SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

So sorry I haven't been around here lately; I had to give myself a break.

Hello to all the new folks here. It's sad to have to be here, but you can't find a better place to be.

I have to read and catch up on everyone's stories! Betrayed Angel, it sounds like an OC situation to me, but I'm going to read a little more. Contact or No Contact, you can get good advice and get good information here. Some of us have C, some of us do not.

Chat with everyone later.

Hi everyone,

Just an update

Quit letting MOW have such destructive power over two families. WH needs to determine his legal rights and proceed that way. If he can't legally petition the courts for a DNA test, then he can try to pursue a test with MOW approval. If she doesn't approve, then he needs to go NC and assume that the child isn't his.

It seems as if my SAWH has decided that NC is the best. Our IC/MC seems to think that reality is starting to sink for him and that he is starting to see just how controlled and manipulated he has been by MOW. It's so glaringly obvious to EVERYONE else (both of our families are aware of whats been happening).

It's sad that either one of them (SAWH and MOW) would use a baby to keep an A going. As Dr. Phil says, "No baby should be born into this world with a job." (Except for Jesus but, He rocks!)

As for me, I need to keep working on detaching from their chaos and concentrate on me and my babies (they rock too!).

Prayers to all of you wonderful people dealing with A's, OC's, OW/OM's, ect.

We will survive...(cue music)

It's one of the (many) reasons why we have to have NC; that cOW was trying her best to destroy our family and willing to use the OC made us step back and decide NC was best for all of us. We just have to hope and pray the OC is better off vs being caught in the middle of the cOW playing games with us.

It's been eerily quiet on the cOW front lately...I'm sure that means something big is coming. But we are trying to enjoy life as much as we can. We had an amazing weekend and we are planning an awesome week (I'm off this week). I'm hoping the cOW made a New Year's resolution this year to leave us the hell alone, and that she's sticking to it! It could make for a nice, quiet year!

We are trying to find out if she is working though, to get the CS lowered. Chances are she isn't; she hasn't since 2008 so why start now?! But she might and keeping under the radar to avoid the CS getting lowered. Not like she will report herself. We shall see. Doing some investigative work.

Otherwise, I hope everyone has a good week. I will make an effort to come on more and be more supportive. Work has been crazy lately and I've been going thru a bit of a funk lately. I seem to have my highs and my lows. I'm hoping to make this week a good, high week with our family!

I was watching MobWives and heard Renee's story; she too has an OW/OC situation! Except the OC is already older. Looks like they did NC. It's sad how "common" this whole OW/OC crap seems to be.

Hugs to all of us!

Augh, so the cOW contacted my fwh because he had to pay ta small % of his performance pay (it was ordered as additional support, again he got HOSED). She contacted him to say thank you but she didn't get the documentation SHE requires. He told her he is under no obligation to provide her with jack other than the $, and she can contact the CS office if she feels like she needs more info (he sends the info there for his file). She messages him back "I hope everything is going well for you and your family". Damn that trick she's LUCKY I'm classy! My fwh didn't respond because he's all about business and he said it's none of her business to know how we are doing. Which is totally true, she has and will NEVER have ANYTHING to do with my children EVER. Sorry it's just her trying to throw in a dig and still try to feel relevant, its none of her damn business to ask about us. I asked my fwh to put her in her place but he just said to let it go, he wasn't going to make her feel any bit special with a response other than business oriented.

He's right. It's just we went SO long with NC, and I know it will never be 100% NC, but man did it feel GREAT to not hear from her. I just feel so...violated(?) because she had the nerve to ask about us. It just pissed me off so bad--I know I shouldn't let it get to me. I hope she falls of the damn radar again for another 4-6 months.

[This message edited by IslandWahine at 8:15 PM, February 29th (Wednesday)]

Island, is there anyway you guys can change all of your numbers and be 100% NC? I only ask because we are. If OW wants anything, she must go through the CS office, and we have filed a paper saying that we feel our own DD's safety would be compromised if our info was released (phone number, address, etc), so when OW gets paperwork our info is blacked out.

The only time my FWH has contact is CS hearings, which are conducted over the phone in our state.

I can't imagine not knowing if and when Ow will contact us. I hope, HOPE for you that like our OW, she finds someone else to occupy her time, and fades away.

I'm sorry I've been so absent.

