get to drive how you react due to HER shitty choices. Tell her that she chose to hide HER texts, so why should you give her access to the texts from OBS? This is YOUR decision.

2. You will expose the affair to whomever you wish. If she did not want to be known as the "office whore", she should have considered that before having sex at work with another man. People probably already know, so her concerns are moot. In addition, she needs to find another job, so if she gats a bad reputation, it might work for you in that regard.

3. It is HER job to prove to you that she deserves to be in a marriage with you. SHE should be doing everything in her power to convince you of that. If she is not doing this, then she is pissed she got caught (regret), NOT remorseful.

4. She gets IC, no discussion. She needs to work to become a safe partner for you. She goes to counseling consistently and for the long term. I would suggest that you interview the counselor. He or she needs to have some experience with infidelity. If there is even a hint of blame towards you, NOT the right person.

5. She is accountable to you in every way...phone, tablet, computer, whereabouts. You get all passwords to everything and you can look at her online usage whenever you want.

6. No dishonesty in any form, EVER, no matter how painful. This is the only way you will ever begin to trust her period.

6. She doe NOT get an opinion about how you need to deal with this. she lost that right when she cheated.

7. We say here that you need to be willing to lose your marriage in order to save it. I have been around for a while and this is true for many of us. File for divorce. You do not have to go through with it but it will show your WW that you will not play games with her. It will also get you out of the misery of infidelity, one way or the other.

8. Read in the Healing Library about the 180 and implement it. It will help you detach, which will help to protect you from the emotional roller coaster you are now on.

9. Get STD testing. Your WW too.

10. Do not believe anything your WW says. Her ACTIONS will tell you the truth about her.

11. Work on yourself. NONE of your WW's choices are your fault. She had many honorable ways she could have behaved. She did not choose to do any of these.

These steps will tell you a lot about whether she is safe for you and your family. It doesn't matter how she feels about the consequences to her affair. She needs to put her big girl pants on and deal with the repercussions to her actions. DO NOT sweep this under the rug., If she does not change, this will most likely happen again. Do not protect her. She is an adult and needs to begin to act like one. What she is dealing with are the consequences to her actions. The way that she deals with them will tell you about the kind of person she is.

Here is a list that I have seen that details what a REMORSEFUL spouse looks like. They

• are non defensive

• examine their motives for their affairs, without blaming their spouses

• accept their roles as healers to their wounded partners

• do not resist breaking off all contact with the affair partner

• show genuine contrition and remorse for what they have done

• make amends and apologize to loved ones

• apologize often, especially the first two years

• listen with patience and validate their spouses’ pain

• allow their spouses a lot of room to express their feelings

• respect the betrayed spouse’s timetable for recovering

• seek to assure spouses of their love and commitment to fidelity

• keep no secrets

• do not maintain close ties with those who condoned the affair

• are willing to be extremely accountable for their time and activities

• frequently check in with spouses as to how they are doing

• are aware of and anticipate triggers of the affair

• are willing to get rid of hurtful reminders of the affair

• don’t minimize the damage the affair had on the children

commit themselves to a long-term plan for recovery, honesty, and Internal (Spiritual) growth

She sot upset about me texting OBS

How did she find out? Did you tell her? It matters whether you told her or she found out another way.

He called WS eight times in twenty minutes the following day.

This is hugely concerning, of course. Why is the number not blocked? Why is this man calling your wife?

The bigger issue of course is that the likelihood they will talk at work, *even if* she truly doesn't want to, is staggeringly high. And I'm not sure I believe she doesn't want to. Have you thought about that? And about how you'll deal with her spending her waking hours with him? Have you both talked about that?

got mad and went to bed.

This is affair behavior, not reconciliation behavior. She's not acting like she's "in this," and it screams of someone still connected to AP, even emotionally.

@Notmine's post is very good; this is what it looks like.

She sot upset about me texting OBS and when I refused to show her texts got mad and went to bed.

This makes me think that OM and WW had contact again. That he wanted her to find out exactly what was in the the email so that he could better lie to the OBS.

This means she is showing more concern for OM and his feeling then yours or your marriage.

Has she read any books about how to help your spouse heal from an affair?

Remember actions not words. She wrote out the timeline quickly so that's good. What else has she done to help you heal and help you trust her again?

I agree with Freeme that your CWs reaction reeks of someone who is still involved with the OM.

To answer some questions posted

She found out about me texting OBS the following day by walking in while I was posting here and reading it. Stupid thing was all I texted basically was that he had called her that day multiple times.

He called on her work line so couldn't be blocked. I assume he tried calling WS to find out what I told OBS so he could mitigate the damage.

We had already talked about the likelihood of him contacting her when he gets back to work. (he has been off work the two days following me calling OBS and assume he will be back to work Monday) I assume he will Skype her. We talked about her response and that I needed to know immediately and full disclosure.

It don't think she wants to "be" with him. This affair seems to be a fantasy, ego driven self esteem building thing. He is much younger than her

[This message edited by achilles1101 at 8:59 AM, April 12th (Sunday)]

them having sex will never end because WW will not leave that

job. NC means NC.

We had already talked about the likelihood of him contacting her when he gets back to work. (he has been off work the two days following me calling OBS and assume he will be back to work Monday) I assume he will Skype her. We talked about her response and that I needed to know immediately and full disclosure.

Gosh, if I were the manager at this establishment, I'd sure want to know about this. This is all falling apart around AP. Probably WS, too. I don't see how this is a sustainable job for her in the long run.