SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Dearest Change.

Might I suggest something? In my post about myself and my BP, now husband, you will see that I lied so much and for a long time. There were times that I began believing my own lies. All of this was making it hard to recall detail of what I did, didn't do, said, and more.

I am sure that some of my forgetfulness was because I didn't want to remember, some because of how long it had been since D-day, and some because I was believing some of my own lies.

One the day I finally hit bottom and committed to doing everything it would take, I knew that it was going to be hard to remember what my BP would need answers to and what he would want and need to know.

I asked my therapist for advice. My BP and I did a lot of reading on uncovering memories, etc. He and I would spend some time several times a week sitting down and literally stepping through everything, over and over again. I was very surprised how it helped uncover the things I had really forgotten and sometimes chosen to forget. This was not emotionally easy at all. Lots of tears, sometimes lots of anger.

Neither of you should expect that you will remember anywhere near everything all in one sit-down. As a matter of fact, it will likely come out somewhat disjointed - but that is OK. Take notes in pencil. Have lots of tissues handy.

After numerous little sessions together, you may think you can't remember any more, but it will also seem like there is more to be discovered - - -

I suggest (caution here) you find a good and credentialed hypnotherapist. I saw one. She was careful to not gather any information from my BP or myself that would bias her or guide her which could risk planting memories. When I was under, she walked through my times with OM, my texts with OM, my texts with friends, my texts with my BP. We were able to add detail to what I had remembered when working on it with my BP and we discovered a lot more detail about my time with the OM (both the sex and the non-sex time) and a lot of detail in my texts and conversations with the OM and friends.

My therapist, husband and I all have a good laugh now about what it took then with the hypnotherapist. Back then most people were still using flip phones. Smartphones were still the new thing out there. My therapist says that with the way smartphones are now and with emojis that give the brain images to tie words to, it would have been much easier for the hypnotherapist to work me through the memory uncovering.

I hope this is helpful.

We hope and pray for your strength and dedication in getting through this.

Change4theBetter, I'm so glad to hear you are now invested in your own change and improvement instead of wanting it to go away. I hope through the shame you also start to feel a sense of relief. When I was actively lying, or hiding, it's like I was ripping bits of myself and putting them somewhere else. Not lying feels like stitching myself back together, integrating those bits that felt unacceptable, seeing and accepting myself.

It's very hard to stop the *habit* of lying, and I'm including in that hiding, minimizing, and omitting. I've had to be scrupulously honest about even little things to break the habit. If your husband is OK with it, it might help to make him the person you own up to when you catch yourself in a lie. You also should get used to correcting yourself in real time to everyone. I've got some phrases handy "I should have said . . ." or "that's how I'd like it to be, what is really the case . . ." or "White lie!"

The lies that you told and the lies you feel like telling are excellent clues about where you have problems. The lies need to stop for many reasons, but instead of just being ashamed, use them as a roadmap for getting to what you need to understand better, where they come from, how to make a different choice when you feel the urge to lie. They come from very specific places and for very specific reasons. Some are just habit - it's not my fault or minimize the consequence or make someone not feel bad - but some are very deep and important to examine. They'll speak to what you desire but are afraid you shouldn't desire, what kind of person you are but afraid is unacceptable, what you had to do to get by when you were younger.

With the OBS, you are paying the consequences for behavior you did a long time ago, and for hiding it from her up until recently. You are now doing the right thing, even though it feels bad - it's a typical wayward trait to focus on the feelings, not whether something is right or not. It's good to get used to the feeling of discomfort in doing the right thing rather than judging something by how it feels. If it gets to be too much, you can remind yourself that you have stopped. Your intrusion on her life stopped when you stopped interacting with her husband and stopped hiding from her.

Keep it up! You're changing for the better :)

[This message edited by Pippin at 5:20 AM, August 13th (Tuesday)]

What I felt shittier about then was that she had been so gaslit by him for so long that she believed him when he gave his reason for the A to have been due to how she acted to him. I wasn’t “upset by nobility.” -I’m truly bent out of shape for the role that I played, but it sickened me to hear her put herself down, excuse her husband’s actions and go further to say that she’s thankful that I was there for him during that time. After BH called her she initially chose to rugsweep the entire thing.