Not sure how this will come off, but it both comforts me to know I'm not alone and digs up a lot of awful things I'm trying not to dwell on when I come to this site.

I need to not fell crazy or alone, but seeing the forum, just makes my heart hurt.

We watched the movie Courageous. I've loved their other films ( Facing the Gints and Fireproof) but boy, had NO idea about Courageous!

My WH is a cop and the movie SLAMMED home some awful things and I ended up crying most of the movie and WH ended up feeling , once again, like God will never forgive him.

It.was.awful.

We haven't talked about it. I know we should, but I also know that the guilt is there for both of us because we have NC with OC. The movie just made it SO much about being a deadbeat in God's eyes :(

I can't do it and I'm now feeling like WH thinks I'm choosing his eternal damnation over contact with OC. Ugh.

I feel awful about OC. ESP because like so many of you, Ow is a disgusting person.

But, I can't let that into mine or my kids' lives...

How do we do this? How do we deal with the guilt?

We've been lucky and haven't heard from OW in months and although she's still single, I think she's figured out that WH isnt leaving me for her.

I honestly hope she finds someone who wants to marry her and adopt OC, but. Expect it won't actually happen.

I am new here. I need advice and help. I am having a very difficult time dealing with the OC. My WH and I have been doing a wonderful job and working hard at repairing the damage done by the A. OW was very young and I knew her well. She pursued WH and wanted an A with him. When getting pregnant still did not get him to leave me she left town and went home to mom. She and OC live there now. It is half way across the country from us. WH has wanted to be a part of OC's life. I have been trying very hard to accept this. He has to travel there to see him and stays for a few days at a time. This is so hard on me and has often made me physically ill. I have gone with him a few times. OC is a sweet child, but his existence is a trigger of what happened. I don't really like going but I also hate him going alone. When I show up there, OW brings her mom to drop off OC and her mother puts on a big show for me, smiling and waving at me. WH and I have never been happier with the exception of this issue. I don't want to lose my marriage. But, if I can't learn to deal with this situation I don't know what will happen. I am so afraid WH who chose OW over me will now choose the OC over me and our family. Sometimes I feel like I just can't win. WH is supportive for the most part but sometimes still keeps things from me that concern OW and OC. I keep trying to get him to understand this makes it harder to heal and deal with this situation. Please help me. Will it get better? What can I do? I do go to counseling and we see a MC too.

Want2help, my fwh tried to get a total NC order from a different judge (the harassment we had gotten), and it was DENIED because that judge said that contact is EXPECTED because they have a child together

My fwh had wanted to change his number and I talked him out of it because of how muuch $ it was going to cost, and I refused to have any additional $ leave this house because of the cOW. But we just may. We also tried to have all the mail go elsewhere, although the cOW is more about sending annoying ass texts (that we print out and save). We told the cOW to only contact my fwh through his attorney, but she doesn't listen and unless we have a court order there's not much we can do. He doesn't want to go back to court or anything like that because he deosn't want to see her--I WISH like hell they did the phone thing here. It's not even an option here, which is way too bad. I hate knowing she will just pop up whenever she feels like it.

Debi9, I'm so sorry for your confusion. It's where I was last year, with the guilt. My fwh wants nothing to do with the OC so it made my guilt feel even worse for being with someone who would think that way (until he fully explained it to me in MC--still not sure if I agree with him but I totally understand). I had to really just let it go. Trust me, my dream come true is for the cOW to find her own man and they all live happily ever after, but I know that will never happen because she's so toxic. Have you 2 been able to have a good, solid sit-down, try to figure out where you both are and what you both want? Let me know if there is antying I can do to help.

(((rayofhope))) Sorry you are here, but this can be the best place to get support. Did you happen to look through the OC handbook posted in the beginning of this thread? Transparency is 100% necessary to deal with the betrayal. With an OC situation, the betrayal never really fully goes away. The OC will always remain a trigger (albiet an innocent one, but a trigger nonetheless). What I know I try to do is remind myself that while I cannot control the situation, I can be made aware of the situation at all times, and all decisions that we make in regards to OUR family/COM are made together. I made my fwh aware that I was ok with C or NC and I was going to support either decision he made--but everything in regards to the cOW/OC had to be made together since those decisions have a direct impact on OUR family. You will find everyone here does things a little differently, based on their own situations. We don't judge here! If your fwh wants C with the OC, he should realize that he needs to take your feelings into consideration and he has to try to find a medium. Especially if he wants R.

