SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm not a fan of ultimatums either, however boundaries and consequences are VERY applicable in nearly ALL situations. If you have not read "Boundaries and Consequences 101 for all new BS", please do so, it currently sits at the bottom of this sub-forum and will give you plenty of ideas on moving forward.

The goal from my perspective is to get YOUR needs out there and give them the opportunity to meet them. As stated previously:

She is still has an identity as "me" & not "we".

The longer this persists, the more difficult it becomes.

Something doesn't smell right here...

This "therapist" suggesting she move out for a week or so. Really?

Did YOU actually hear the therapist say this? Or did your wife tell you she said it?

I don't buy it.

She's getting rid of her phone and only using her work phone. Hmmm....how sweet. And convenient, since the bill probably goes to the company. And she can easily erase text, etc before she arrives home. How would you know. No access to the bill.

And the Other Husband? Do you actually know the guy? Like are you SURE you had this g/f's actual husband's phone number? His response to this seems "off" to me. Even my serial-cheating X-POS-H would have been pissed if he thought I had been cheating. It was "ok" in his mind to cheat when ever he got the "itch", but not the other way around. And if they were "swingers" I would think he would say something more along the lines of, "We have an agreement" or something like that. What he said sounds like something his wife would have a buddy say to YOU to cover her and your wife's ass.

I talked with the other husband and he's not upset about it. Says he has had a few things on the side too, and that's how the mariahe is, WTF! I told my wife there is no way we can associate ourselves with these two, because they are toxic toxic toxic.

Did you actually speak to him personally - hear his voice? Or was this through email? If through email, I think you weren't really talking to him.

I know the other husband enough where I'm 100% it was him on the phone. I don't know if the counselor for sure suggested this or not. I know everything sounds fishy and not true, but I'm going to have to wait and see how she acts the next week to see if this is all BS.

I have told her exactly where I stand and what will happen if the line is crossed or even touched again. If it happens she is lieing, I'll find out (might not be as soon as I want), but I don't think she will be able to go long without me finding out if I'm looking into it as deeply as I will be. If the line is touched, I'm out, no excuses, no more talking, nothing. I won't even help her move her shit out. I'll tell every person we know exactly what happened and that will be that. It hurts so much to even talk like this, but I know it's the only way. I won't take any more and I think she knows that. If she doesn't, than I can't help her or us. If she does something again, I'll know she doesn't want us to be and that will be enough for me to get going and it's over. This has been the worse experience of my life.

Thanks everyone.

((IUHoosier)) - virtual hug

Just wanted to say that you are doing great with what you are dealing with. Personally, if my WS was going to a hotel for a week for "time alone" after an A. I'd put a VAR in her car and begin the 180. If they talk on the phone and you have a key you can check it when she is staying at the hotel.

This has been the worse experience of my life.

(((IUHoosier))) We know. We have all been in your shoes. It is very very traumatic.

It is very difficult to accept that our life partner would do something like this to us.

I know you can't even believe that your WW did what she did in Mexico, let alone that she may do anything more in the coming weeks.

I get it. I caught my WH & coworker OW having lunch together, a couple of months after Dday. I couldn't believe my eyes. He was saying he wanted to R----how could he continue to see her?

He was in the FOG, a kind of temporary insanity.

Your WW is still in the FOG.(That's no excuse, but I am just trying to explain to you why they are acting like they are addicted to some kind of drug.)

Most of them are not able to snap out of it right away.

It's up to you where you want to draw the line.

It took my going to the lawyer & starting divorce proceedings, & taking my wedding ring off & handing it to WH, for him to stop all contact with OW. It still hurts that he didn't choose me & the kids immediately.

There are many many posts on this site as to why someone cheats. I really believe that it all boils down to immaturity, selfishness (they are picking the ego kibbles over you), entitlement, & opportunity.

Please believe that this was not your fault.

I don't think I can tell her it's either you stay here or we get a D. I will have a little time with her in the house to watch and see I guess.

This is a difficult scenario. One thing that helps with infidelities is that the stories have so many common elements and the details don't change a lot.

