SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm bowing out.

You guys go and continue selling OP a bill of goods.

Thumos- and of course it's hard for you to wrap your mind around this if women enjoy sex as much as men. We do, I agree with you on this. In fact, we have the capacity to maybe even enjoy it more than men in the right circumstances.

But, how we are treated during it can range from - it was really fantastic, it was really fantastic no climax, to it was not very good but that's okay we'll try again tomorrow, to holy shitballs batman, that was some traumatic shit that stirred up feelings from being abused as a child. I am NOT correlating SA victims are welcome to have affairs. I am saying if you get someone who really starts treating you like you are not a person all the sudden, it brings up all that trauma again. We are being treated like we don't matter, we are not being considered at all. And, that is some fear inducing deep trauma shit. To make it worse, a lot of us were taught to be polite/people pleasers and can't often find it within us to make it stop. It's like when the SA was happening, you shut your mind off and wait for it to end.

[This message edited by hikingout at 1:09 PM, November 12th (Thursday)]

To me this is a bit like someone carrying out a hit and run and then saying they felt so bad about what they were doing while they were doing it and then in retrospect felt even worse about running that person over. Our response to a perpetrator like that would be “yeah that sucks for you. You’re still a hit and run driver who ran over an innocent person on purpose.”

My completely unscientific guess about what happened is this:

She wanted to see if she still had "it." She wanted to feel sexy, desirable, whatever. She built this ex up in her mind. Remembered all the good times, he became this fantasy figure. She plotted all this thinking the sex was going to be this mind-bliwing affirmation of her desirability. Right up until the moment it happened and then reality set in that it was just sex, average ass sex, there were no unicorns, it wasn't special, and she had betrayed her spouse, who is the one person she should protect, respect, and cherish, and become a cheater. For something tawdry that did not deliver that high she was chasing. I can completely see how that would be an awful feeling, without it being a scary or terrifying event. I can see going through the motions of dinner, etc., because she'd already screwed the pooch, no pun intended.

Not sure if this is even a helpful take 8 pages in, but I just feel this scenario is possible.

To me this is a bit like someone carrying out a hit and run and then saying they felt so bad about what they were doing while they were doing it and then in retrospect felt even worse about running that person over. Our response to a perpetrator like that would be “yeah that sucks for you. You’re still a hit and run driver who ran over an innocent person on purpose.”

I can understand that. The shit is infuriating, of course it is.

But, we really do not know how this revelation came about. I am still going through disclosure right now, not the big nuggets but the smaller more detailed points now. And, it's very different if you are asking a question and they are weighing in then if they are telling you something themselves.

We don't know how that went down here. So, lets say, she confessed on her own. Did she include this in her confession? Or did he ask a lot of questions and she answered them? There are too many assumptions about whether or not she said this to minimize or she told the truth.

For example, I never said to my husband "I know it's horrible, but I never had an orgasm". That would have been a really big load of crap to lay on him. Right? Like that's supposed to make him feel better. But, he asked the question and I answered it truthfully. I could see him coming to this site and summarizing what happened and mentioning that. Then, immediately the piling on starts. When, all I did was answer a question truthfully.

This is in the same way that he by all accounts had ED with the AP on numerous occasions. He has never had ED with me, not even post DDAY. So, I can either say "Well, that doesn't add up because I have never seen that happen to him" or accept that he was having a different reaction for whatever reason. Is it cause for me to celebrate? Hell no, he fucked some other skank behind my back for a year or more. It doesn't alleviate it, but it doesn't mean that the detail has to be true or false for me to be equally upset. And, he never said "I had ED a lot so it doesn't count" because I would have thrown his ass out.

So, I see what you are saying, but I think we can not read that far into things unless the poster specifies the context in which this detail was told.

[This message edited by hikingout at 1:23 PM, November 12th (Thursday)]

To me this is a bit like someone carrying out a hit and run and then saying they felt so bad about what they were doing while they were doing it and then in retrospect felt even worse about running that person over. Our response to a perpetrator like that would be “yeah that sucks for you. You’re still a hit and run driver who ran over an innocent person on purpose.”