I can say for myself, time has made everything "better". However I still have not seen the cOW or OC up close in real life yet, so I know that there will be phases/layers to my healing. The healing takes time and energy, expect ups and downs. Open communication is what will work the best. My fwh and I are still working through the beast of communication, and I had some serious downs (which is part of why I was M.I.A.).

Hugs to us all.

rayofhope, I'm sorry that you are stuck here with the rest of us. No matter how you decide to move forward, the situation will be very difficult and will affect you deeply but it does get somewhat easier as time goes along especially if your husband is doing all the right things and considers your input on everything. Good communication is essential to getting through this effectively but it will still be painful. I also gave my husband the choice to be involved with his son if he wanted to be because as difficult as it is dealing with the effect of his infidelity and this woman who willingly chose to devastate my life and the lives of my family, I believe it would be more difficult to deal with myself knowing that I deprived a child of it's father. That would drag me down to their level in my eyes and I will not stoop so low. In addition, this woman is old enough to know how to behave now that she also knows that my husband never wants to have anything to do with her again and is disgusted with the whole situation. Luckily she is also mature enough to understand the negative effect of any further irresponsible or inappropriate behavior will have on her son. If she were like some of the people many of the others here are having to deal with, it would probably be a different story. As many people here have said, you have to do what is right for you and there are no right or wrong answers. The situation will never be fair or great no matter what decisions are made. As much as I would like to not have to face the OC or be civil to the OW, I refuse to be excluded from the situation in any form and I know I will be stronger for it. I am and will continue to be in the middle of everything, including visitations, as much as I can so as to be the constant reminder of how their relationship has had to change due to their own stupid and selfish decisions. They were friends prior to this and I was happy and trusting enough to allow it despite the fact that they had dated in the past but they no longer deserve any privacy. It's not that I don't exactly trust my husband, because as I said, he is disgusted with himself, her, and the situation this has created for our family and a little boy, but I certainly don't trust her. In addition, my husband is such a kind and trusting soul that he will share things with her that she will willingly and easily use against him if she ever felt like the need arises. By being involved, I feel like I am protecting my family from any further damage from a woman who really has nothing further to lose. I am also protecting my dignity as a wife. I will be glad when the child is older and it will not require her presence to visit with him and then we can actually find some level of pleasure in spending time with him. They are still working through their agreements so we haven't even begun this chapter of our healing. I'm sure I'll have plenty to rant about then.

Wouldn't it be interesting if these OW had to put their portion of the support payment into an account that could then only be used for the OC. If she couldn't come up with the money or used it inappropriately, she would risk jail just like the WH. These women really have no idea what it's like having support payments over their heads. It's not a debt you can just declare bankrucy over and walk away like so many others. There is no out even if money gets tight. These women are so callus about the emotional and physical effect of this type of legal arrangement that is just waiting to make the WH out to be the bad guy even throw them in jail if they get behind as if the OW isn't equally responsible for the situation. If there was some equal accountability for the OW (or the custodial parent), there would probably be fewer people having babies they can't afford.

[This message edited by disrespected666 at 11:30 PM, February 22nd (Wednesday)]