My instinct says separating is a bad idea. I can't imagine a therapist recommending separation unless he or she firmly believes it's necessary from what she said in session.

So what did she say in session? This doesn't sound like it's about the Canadian idiot. It's more about what motivated her to go to singles night in Mexico. She may agree that GF is toxic, but she knew, beforehand, what was on the menu. She just didn't go through with it when it was first presented.

I'm afraid this is an entirely different place, and that may be a good thing and it may be a bad thing. On the positive side, your wife believes in monogamy. On the extremely negative side, she is considering leaving you.

I hope I don't take too much shit here, and I hope I'm right, but I would advocate a different approach here than the approach designed to work to handle infidelity.

Ultimatums don't work well because each person has different goals and breaking points. What works better are internal ultimatums - meaning you have your own breaking point at which your actions change. You head toward divorce rather than reconciliation.

I don't think your breaking point has been hit. The question is what could save your marriage. If you treat your wife as if the standard affair remorse-reconciliation on your terms is expected, it doesn't solve why she and her therapist feel she needs space right now.

There's something she wants to hear from you that she isn't hearing. I'm not talking about begging or pleading for her not to leave. I think she feels unwanted or unappreciated.

So, my recommendation is that you introduce the concept of marriage counseling from the perspective that something got your marriage into the place it was when she started down this dark path that led to Canadians in Mexico. I think you're catching this early enough that it might be the better approach.

As for toxic GF and the open marriage, yes, I've heard of this. It's not as uncommon as you'd think. I encountered a woman like that in my newly-single life. We didn't sleep together or anything, but we talked a lot and she once sent pictures I didn't ask for. I heard enough to know it's a different world and one that wouldn't work for me in the slightest.

I would agree with "Red Sox" and think I would elaborate. There are many bad marriages, and not all bad marriages experience infidelity. Thus, the A is not your fault. But to feel safe and move forward it is important to repair the marriage and figure out what things from your relationship created an atmosphere that allowed infidelity.

I'm also not sure what you decided about the week apart and the hotel room. It seems very many people here on SI have concerns about that. However, I think would be very reasonable to be honest and open with your wife about what you need. You have been hurt and betrayed, and you need to feel safe. Her having the freedom of a week in a hotel room by herself to have space does not make you feel safe. She needs to value your needs.

Good luck. Sending you strength and support

I don't think anyone is advocating an ultimatum in this instance. I think we are all just saying that this separation "suggested by the therapist" sounds extremely convenient and fishy. Truly, I think there is more to this story, and at the very least, your WW wants to take the single life for a test drive to see if she likes it.

And, I agree with the other posters that have said if the BS needs a separation to think things through, that's understandable. But, the WS should be trying to regain your trust and rebuild the marriage. That is not usually accomplished from a hotel room. It's staying with the BS, being transparent, showing true remorse and trying everything in their power to rebuild the marriage. I think Craig2001 summed it up perfectly?

Her #1 priority should NOT be her needs, it should be your healing, & repairing the damage she has done to the marriage.

She is still has an identity as "me" & not "we".

I don't think anyone is advising jumping immediately to D. Only that your WS's actions are NOT those of one that "gets it" and wants to repair the marriage. She is still seriously in the fog, IMHO. And taking the single life for a spin in a hotel room will not help clear that fog.

Only you can decide what your own dealbreakers are, and how YOU are going to make decisions based on her ACTIONS.

IU Hoosier

One last question . How confident are you that she is telling the truth about this not being physical sigh other guy other than kissing. Hard to believe she is alone in Mexico with girlfriend who is banging one of the Canadians and your wife was just playing a little kissy face.

And as someone else has said would you consider driving from Canada to see a woman who only kissed you a few times??

I doubt it. So in your discussions I would determine what type affair you are dealing with

I'm not sure how to describe my feelings right now. I am sitting in my workshop (I enjoy building things) and am working on some furniture. I have been sitting in my stool for the last hour just exhausted. Not physically, but emotionally exhausted. I just am sitting here and can't pull enough together to even put full thoughts together. I never have felt this way, but I guess the best way to out it is "emotionally drained". I just can't think.