Which really was not much different than what you did to your husband in most ways. Are you sure you just weren't feeling shamed that you took advantage of a woman that wasn't much different than you if not worse off? I mean here you are obviously with your own issues, you have an affair to alleviate your issues and you were using her husband to feel better when she was worse off than you. In some sense you took advantage of a sick abused woman. I can see though how you were glad she got away from him and you were relieved for her safety. You should be proud you have moved to that level of empathy and compassion even if you played a part in some of her downfall at some point.

[This message edited by Zugzwang at 10:29 AM, August 13th (Tuesday)]

Edited to add: Posted on wrong thread (similar names) but allow to stand after OP posted me...

I’m posting this on both your threads because I believe this message might help you both. I am not going to share any specific info from either thread, but this is based on my perception that you both want to reconcile, but really aren’t clear on if it’s possible, how to do it and what the next steps could be.

First some statements, some ground-rules or fundamental issues. Some of them might sound harsh, but to me they are about as close to absolute truths as you can find when dealing with infidelity.

Nothing justifies infidelity. Nothing at all. Neither of you can ever start a sentence with “I/she cheated, but…” followed by some reasoning to explain or minimize the decision to have an affair.

The WS needs to own the decision to have cheated. And yes – it is a decision. If you allow any minimization or try to avoid the total responsibility for deciding to have an affair… well… then there isn’t really any way to prevent it from happening again.

Nobody “wins” infidelity. There are only losers from infidelity. That applies both to the WS and the BS. In my black-and-white world there are only two good ways to get out of infidelity and they are reconciliation or divorce.

Nobody “wins” divorce, the Big D is like an amputation – it’s a change that’s made to live on, to make the best of what is. You don’t divorce for spite or revenge, just like you don’t cut off your foot to spite someone. You divorce to get out of the situation of infidelity and a tainted marriage you (or the spouse) don’t think is worth keeping. What you do with your life after D defines if you win or not.

Reconciliation is comparable. If you manage to R and do so properly you two both “win” per se. Do it properly and you should have the groundwork for a wonderful marriage. But you will soon realize that the work of R could have been done without ever having had to deal with infidelity. You don’t “win” with R because of the infidelity, but rather you could “win” despite the infidelity. But only if done properly.

You can’t punish for infidelity as if that punishment wipes the slate clean. Like we do with criminals: we send someone to jail for 3 years for stealing a car, and once he’s out we claim he’s paid his debt to society and deserves a chance to start fresh. Not the same with an affair. We can’t have WS do push-ups or sleep on the floor or use public shaming. We can’t punish for infidelity.

This is not the same as condoning infidelity. Far from it. But if you want to D then don’t do it to punish the WS, but rather because YOU want to. If you want to R, then don’t make your WS tell everyone in person about the affair unless it has a clear purpose for reconciliation. You can’t punish enough for what happened, so don’t even try because it won’t bring any benefit.

NOTHING – NOTHING – NOTHING is forcing either of you to remain in this marriage.

No – not the kids. NOTHING.

Most research shows that kids are happier when they have two loving parents in a stable, loving environment. The key-factors in that statement is not necessarily the number of loving parents, but rather the environment. This is supported in research that shows that income and education of parent has more weight on child-happiness than the number of parents. Either of you two as good, cooperating co-parents would probably be better for your kids than as husband and wife in a tense, dysfunctional, depressed and unloving environment.

Can’t afford to divorce? Bull…

Don’t want to lose half of yours? More bull…

It’s all excuses. It’s all justification for not doing anything IMHO.

The ONLY reason you should remain married is because you WANT TO, not because you need to or can’t do anything else.

OK – To summarize:

Nothing justifies infidelity.

The WS needs to own the decision to have cheated.

Nobody wins infidelity.

You can R or you can D.

The BS can’t punish the WS successfully, nor can the WS use self-punishment as a means to make things right.

It’s only your will and your choice that keeps you in the marriage.

OK – so with that short intro then let’s get into what I suggest you two do:

Like I stated in my first line I’m posting this on both threads:

Sit down for a minute and think: Do I want this marriage?

I’m not asking if the BS can forgive the affair or not, because that’s not really the goal. The affair will probably never be “forgiven” as most of us understand that word. But… does the BS want to reach a place with the WS where the affair has a lesser role in their relationship?