To those who have replied to my post I say "Thank You". I feel so lost and have no one to talk to. I have read the OC Handbook. I printed a copy out and gave it to WH and said I thought we should go over it together. One point that I have noted on several occaisions is that visitation should include the BS. This is proving a very difficult issue for us. I can't fly to another state each time as I have a son still at home. However, having WH stay for three days in another state, at a hotel in the same city she is in is almost unbearable. She has shown no remorse for her actions and during the A didn't even allow WH to mention my name. She knew me well. She had actually gone after my oldest son (21 at the time) first before moving on to WH. She had a brief fling with my son. She was apparently insistent that WH not sleep with me, go places with me, etc. I wonder if this is common with OW in A. I can't seem to reconcile within myself that I don't want WH to have contact and the fact that it seems wrong of me to keep a child from having some contact with his father. WH says he want OC to know that he at least cared and even given the horrible situation tried to be a presence in his life. That sounds reasonable in my brain but it doesn't work with my heart. This is tearing me apart. Beyond that, she is very demanding and is taking us back to court because she wants more money. She lives with her mom and her mom is the child's baby sitter yet she wants more and more. We changed our will months ago to exclude OC. My older two boys (now 21 and 24) know about the OW, OC and the A. They overheard me telling a friend during a very rough time. Given the relationship with oldest son and OW this was really, really bad. She was a friend of theirs. I refuse to let youngest son know as he is autistic and has enough problems to face each day. He doesn't deal well with change at all. But, that is a whole other story in my life. WH and I recently had a rough spot as he bought a carseat and present for OC for his Bday that I had specifically asked him not to buy as they were the exact things OW said she wanted WH to get him for his Bday. He then lied to me about it and I found out during a visit to see OC that I went on. I was so hurt and angry and this set recovery back quite a bit. He is now visiting about every 3 to 4 months. After the upset during last visit he said he won't go again until I feel stronger. I have anxiety attacks just thinking about him going there again after he lied to me. But, it isn't that great being there either. I actually enjoy being with OC and allow myself to enjoy him as a beautiful little person. But, it tears me up too. Do I go next time or not? I am thinking of asking WH to have her do all communicating through me. Does anyone else do this? I need to do what I can to feel secure about this situation.

Wouldn't it be interesting if these OW had to put their portion of the support payment into an account that could then only be used for the OC. If she couldn't come up with the money or used it inappropriately, she would risk jail just like the WH. These women really have no idea what it's like having support payments over their heads and are so callus about the emotional and physical effect of this type of legal arrangement that is just waiting to make the WH out to be the bad guy even throw them in jail if they get behind as if the OW isn't equally responsible for the situation. If there was some equal accountability for the OW (or the custodial parent), there would probably be fewer people having babies they can't afford.

For the ones that are $ hungry, it's a sense of enttitlement. I have your child = I have your wallet. I told y'all the cOW in my sitch went after MY income 3X!!! The cOW in our sitch didn't even show any shame, talking about what she was entitled to and what she expects and fairness. For those who don't know my story, I work and make almost as much $ as my fwh, therefore our combined income is pretty decent, vs. the cOW who hasn't worked since 2008 and is only living off of the CS and whatever assistance she qualifies for. Her last argument for more $ was that our COM live a more lavish lifestyle than the OC, and it's not fair that the OC doesn't get to enjoy the "comfortable" lifestyle that our COM do, therefore the CS should have gone up because of that. Luckily the judge read right thru that mess and denied it. We had wanted the additional suppport my fwh pays to go into a trust or something, but it was an after thought that hopefully our new lawyer can bring up at the future remod hearing (which I am 1000% certain the cOW already has that date penciled in).

(((rayofhope))) What does the court order say about visitation? Look it over as well as the guidelines for your state (I practically have our guidelines memorized)--the OW may be on the hook for either helping pay for travel or have to agree to meet halfway/etc. OR you can request your CS get reduced due to the excessive cost of travel--some states will take that into consideration when doing calculations. Good to get that in writing now because as the OC gets older, there may be more travel, including travel to your home (obviously without the OW).

I remember asking my fwh if he wanted to get the OC a gift for bdays/christmas--i told him that if he does it needs to be something we look at together. Perhaps in the future; right now my fwh won't send anything; his reasoning is that he pays a LOT of CS plus the cOW lied about the arrears that built up while we were waiting for paternity--to the tune of $1000, therefore that's bdays/christmas for awhile. AGain, not something I exactly agree with, but in our sitch we are dealing with the "give a mouse a cookie they ask for the whole damn grocery store" mess.

I wish the cOW was reasonable, because I think things would've/could've gone over better for everyone. But she's a nutcase and we're stuck with her! Rayofhope, I'm so sorry about the multi-level betrayal. Your son must be confused and pissed--who could blame him.

The trust takes a LONG time to build up, and your fwh should be active in making sure you are set. No more lies, keeping things, etc. Remind him that building trust is like building a bank account (LOL I'm so obsessed with money--it's because I've worked too long and hard to watch it slip away). The more he puts in, the larger the account grows. But when he keeps things from you, lies, etc., he is making withdrawals that he will now have to work at rebuilding. Which means more work for him to catch-up/get ahead. Remind him that this affects YOUR household, therefore anything additional other than CS needs to be discussed. And again, know your guidelines--gifts cannot count as anything other than gifts, and you don't want the OW to be aware that there is ANY additional $, because guaranteed she will go after that anything she gets mad. Especially if she is already going after more $. Finances need to be kept extra tight and private. Trust me, we learned the hard way. The betrayal is enough; the money part is total icing on the cake...