But isn't this the sentiment that everyone has? I have yet to read a post that could even be in the realm of implication that OP's WW is somehow less at fault or not 100% responsible. I have not read post that could reasonably imply that if she didn't like the sex it should give her brownie points or push OP towards R. The fact that she did or did not enjoy does not change anything about how it impacted him or how he feels about her betrayal, even OP said as much.

For me part of this is pretty straightforward and clear:

Your wife arranged to meet up with her ex and did not tell you who she was going to meet with.

She planned, pursued and executed her day including going back to the hotel and having sex with him.

The sex very well could have not lived up to her imagination of what it was going to be like - she used the word traumatic - I think it was more a case of being disappointed with the result.

She carried on with dinner plans because it was not a big deal to her.

While the sex did not live up to her expectation, it must have been (more than) slightly enjoyable.

Its obvious she did not tell you immediately because she did not want to leave the marriage. She would gain nothing from leaving the marriage.

Now this is what I am not clear about:

Why did she tell you? After a few months?

The rest of my thoughts could be summed up in one phrase - she is trying to minimise the damage.

You are well within your rights to be concerned.

I refuse to believe that most of the time sex is unpleasurable for women or men.

Thumos, man I agree with 98% of what you say, but I guess you never had a slump buster back in college that was so bad you wouldn't even tell your buddies if they had a gun to your head..???

Yes, bad sex can happen. For both men and women.

Now the point of the OP was whether or not his WW was telling the truth about the actual act, in a ONS scenario. One does not have to have a willing suspension of disbelief to believe that the sex could have been underwhelming, or even bad...

Now, curl up in a fetal position level trauma, followed by I hope they have a nice salad w/ a good balsamic vinaigrette???? That's where I have to call bullshit and say she is minimizing. And that's all it is...

Now, curl up in a fetal position level trauma, followed by I hope they have a nice salad w/ a good balsamic vinaigrette???? That's where I have to call bullshit and say she is minimizing. And that's all it is...

For the OP, is there sexual assault or abuse in her background? That is the only way to me this makes sense. I have had experiences that triggered these responses because of the parallels I mentioned in one of my posts earlier. And, keep in mind many women are assaulted by people in their family or close to their family. I had full on family dinners with one of my abusers on the same day as the abuse.

Again, not saying this is the case, but it can make sense under different contexts and I don't think we have enough here to know.

Hey HO...I'm down to 9:34/mi.....whatcha got?

Slapjacks - I injured my toe really badly recently, and it's still healing. My best is 9:11, my typical hovers around 10:00. But, I do some walking in the middle, I follow the Run/Walk method because I was already old when I started. Would like to do a half when this COVID mess clears.

end T/J

Our response to a perpetrator like that would be “yeah that sucks for you. You’re still a hit and run driver who ran over an innocent person on purpose.”

I think most have, in one form or another, messaged that her reasons are very suspect and possibly irrelevant given the facts. She is at fault. She is to blame. She is responsible. She is the source of her BH's trauma. There is no excuse or deflecting the seriousness and blame for that.

But, I don't think the OP is asking us to weigh in on if she is to blame or if she is at fault. He is asking if her account of how she felt in that moment sounds plausible. Most seem to think not. It is impossible to ever know how someone feels. All we can do is opine over what they did, not how they say they felt, against our perception of what is reasonable. I think most have said what she did was nothing less than the standard cheater shitstorm creating choice. She is at fault. 100%.

But, but, the OP is grappling with, is it true or not. Impossible to say. I lean in on it not being 100% true. But what then? 10%? 50%? 87%?

This is why, to me, the real issue is not fault or accountability, that is 100% on her. What seems to be the issue not being addresses is, what does it matter to the OP. If it was a satisfying engagement to her, would that be worse that of it wasn't? Is that the issue? Or, is the issue that, satisfying or not, he is understandably obsessed with whether or not she is telling the truth.Is this an issue of she enjoyed it, or she is lying and I can't stand the lying?

If it is the latter, then the whole debate over her enjoyment, or not, is moot. The OP has not weighed in on the focus of his long standing angst. The lie, or the potential that she liked it. If it is that he is at the end of his roper over what he believes is a many years long lie, all the discussion about women and sex seems tangential, at best.