If no – divorce. Don’t need WS approval to do that. Just go for it.

If yes… Well… Sit down again and think: What sort of marriage do I want?

If the WS wants a shot at being offered reconciliation they need to give the BS the total, unabridged truth… This should be done without having to request it. WS – based on your posts you want to reconcile so go do this irrespective of what your BS wants:

This can be done verbally or in written form. The WS needs to answer questions and be willing to go through the pain with the BS. The WS needs to understand that this is an opportunity to show the BS the honesty and openness and trust so much required for reconciliation. Learning NOW that the WS and the AP had sexed a gazillion times will cause less damage than learning of a kiss 5-6 months into R.

The BS needs to hear the truth and digest it. It might lead to a situation where the BS refuses to reconcile, but without the truth R isn’t possible anyways. The BS needs to understand when the major truths are in the open and realize that some details might be left out because they are non-important. Like did WS have lasagna or ravioli when she ate dinner with OM might not register as relevant in the WS listing of the affair. The BS needs to decide at some point that they have enough “truth” to move on. Be it R or D. This is not the same as deciding not to ask again or for more detail, that can happen at any time. But the BS needs to feel assured he has…97-99% of what he needs.

This can be supported with a poly. If the WS fails a poly after sharing the truth… the BS can assume there are more holes in the story and the trust isn’t there. R isn’t possible. But if the WS passes the poly… you have a good base to work from.

I think it can be beneficial to use good business practices in parts of one’s personal life.

Two entrepreneurs would never simply decide to open a business and then wait for results. You need a direction, a plan, milestones and measuring-blocks. You need to know what you are headed for and have some idea how to get there.

I think that if the BS wants to reconcile he should be upfront about it. An honest, upfront answer could be:

“I want to reconcile, but I’m not clear on if we can. Let’s try and see what we can do”.

There. Now you know what you are headed for. But it’s only a goal, a mission-statement.

If you reach this stage, you two can start talking about what needs to be done. That could be defined partially by what I asked you to think about: What sort of marriage do I want?

Talk about this: A year, 5 years, 10 years from now… what sort of marriage do you want to have? Can you reach a joint goal? A combined vision?

The WS needs to dig deep into the why. This is done with IC and should be rather limited between the IC and the WS. The BS can be informed of progress but should really not meddle in on this. WS can share, but on own accord. This is why they are called INDUVIDUAL counselors.

Youi two need to find ways to interact without the awkwardness and … well…. HATE and sorrow that infidelity brings.

You won’t solve the infidelity issues in a week or even in a month. You need TIME, so there isn’t any benefit or reason to talk A issues all the time every day. Find time to talk, preferably both rested and private. In between find a combination of alone time, together time and family time.

READ on marriage, communications, marital finances… Find combined activities. Heck… take daily 40-minute walks together. No need to talk, just walk side-by-side. Be open to ANY and ALL ideas. Marriage weekend? Go for it. Online courses? Go for it.

Find a good MC. When you phone for an appointment then ask about their experience with infidelity. Ask specifically if they think infidelity is a sign of a bad marriage or can be caused by the BS. If they say “yes” then find another one. These MC’s – using the same logic – probably think rape is due to the victim wearing a short skirt.

At least once a week sit down individually and think: Did we make progress this week? Did I make progress? Sit together and go over the week, the improvements and the down-sides. Be very emotionally clear and open to each other. Ask each other: Are we any closer to our goal?

It’s a long tough road, but it’s made easier if you are both walking together side-by-side. Right now, it does sound like that’s what you want, but it also sounds like you aren’t necessarily headed the same way. Too much push and shove and not enough support.

Hope this helps.

[This message edited by Bigger at 1:46 PM, August 13th (Tuesday)]

Dday 5.

BH had nagging questions pertaining to October 2015- the month of our first wedding anniversary. I tried answering everything as best as I could until I told him a I can’t trust my revisionist memory. I insisted I was more than 100% sure- no way in hell did I actually do anything with AP during our marriage. I would have passed a polygraph with flying colors I was so so so very sure. I told him he can ask AP. I was that sure nothing had happened.

He went to speak to AP at his place of work. I couldn’t even imagine what this was like for him. AP confirmed much of what I had told BH, however, he said we slept together once after we were married... in October 2015.