[This message edited by IslandWahine at 8:17 PM, February 29th (Wednesday)]

I forgot; if you can, get a family cell phone for her to only contact with--like adding a simple line to a family plan and make that the contact. She could be like our OW though and not care (we made a separate email account for her to use--she instead used it to sign us up for a bunch of bullshit websites).

<<Rayofhope>>

Islandwahine gives great advice. I'm limited on what I can say since OW does monitor my posts, but I will say that I feel your confusion. It would be nearly impossible for me to accept my husband traveling to see OC without me present for the reasons stated above among others. We are in a similar situation in that we are several states away and it will take some maneuvering to manage my work schedule, our COM, and the travel necessary for my husband to see the OC but it was these same issues that gave my husband the opportunity and extra time and money to carry on with the OW so I will not let it continue to bar me from being involved in the situation they have caused. They ate, got drunk and got a hotel room with the money I earned while having to work out of town away from my life and my daughter. Now my FWH has to make it work with me in the picture. Since we haven't visited the OC yet, I'm not sure how it will work or how often it will be feasible but that's what I can live with and tolerate this. As the OC becomes older, the OW will not be able to use his age or his familiarity with my husband and myself to insert herself into our visits so I know that will get easier for us too.

Even if it's difficult for you, it sounds like being there for the visits is less tramatic and damaging to you then not being there. I think that will get better with time too as you learn to deal with all the emotions that will bombard you during the encounters. I never thought I would ever be able to deal with this situation but while I still get angry and anxious every time we have to discuss the OW or respond to her, I find myself a little less sick to my stomach and a little quicker to get over the renewed invasion each time it happens. My husband and I have established ground rules and each time he meets them, I feel more like the situation is under control and I am empowered. I know things will come along that will knock me back but those experiences will

eventually add to my growing strength until she gets shoved back into a proper perspective. That's the thoughts that give me strength to stay in these horrible mess. what I can live with.

(ray of hope) hey I am sorry that you are here. It always affects me deeply when I see someone new here. I don't post much but I lurk a lot. I wish this place had been known to me when I was going through this situation. I guess in many ways I always will be going through this situation though it is mostly behind me now.

(rayofhope) well sorry, I hit submit too soon. What I was trying to explain is that my ExFWH also had an affair and OC. I spent a couple of years trying to make things work. In the long run it just didn't. The scars that I felt just never could quite heal while I was trying to heal our relationship. The wounds just keep getting reopened every time I had to visit some aspect of the situation. for me, it just didn't work. My ex wound up marrying the OW after we split. when I was trying to make it work, there was some part of me that I think did not want her to "win" him. It seems like some sort of major defeat for us to split up like she had "won". I realized that it really did not feel like that at all once it occurred. It was only then that I truly felt free to heal. I in time did not see him as a prize anymore. I finally saw him through clear eyes that everyone else saw him through. when it is spoken of being in a fog around here, I think the person in a fog was me. But I was in the fog of thinking we had something good and would make it work. just remember that staying and accepting the situation is not your only option. if you choose to do so, no one here will judge you for that. there are people here with very good advice on how to proceed with that. One thing though I can say is if you cannot accept the other child you might really want to consider abandoning your efforts to heal the relationship. it is a no-win situation for you. If you try to embrace the other child there will be people who disapprove. If you cannot accept the other child you will be judged for this as well. can you live the rest of your life with these things hanging over your head?

I am replying just to let you know from the standpoint of someone whose marriage did not survive the other child situation that things do heal and get better. In fact they get better in ways that they never can do if you stay. I know this since for two years I tried to work on it and for those years I did see how things reach a certain level and then don't seem to get any better. it was when I let go of the marriage that I let go of everything having to do with the feelings that the other child gave me. what ever you choose, just know it is okay. I wish for you every best that there is. many hugs your way.

Do you ever wish you could sue cOW for the destruction of your life? For getting knocked up on purpose? For ruining your family? I wish I could...I know WS is part of the blame and I can't sue him unless I divorce him.

