SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I have never once met a woman proud of how complex her sexual biology is , i was a little taken aback that my words were taken as a diss to men or female self congratulation.

Totally! It's completely a detriment. I wish it was a lot easier.

I think we can all agree to three things

1. Rape is a possibility

2. Premeditated cheating is a certainty

3. Both could have happened in which case count me sympathetic to a degree .

But lets be clear that the betrayed person has our full sympathy and as i said earlier no obligation to forgive and stay married even if no 1 does turn out to be true.

Hiking, I probably project some of my shit onto you too and I apologize for doing that. I sincerely mean that, I don't want to cause you any grief. I know you're dealing with a lot now and I definitely don't want to add to it.

Honestly, sometimes the things you say sound so much like my wife it's freaky. There are quite a few similarities in our situations too. This time of year is my d day season too. I found out a couple of weeks before Thanksgiving and I am probably a bit on edge now.

And my WW had a 6-7mo A not a 2mo A. She maintained they had sex 10 times and she never had an orgasm. She adamantly stuck to her story. I called bullshit and a polygraph confirmed what she was saying. It didn't make me feel better, it really made the whole thing seem a little more pathetic to me.

I also told my wife I wasn't going to be faithful going forward. I used those exact words. Told her twice actually and had an 18mo "RA" with an old FWB that was newly single roughly 18mo after d day. To be completely honest, I would not consider this cheating. I told her beforehand and made no effort to hide what I was doing. I did have a ~4.5yr LTA about 3 years later. I did confess on my own a few years later without any possibility of being outed. I had another A opportunity and say the path laid out before me and I recognized how fucked up I was. I was thinking D was the only answer but I was having a hard time going through with it. I thought telling her would force her hand and she would be the one to get the D train rolling. The truth is I didn't handle the betrayal well. I focused more on vengeance and punishment instead of healing and repair. I did some stupid macho bullshit where I didn't get counselling or really discuss it with anyone, not even my wife. I thought I could deal with it on my own but I was wrong. Instead, I let the wound fester and I hurt a lot of people, including myself. I now have done therapy, books, workbooks, EMDR, and an online group thing. We are discussing going to MC now. In my MH situation, we seem to have primarily stuck with the original sin so to speak. She concentrates on the WS side and I focus on the BS side. I think I am on the right track on the BS aspect but I know I have work to do on the WS side. So now that you know my tale of woe in a nutshell you can give me shit more accurately

Well, I'm feeling increasingly great about my prospects after divorce then!

Seriously, find a divorced lady whose husband gave zero fucks about her pleasure for 15 years and then just, you know, CARE. She will adore you. I speak from experience.

/end threadjack

Siracha,

The OP says that his wife said she wasn't raped, so I do think we might could rule that out.

I do think it's possible that she has been in the past. As I said, when someone dehumanizes you sexually it can bring back those feelings of trauma even if the person you with hasn't raped you.

Totally! It's completely a detriment. I wish it was a lot easier.

Omg yes I get so frustrated with myself.

Buck,

Sorry, I did have the details wrong and for some reason I didn't think she knew about your second affair which was pissing me off worse. Truce.

I’m sorry, Thumos, I’ll clarify because I left out a question in my post. I meant to ask, would you please point out where other posters have posited justifications or excuses? I ask because yes, I do seem to have missed that.

All right, I went back through and actually couldn't find any. I stand corrected.

I think I was more triggered by the idea that it was possible she's telling the truth bc many (to me at least) made it sound like this possibility was all but a fait accompli. Of course it's possible, but I find this possibility to be exceedingly low in probability.

Now that's just how I read it, and yes I'm very skeptical about her claims as they have been reported to us by her BH here. If she was "frozen in fear" and just let it happen and couldn't wait for it to be over, then I think it's reasonable to assume she was basically supplying starfish sex to the AP. But he stopped and went to get a condom. So either she asked him to get a condom or he offered it. In which case we can at least read into this that he was probably not being rough or tone deaf with her. So if this AP had the presence of mind to get a condom, he doesn't notice she's laying there frigid and frozen in fear? Maybe he doesn't care, but then they clean up and go out for a lovely dinner?

Doesn't add up very well, now does it?