I threw up when BH told me. I think to some degree I was more shocked than he was. His gut kept telling him something happened. You all kept telling him that something happened. I was positive it hadn’t. Finding out that I cheated and slept with AP 3 days after our first wedding anniversary- my heart is broken. I don’t know who I was back then. I didn’t know I was capable of such devastation to the man I now love so much. Did I love him then? I wanted to.

We both drove home. He spoke with his friend and I went to drop our kids off at my parents house. More details of the act and time itself came back to me and I shared everything I could remember with BH. When he was satisfied he told me to come back home. I had an appointment with my IC tonight. I told her what happened and she told me to bring him. 2 hours ago she had to reschedule but called and spoke with us both on the phone for almost an hour.

I’m not interested in comments about my memory. Since dday 2 I have not withheld any information from BH. I told him everything I completely believed to be the truth.

The last few hours I’ve struggled to tell BH everything and anything that came back to me. I say struggle not bc there was anything I didn’t want to tell him but I don’t trust myself anymore. I don’t trust my memories anymore. Last night BH and I were talking and two instances came up in a conversation that I insisted happened totally differently in my memory than his.

BH asked AP about a date he had questioned. I googled a different motel several times the day we went to look at engagement rings. I had been saying that I was to meet AP and it didn’t end up happening bc I was running too late. AP denied the whole thing- we had never made plans to meet at that motel. I was just as sure that I had to have been with him. I went through anyone else I was speaking with at the time and remembered yet ANOTHER AP. I told BH I was a serial cheater- I had denied it up until now. I didn’t believe that I was.

I feel like someone who woke up in a hospital bed and was told that I killed a pedestrian while texting and driving. I did this horrible thing. I’m trying to own what I did and do all the work necessary...I know the pedestrian died, I trust the person who told me I was texting and driving bc it was something I did often- but I don’t remember the point of impact. This is the first analogy I can think of to explain the memory I somehow “erased”. And then slowly bits and pieces come back but even I question the authenticity of those memories.

I guess my point is that for those following our story, you deserve to know. Especially since it seems you’ve all known all along.

[This message edited by Change4thebetter at 7:20 PM, August 14th, 2019 (Wednesday)]

This development is not entirely surprising and there is a lot to say about that, but it wouldn’t be terribly productive...

I will say this though, a frequent comment here is that a BS has to know what they are reconciling from to have a shot at successful R. Neither you or your BH seem to know the extent of your betrayal. The fact that you don’t “know” what you’ve done (less than 10 years ago) is by far the biggest stumbling block to R. To an outsider looking in, it further strains your already strained credibility.

Another AP? Did you reveal the identity of this AP? Will your husband need to ask this new AP questions as well to fill in the gaps of your story?

[This message edited by Ijustdontknow13 at 9:24 AM, August 15th (Thursday)]

Ijustdontknow - you asked why the fuck is he still with me and then wisely deleted your comment.

It wasn’t really an insightful or helpful comment but I don’t know the answer. It’s complicated. but I’m eternally grateful that he is. Maybe you should ask him.

[This message edited by Change4thebetter at 9:41 AM, August 15th, 2019 (Thursday)]

You are one of the fortunate WS with a BS who will forgive just about anything to keep his marriage. He is not alone. I am amazed at what some of the BS’s here will tolerate to keep their spouse. But I know I am looking at it through my own lens and am in no position to judge.

Frankly I believe that if you told your BS there were 10 others and all were in your bed he would still want you.

You don’t repay that kind of devotion with what you are doing. This I forgot thing has to end. It’s not 20 years ago, it’s recent. I don’t think anyone here is buying it If you really loved him, just let it all out. If you don’t, let him go.

Probably no one here remembers the Steve Martin bit, but he did a whole routine about “I forgot”. Has to be on you tube somewhere. That was funny. This isn’t.

As you said, you don't know why BS is still with you.

I am glad you are taking care of him however you can.

You really need to find a way to completely prostrate yourself because you know you would never put up with this from him (You even said so).

He is 100% better than you. Follow his lead and let him being amazing lift you up. Your defensiveness is lowering (About time!), but do you see how screwed up you were when you first showed up?

How are you fixing him lately?