I have never seen this side of my wife before, but it's almost impossible to think she would be capable of so much hurt and damage. She use to be the one I would go to if I needed the pep up or vice a versa. It was usually her coming to me with stuff, but it was nice to know I had somebody that cared that much for me as I did for them.

IUHoosier

Hang in there. You have and are still going through a draining process, with an unknown outcome. Many of those responding to you have been there and are here for moral support. I know some of the posts can be overwhelming but we are not there and don't know your wife so we are throwing to you all the information we have so that you can choose what applies to you.

I hope you keep posting so we can all try to help you get through this. Assuming you are in workshop and wife is somewhere in house. You need your space but please do not let your guard down. He may not have her work phone number if you believe that , but she knows how to reach him.

If you need help. There are people on this forum who are real tech experts if you need help in keeping eye on her.. I am not one of those.

The sheer number of posts to your thread should tell you how much support you have.

You can also PM me anytime if you want. I have been in your shoes but did not catch it as early as you

Stay strong

Fellow IU Hoosier

IUHoosier ,

I am praying that you are luckier than I was.

You don't know what the outcome will be,

but please believe that you will not always feel this way.

The pain is very raw right now---I remember it well. That's why I

came here to help someone else thru it.

I promise you that one way or another, it will get better.

It is possible for you & your WW to find each other again.

There are reconciled couples on this site who have a stronger marriage than ever, & are happy again. But it takes a lot of work. My WH & I are still working towards that. I don't know if we will be able to successfully R. I am hoping to keep our family together.

There are divorced survivors here, who make a happy life for themselves. You are strong & smart, & you will too. You will survive this, just like we all have.

Sending you strength.

IU Hooiser,

During all of your years before this Mexico vacation, did you have any idea of foul play on your wifes part at all? Just funny that she could change so quickly - especially if she knew this girl all this time and it still sounds like she is still messed up with her thoughts of what she is thinking of doing. I wouldn't trust her out of my sight. Sorry for feeling this way but I've gone through this before.

I'm not sure how to describe my feelings right now. I am sitting in my workshop (I enjoy building things) and am working on some furniture.

I felt the exact same way. For me it wasnt furniture but electronics. I would just sit there and stare.

It is possible for you & your WW to find each other again.

I believe that is a strong possibility.

How did the weekend go IUHoosier. Hope you are ok.

The weekend was rough. We talked about how I did not think the seperate living would be the best right now. Mostly because she needed to earn some level of trust back before we took that route. We are still working through that.

She told me last night that she "loves" me, but doesn't know if she really loves me any longer. This obviously hurt a lot and I'm not sure if this is the truth or her fog blocking her.

IU Hoosier

I know the week end was rough. Her comments are not encouraging in that if you agree to this separation I think she is basically telling you she wants to be with either the Canadian or another man to see if she still " loves" you. I still think you need to find out what the other girlfriends know and if any of them are also giving her a sympathetic ear and encouraging her.

Are you SURE she is not still communicating with the Canadian?

I'm not sure of anything. I don't think she is, but if she wants to, I'm sure she can find a way.

Not physically, but emotionally exhausted. I just am sitting here and can't pull enough together to even put full thoughts together. I never have felt this way, but I guess the best way to out it is "emotionally drained". I just can't think.

You are not sleeping are you? This feeling is from sleep deprivation, and makes us much less able to control our thoughts, and emotions. YOU need to call your Dr about this ASAP. It really makes a big difference when you can get a solid 5 hours a night. You will feel stronger, and things will make more sense.

She told me last night that she "loves" me, but doesn't know if she really loves me any longer. This obviously hurt a lot and I'm not sure if this is the truth or her fog blocking her.

YUP definitely Foggy thinking. I would make sure that she isn't in contact with the joker from Canada, and that toxic friend. Something is keeping the foggy thinking alive, and it might just be her withdrawing from the constant thrill of being made to feel sexy, pretty, wanted or whatever ego kibbles she was getting from the douche.

Let her know that she needs to figure that out, and that you aren't her back up plan.

Your right this is incredibly difficult to go through, but like the rest of us. YOU will survive it, and be a smarter, stronger, better man for it.