She's used such extreme and unqualified language ("frozen in fear" and deeply traumatic from start to finish - "she swears that every second if it was traumatic and horrible while it was happening") to describe the experience that seems very out of whack with the actual facts of how it was planned, carried out, how it transpired, her own deliberate aggressive actions to ensure sex, and what followed after that.

There's an incongruity that I think most will admit is striking and surely we can agree at least somewhat suspect.

Also probably filtering this through my own experience with my WW claiming she didn't plan the sex in our home, "it just happened" "It was a mistake" "that's what adults do!" "it was just one time" "it was meaningless sex" "it didn't mean anything" "I only did it because he was so persuasive" -- all the usual white noise that WW's seem to spew forth when they think they are patching up a gaping wound and "making it better" by minimizing.

And that my WW has tried to claim the sex was unpleasurable and she doesn't even know if AP ejaculated (yet she panicked when she realized I'd discovered a certain pair of panties and immediately snuck them away from me and washed them when she found where I'd hid them).

This has all been a real sticking point with me, I don't believe she's been truthful and I also don't believe my WW when she claims one time sex over at a minimum 6 weeks of physical activity. She also claims no other sexual activity of ANY KIND, not even groping, during that time.

So when I read a somewhat similar story of a BH dealing with at least a similar set of issues, it makes me want to caution him in very strong terms to be skeptical and to stick to his guns.

His gut is probably right.

[This message edited by Thumos at 4:47 PM, November 12th (Thursday)]

Ok, HO. You win. I give.

She did alllll those things

- online EA

- planned bogus trip to hang out with old girlfriend

- booked a room

- flew there

- invited him to her room

- took a shower

- came out in a robe and sat next to him on the bed

- went to eat with him afterwards

But she didn't want the sex, she just couldn't say no. And hated every second of it.

This is obviously the most likely scenario. With the second most likely being that she was raped.

[This message edited by GoldenR at 4:42 PM, November 12th (Thursday)]

Gutpunch33,

Your body and mind, using drinking, may be telling you your wife is still lying. Or at least you think she is.

(Seems a lot of the responses here don't involve you directly, but you can learn from these.)

BraveSirRoybn mentioned a POV that could fit to help answer some of the questions you have. Paraphrased, your wife went on a date with an old boyfriend with intention of finishing with sex etc. Then during the 'deed' had a change of heart. Possible. (BSR, Hope I got this correct)

Polygraph may help you here. MC/IC will for sure.

What you do know is she did lie, cheat, humiliate, shame you and your marriage. What your body/mind may want to know is she still doing it by still lying about it?

How did you find out about your WW? Did she confess out of the blue? or was she caught. (If you have mentioned this I missed it)

I feel your pain. Sucks.

Then during the 'deed' had a change of heart. Possible.

Great point, and certainly a lot different from the extreme language his WW has used. It's certainly probable that she began to be wracked with guilt as the act commenced and continued. That's different from being "frozen with fear" and traumatized by it.

GoldenR - I even think she wanted the sex, I just think it wasn’t for some reason what she expected. I don’t think she was raped by the AP either. You are exaggerating my position by like a lot.

Thumos- I completely understand what you are saying and how it triggered you. I am sorry if I made that worse. But you have to also understand that each situation is unique as well. I have a hard time doing that right now too so I totally get it.

I was convinced I was about to find out I had been cheated on our entire marriage, my gut wasn’t as much there as all the shit I had read here and some personal opinions I had gained since being here. We have to try and remember sometimes it is a lie, for other sometimes it’s what they have themselves convinced of. I don’t know which one this man falls under but I hope we get more info from him so some of this can become clearer. I fear a lot of us lost sight of helping him. I have to stop using this site as a distraction. It’s bad for me and bad for you all. For some r Asian it’s the only thing I find I can do that feels normal and that I can lose myself in. But it’s not helping me to get better using it this way. Anyway,, I am going to go home and attempt to be present with H and try and spend some time figuring this out. I have been avoiding a lot, and instead of cheating this time my coping mechanism is fighting with people on the internet. Time to evaluate that. Have a good evening all.

HO -

I don't attribute the rape claim to you. I've just seen it ?3? times on here now. Not even sure if it was all the same person.