You should be showering him with loving comments. He is starving himself and hating himself. He knows you cheated during your marriage now too. Something you swore never happened.

You think you feel foolish not trusting us telling you there was more. Imagine how foolish he feels not pushing earlier like we begged him to do.

Now all the worst posts are circling in his head.

Let him be broken. Hold him and cry about what you just did to him.

Tell him to cry and beg for forgiveness. I wish you could fix this, but you are following the typical trend of WS. Like all of them, you lied and TT (The worst part).

Now try to listen to other people. Give your BS all the power in the relationship (You still are just even thinking about this) because you had zero respect or love for him early on and JUST NOW realize you don't deserve him.

He is your KISA. Give him everything you are because it was coal he has been molding into the diamond you are so proud you are now.

Lets back up in time.

If he never married you:

-You would be a single side piece for these POS

-Most likely have multiple baby daddies (Multiple pregnancy scares)

-No where near as professionally successful (Drama takes time)

-Most likely not nearly as entrenched in your religion (Your faith wouldn't embrace who you were before)

-Full of lies to yourself and others, so no one would trust you

Write out how he made you a better person. That the person you are now is entirely his because he made it. Then ask him what you need to fix because you know you are still broken.

Good luck. Glad you are learning you are still lying to yourself.

Put the brakes on any deeper introspection and fill the basic broad details of the affair if you can. And no need to completely lose yourself and acquiesce to unreasonable requests. I think you both are wildly incompatible and would be better off with other people but that's not my call to make

.

Only other time I have ventured onto your thread. Please be honest for once here. Just tell truthfully as to how many partners you've had during this relationship? Why are you intent on prolonging the pain for both of you? You have no obligations towards anyone here.

Your story is fantastical. It can be funny but as one poster said, toying with another person is not funny. You need to look into yourself and be truly honest. Do you want to spend the rest of your life with your husband? It's not wrong to say NO. Many waywards have walked away and it has been the right decision for both partners in the long run. No amount of IC or work can remove the basic truth about what you feel and how you've always felt about your husband. Maybe you could've stayed with someone who ticked your boxes but it is evidently not possible here. You'll constantly be looking for that passionate love which you don't feel with your husband.

Last question, what do you feel was the reason for your horrible treatment of him during the entire relationship? Belittling him and his feelings, no physical passion, anger and resentment. This has existed since the first day and never really stopped. What do you think is the reason for this?

It's not wrong to wish for a new start with someone else without this ugliness. Maybe a more authentic relationship with a new partner.

I’m not interested in comments about my memory.

That doesn't surprise me, I mean of course you're not. You are doing a pretty good job convincing those around you of this phenomenon. Can't have us planting seeds of doubt for your BH to read and wise up to. That would mean more investigation on his part, possibly digging up yet another conveniently lost memory.

Except I think you've broken him there, exhausted him to the point of disinterest. Perhaps it took longer than you expected and more truth than you could imagine coming to light. But mission accomplished, finally. Now you can work on guarding the rest of your secrets and figuring out how to prevent anymore from surfacing.

I was more shocked than he was.

WOW just wow..I seriously doubt it. What a thing to even say. Maybe shocked AP would be more forthcoming with the truth than you? That he would have the guts to have a conversation with your BH, that your BH would have the guts to seek him out for the truth? What's really fucked up is that you drove your BH to the point that he needed to face this man.

I had been saying that I was to meet AP and it didn’t end up happening bc I was running too late. AP denied the whole thing...I had denied it up until now.

 Yeah, you weren't banking on the above transpiring. You were hoping you could rope all the evidence into this AP, I mean you'd be insane to admit to another AP Even after all this time you thought AP would help keep the secrets between you. Though I will say it took courage to admit to another AP, rather than blame it on APs faulty information. Why you didn't go there certainly surprised me.

I threw up when BH told me.

Oh I can only imagine. You must've worked yourself up into quite a panic and fear induced state while forcing your BH to go speak with AP, wondering what he is going to tell. Your worst nightmare, you were yet again caught in a lie, AND not just any lie, one that matter dearly to your BH, because as long as the M itself wasn't tainted he could live easier, you could live easier. Upon his return with a truth you never expected him to bring back, I can certainly see how that made you sick. I wonder too if in a flash you realized that now you also have to explain the motel search?