The COW sent a picture of the baby the other day and it makes me feel good knowing that little baby is not a cute baby at all He looks just like her! She's not even supposed to be in contact with WS, but this is her way of staying in touch, sending pictures. And of course, HE still won't give me access to his email.

Life is so hard sometimes.

It is very hard to read some of the words written. I don't feel this is any type of contest. In my opinion, nobody can win when there has been an A. It seems everyone loses something. I just can't accept that after all of the hard work FWH and I have done to repair our relationship and to find amazing happiness together that I have to lose that too. Certainly, with communication, honesty, lots of love and some compromise we can find our way through this mess. I want to believe we can make this work. I so appreciate the honest words and opinions and the practival suggestions. It is very helpful in dealing with this mess. I too think that the OW should be able to be sued. Why not for mental anquish? Why should they just get money and not have to account for every cent? Why aren't their financial records an open book? Why should they be treated so generously when they made a choice to bring an innocent child into the world to use as a pawn in a game to extort money? I think children should be supported and taken care of but never realized the extent to which some women are using this system.

Hi ladies-

The couple of comments recently regarding CS have me thinking (esp. since the first CS hearing for fWH's OC is in two weeks and I am nervous about the loss of income and arrers that have built up in the past 3 months) I WISH that there was some documentation requirement that any funds given in CS actually went to the CHILD. I can accept that he has an obligation, but I have seen too many times that the money is used for the mother's selfish purposes and not to support the child.

Here's hoping I can think about something besides money for the next two weeks...

(((hurt&unsure))) The money actually hurts more than the fact there is an OC for me! The money is a SMACK in the face, especially because I have worked so hard to go to school and help us get to the financial freedom to finally enjoy life, just to have us go backwards. Between the CS, the few months of arrears that built up while waiting for paternity, the lawyers (to the tune of about $10K)...we are finally getting our finances back in order so we can enjoy our hard work.

If possible, you CAN try to "work it out" with the OW, try to offer straight cash for less vs. having it added to what the CS is...the cOW didn't give us the chance to do that although she most likely would've rejected the offer. SHE has the power to not go after the arrears, although they almost always do mostly for revenge. If anything, start putting some $ aside to prepare for the arrears. If you haven't yet, find a lawyer who either has experience with this type of situation or a lawyer who is a father's rights advocate. IT's the HUGEST mistake we made; my fwh found the first lawyer with his pre-paid legal who was completely lost, and we are paying dearly for it. A lawyer's retainer sucks, but I can say it pays off in the long run. Our new lawyer is AMAZING, she is a father's rights advocate and her clientele are almost all fathers (and some non-custodial mothers). However, there's not much we can change to the court order until we get a remod. A family friend of ours is also going thru an OC situation, and the husband is now paying for college expenses plus CS for a 19-going on 20 year old OC! They live in VA.

Not trying to scare you! There are so many things we learned AFTER the fact. Like asking for joint legal off the bat vs. waiting until later.

Read over the guidelines, and make sure you understand them all. Be prepared for a vengeful cOW going after EVERYTHING she possibly can. IF she can't have your H, she will try to get your H's money. Remember, the child should be supported by BOTH parents, so if the OW in your sitch isn't working, PUSH for income to be imputed. THe lawyer in our sitch didn't do that, and her income is calculated at ZERO! Check how long you have to dispute the order after it is written; in our state it's 10 days and our old lawyer screwed it up! We found out so much the hard way, I hope and pray at remod time (every 3 years here) we can fix all of his mistakes. But be prepared for the judge to favor the OW. We found that out the hard way, it was almost like he was trying to punish my fwh (and he did).

(((hugs))) to us all.

[This message edited by IslandWahine at 8:19 PM, February 29th (Wednesday)]

Sadly we are in NY, so it is till 21 for us. That is part of what makes me upset that there is no accountability for showing the CS money actually goes to the child. I would much rather give money directly to the child after age 18 or they move out since we are legally obligated to do so anyway.

thanks for the advice, we have put away some money in anticipation of the arrers, but the more I read about what COULD be included as possible CS obligations, the more nervous I get.

I just realized that I keep referring to "our" obligation when it was certinly not "our" decision for him to have an affair. Nothing like money troubles to stir up some anger.