Can the OP live with what he seems confident is a lie, or not. If she admits that she has been dishonest and says it was not as bad as she has portrayed.......what then. That seems to be the core issue, not whether women like sex as much as men or how they are different.

Firstly every part of the pre sex was a shitty premeditated move on her part and you have every right to leave / expect boundaries / expect groveling

Women are far more complex than men - any number of stats on this . A very large percentage of women have never got anything out of sex but secondary gain. Rape often follows consensual kissing making out etc .

None of this means you have to forgive her but if i were you id focus on the what the fucks leading upto the sex and if you can be okay with her explanations then leave the rest for her and her therapist to work out .

[This message edited by siracha at 2:20 PM, November 12th (Thursday)]

This whole thing just underscores the entire problem with infidelity. The trust is so broken by this act that nothing can just be believed. The one person you should be able to believe such a tale from is the person you can least believe.

Thumos, I have had absolutely terrible sex that I regretted before it was over and I really like sex. I couldn't even feel my DDay RA sex because of the state of mind I was in. I almost watched it happen more than felt it happen and had no coherent opinions on it until I was driving home and regained some kind of sanity. Given that it doesn't matter at all what that was like for me as my XWH isn't here and I'm divorced, I'd say if I had enjoyed it. I don't even feel guilt over it after the enormity of what he had done. I'm pretty certain I would have enjoyed it if instead of on my worst day I'd run into that guy today and hooked up with him. And you know what, I never expected my XWH to believe that even as I was telling it. I wouldn't expect him to believe that ever in his life. I know I certainly didn't believe a minimizing word he spoke.

I doubt we helped much, gutpunch.

I said I was done...but JFC, I freaking KNEW that someone would eventually throw out the "r" word! That was the only logical next step for the "she hated every minute of it" crowd.

I have had absolutely terrible sex that I regretted before it was over and I really like sex.

The last time I had sex with XWH. I want to puke every time I think about it.

On a completely different level than the "maintenance sex" I think it's normal to have in a relationship, where it's not your best effort, but you're tired/dont have much time but it's still nice to connect.

Some sex is just REALLY bad.

People can hate things including sexually but what has been described here is “ Frozen in fear” and “traumatic” in other words the experience of a rape victim .

People can hate things including sexually but what has been described here is “ Frozen in fear” and “traumatic” in other words the experience of a rape victim

This is exactly what I was fucking saying in my other post. Poor little "victim", damsel in distress, or timid lost forest creature didn't deserve bad sex while cheating. Poor wittle thang, let's feel sorry for the cheater and definitely not hold her accountable. She went to a lot of trouble and took a helluva risk and had bad sex. She can fuck the guy, go to dinner, and still retroactively claim trauma.

That was the only logical next step for the "she hated every minute of it" crowd.

GoldenR - I don't see a crowd who is saying she hated every minute of it. I see a crowd that has been put in a position to defend why we think it's *possible* that she set up sex only to find it was traumatic or bad in some way. That does happen. And, I am inclined to believe that some of the men here who don't understand it might be men who would never dream of doing some of the things other men do. In other words, not all men are good, not all are nice to women they sleep with.

But, clearly the OP has said his wife is not claiming rape. She is more claiming to have a negative emotional response, which is plausible. We sometimes do not know how we feel about something until we actually do them.

On a completely different level than the "maintenance sex" I think it's normal to have in a relationship, where it's not your best effort, but you're tired/dont have much time but it's still nice to connect.

Agree. There are lots of ways to enjoy sex, but it boggles my mind there are people who think there is no way not to enjoy sex.

[This message edited by hikingout at 2:38 PM, November 12th (Thursday)]

People can hate things including sexually but what has been described here is “ Frozen in fear” and “traumatic” in other words the experience of a rape victim .

I had actually thought that people responding used those words - when I went back and read the OP - yeah, that negates my theory that she just wasn't enjoying it. Unless, and this is a stretch, she was frozen in fear/traumatized at the realization that she'd just crossed a hard line into infidelity.