This is the first analogy I can think of to explain the memory I somehow “erased”.

The only person you are fooling is your BH, who is so completely broken and traumatized, someone who is THE one with a seriously fucked up thought process because of it, and you keep using tactics to keep him down at his lowest point ever, manipulating him in a time his mental and emotional state is so fragile that you can get in a twist it more, pushing him to brink after brink. You see the absolute torment and anguish he suffers and care only for yourself.

You can tell me I'm wrong all day long, that it's not like that, it's true you just can't remember you don't mean to hurt him this way. You dont want it mentioned, you don't want anyone that hasn't been beaten down like your BH to not only see through you (like we already have) but to also keep it alive. Why? Because it gets messy for you, you see firsthand how your lies are busted time and time again, and well this, its going to get difficult to keep it up.

The pattern here is classic wayward behavior. Admit only to what you have to. With each new discovery you really can't deny the truth, I mean you could try but in your position and with your selective amnesia you have a scapegoat. Something to fall back on and it's not your fault.

Will you be taking a polygraph? Has your husband researched the administrator, to make sure he is reputable?

Will you be taking a polygraph? Has your husband researched the administrator, to make sure he is reputable?

Polygraph is scheduled for Sunday. BH is coming with me. He has been given all of the information to research the administrator as well.

I know you ignore what I have to say because I think you are still being wayward here with us.

Only piece of advice, don't fail that poly. He is banking so much on it. This is your last shield about your memory.

Something you can fix, give him back his religion which is more important to him than you.

You early on threw it in his face a lot. You need to go talk to him about your behavior. You have taken away his faith in you, give him back his religion.

Just something to talk to him about.

I would say good luck, but I think you could fix this if you would listen. Go read Neanderthal's and Lifedestroyer's threads. That is how it could have been. This doesn't have to be that hard. Just drop your fear and trust him.

[This message edited by DoinBettr at 9:44 AM, August 16th (Friday)]

As I said before no one can see the forest for all the trees you keep planting.

Once again, wether you are lying or have a faulty memory is irrelevant with regard to the most likely outcome. In either case you are an unsafe person for anyone to be in a relationship with. In either case the only safe method of dealing with you would be distance from you.

So, if you are truly unable to remember, I pity you because it is likely it is going destroy your marriage eventually.

If you are lying, then you have a chance of saving this thing . Come clean now. Totally completely.

Not sure if it’s too late but there is a chance. Otherwise you are simply putting of the inevitable.

I’m reading all of your posts. I’m not responding immediately or at all because I’m taking it in. I’m not trying to not do I want to defend my actions- there is NO defense. Irregardless of forgetfulness, lying, amnesia, TBI, neurological damage, evilness, FOO crap or any reason/excuse- I understand that the bottom line is my BH has suffered through 6 months of TT at my expense. This is what I’ve done to him. I see the pain I’ve caused and that is only the tip of the iceberg that he allows for me to see. It’s agonizing.

I went through anyone else I was speaking with at the time and remembered yet ANOTHER AP.

No way?! Another one?

I told BH I was a serial cheater- I had denied it up until now. I didn’t believe that I was.

Let there be light ... sound ... drums .... guitar... Arghh, let there be rock!

I feel like someone who woke up in a hospital bed and was told that I killed a pedestrian while texting and driving. I did this horrible thing. I’m trying to own what I did and do all the work necessary ... I know the pedestrian died, I trust the person who told me I was texting and driving bc it was something I did often - but I don’t remember the point of impact. This is the first analogy I can think of to explain the memory I somehow « erased ». And then slowly bits and pieces come back but even I question the authenticity of those memories.

Thankfully that should not happen to you since you do not text even when you do not drive.

I guess my point is that for those following our story, you deserve to know. Especially since it seems you’ve all known all along.

Yes, we have a well tuned bullshit detector indeed. We had adolescent children, adolescent spouses ... Practice makes perfect.

Once again, whether you are lying or have a faulty memory is irrelevant with regard to the most likely outcome. In either case you are an unsafe person for anyone to be in a relationship with. In either case the only safe method of dealing with you would be distance from you.

Read this. It DOES NOT MATTER if this is due to faulty memory or flat out lying. You are NOT SAFE for your BH. What are YOU going to do about that?