So of she wanted it but it wasn't what she expected, if that's your take, how does that go with telling OP that yes she was possibly frozen with fear during the act without saying, "although unlikely"?

Well, this thread has been somewhat beneficial for me personally. First, after looking it up, I learned what fait accompli means and I can't wait to drop that in convo with the wife somehow. Thanks Thumos and I think your assessment of the situation is spot on.

Secondly, I learned that my wife is a complete fucking idiot. Even more so than I originally thought. We had a great sex life "before". She always got the O bell rung, and more often than not it was more than one ring per session. We never stopped having sex during her A, which has always disgusted me, and I never really knew why. After reading some of the stories from women in this thread I think I now have a pretty good idea why. She better have meatloaf on the table and rub my fucking feet when I get home.

I think she's doing a bit of projecting of how she feels about it NOW onto how she felt about it THEN. I doubt she was frozen in fear, but I don't doubt that it wasn't great. She may be "frozen" when she thinks of it now, but she wasn't then.

I think you should take a deep look at why you are struggling 8 years later. You should be in a better place. Sorry to put it bluntly, but life is too short to spend a full decade on infidelity recovery. You are better off divorcing if she can't or won't help you feel safe, or if it's just a deal-breaker for you.

I think she's doing a bit of projecting of how she feels about it NOW onto how she felt about it THEN. I doubt she was frozen in fear, but I don't doubt that it wasn't great. She may be "frozen" when she thinks of it now, but she wasn't then.

This was one of my main points and thank you for summing it up better than I could, annanew.

Sorry to put it bluntly, but life is too short to spend a full decade on infidelity recovery

Eye opening for me, thank you. I've already spent four years on this in my life, and I don't want to spend another four years on it. Time to fish or cut bait.

OP, if you're like me, the lies are eating at you almost as badly as the actual acts. If she isn't being transparent and authentic with you, then would you like to spend another 8 years circling around that drain?

[This message edited by Thumos at 5:44 PM, November 12th (Thursday)]

How do we know she did not force herself on him, looking at him as an easy piece, to quote HO.

The types of assumptions or proposed possibilities demonstrate a lot of stereotypes about men and women.

As a younger guy, in really good physicalmshape back then, I got propositioned by lots of women. One showed up at my dorm room, demanding I have sex with her.

Another, my female boss ,basically jumped me, and started kissing me.

So, maybe she raped him. Maybe he was frozen in fear and traumatized, too.

Hellfire:

Your contribution to this thread was above and beyond. It is noted and appreciated.

Maybe it is more complex, but, they have the advantage of being multi -orgasmic with no refractory time.

And, based on my experience and my friends, plenty of women want sex with no emotional connection and plenty of guys need emotional intimacy to enjoy sex.

This assertion that it is so different in this regard for the genders is a myth, IMO. Just like the one that says women cheat for different reasons than men. People cheat for a variety of reasons and both genders include folks that want emotional intimacy and folks who just want hamstrings sex.

When I started dating after divorce, I was shocked that many woman wanted to have sex right away. Like 1-3 dates and they wanted to be off to the races. No way I was comfortable with that, peeling my clothes off with some casual acquaintance like that.

She's used such extreme and unqualified language ("frozen in fear" and deeply traumatic from start to finish - "she swears that every second if it was traumatic and horrible while it was happening") to describe the experience that seems very out of whack with the actual facts of how it was planned, carried out, how it transpired, her own deliberate aggressive actions to ensure sex, and what followed after that.

I think I’m wondering what makes it extreme or unqualified. I know that once I started really digging in therapy and addressing my trauma, particularly my sexual trauma, I was able to see just how dissociative my sexual history had been overall. I can look back and remember those feelings - a numbness, cold body, feeling frozen, feeling trapped, unsafe, etc. It doesn’t sound hyperbolic to me.

And yes, I planned just like she did, carried out my plan, shared a meal, a room and bed even. So yes, again, it sounds plausible to me based on my experiences as an emotionally and sexually unhealthy person.

———

That’s why I asked about CSA, OP, although I do think that with your wife’s abuse history she could still have that same type of response. Hellfire discussed just that in her really incredible post.

I also think josiep gave you great advice re: drinking. Alcohol always, always had me circling the drain.

[This message edited by leavingorbit at 8:41 PM, November 12th (Thursday)]