SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This is a time of painful exploration for you, but you will have highs to balance out the lows. So you're on dating sites, right? Being ghosted is not unusual. I've been ghosted plenty on dating sites. As for punching too high or too low, I don't know without knowing more about the women you're into. I saw a picture of you somewhere on this site, so I can look at you and say that you are not ugly and you are not "too fat". Beyond that, you are an artist and are very gifted with words. You are clearly very intelligent. You have a great deal to offer in the dating world. You will find that there is a pretty significant range of women you can attract.

You want operative advice? Or you want the feel good answer? Others will probably provide the feel goods, so I'll tell you what worked for me, read "The Game" and "The Mystery Method". And then apply those techniques as much as possible with whatever amount (or lack thereof) lying that you can stomach. No, it's not all about how to pick up and dump women, it's about how to generate attraction and how to move that attraction along into a relationship (which, in those books, will be "sex" but just read "relationship" instead, if that's what your after). You can throw in "No More Mr. Nice Guy" too for more reading, that's a good book as well.

Look, I'll tell you, as a young man, I had all sorts of problems with women. Couldn't generate attraction, couldn't close, couldn't get a 2nd date. The problem was I wasn't wearing "makeup". I was the beautiful (well, OK, decent looking) woman going out for night on the town in a t-shirt 4 sizes too big, overalls, and covered in cow poop from a day working the field. I didn't need a pep talk, I needed to know where Macy's was, some new clothes, and a good makeup artist. You want to be attractive to women, find out what women find attractive. And the best way to do that, unfortunately, is to ask men who are very good with women, which, yes, generally means players and cads.

RIO, I think all that pickup artist crap really, truly does you a disservice.

Numbers games and all that jazz work if you just want some pussy, but they are the worst possible way to try and actually connect with someone if you want to date them.

By definition, you are being a fake version of yourself. Most women looking for a LTR are going to be smart enough to see that, and the ones who aren't? You're letting them fall in love with a facade. You will never be truly seen or loved as yourself. Is that what you truly want?

You honestly sound like my ex husband and that's not a good place to be. If you leave yourself open to making honest, genuine connections you actually can find women who like sex swinging from the chandeliers and also want LTRs. But we smell guys like you from a mile away.

Numbers games and all that jazz work if you just want some pussy, but they are the worst possible way to try and actually connect with someone if you want to date them.

You'll never get to "dating" if you don't generate the attraction first. You can get on/off the pick up bus whenever you want to, use the techniques to get someone interested and then drop the facade. Or keep the facade all the way until sex and then drop it. Or never drop it, although, that sounds impossible in practice. Kind of like never letting your husband see you without makeup, I'm sure some women do that, but man, that seems like a real nightmare for both partners!

Most women looking for a LTR are going to be smart enough to see that, and the ones who aren't?

And most men are smart enough to know it's a push up bra, heels and makeup and all those things are fake. Doesn't keep women from dressing nicely when they are going out to meet men for one simple reason. It works. We're dealing with forces way below our rational mind here, you can know all day long "that's a push up bra" but it doesn't stop the physical reaction, at least for me, of being aroused. That's why pick up is effective, because you're tapping into the more primal rules of attraction, similar to the same rules that affairs play into (scarcity, replaceable, etc).

completely counter to what my wife "fell for" from the OM. Let me tell you, it sounded nearly word for word like shit I would spin as a younger man. And she was into the "40's" category too

You can't compare a healthy, independent, single 40+ woman who wants to date to your CW in her A. Your CW was not a healthy, mature woman.

RIO, are you suggesting that if you were to become single again, you would get right back to lying to get women into bed?

Even the dude who wrote The Game has disavowed it. And turned out to be a fucked up sex addict, incidentally.

I have no idea about the other book, though I have little doubt that I've been the victim of it.

As a thinking being, I have no interest in being the target of someone's 'game'. Come at me real or go the fuck away. There is no faster way to lose my interest than to try that negging shit on me. I know what I'm worth and you won't talk me out of it with those stupid PUA techniques.

The women you find that those lines work on are not happy and healthy people. So what they really don't need is some douchebag fucking them up even worse.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 8:14 PM, November 19th (Tuesday)]

Am I the only BXW reading through all of this that is A) not even thinking about dating any time soon and B) When I do get back out there, I am WAY more interested in a guy that is good looking to me (and that varies based on the person) and who makes me laugh and can carry an intelligent conversation?

I just... I was never good at the "games" bullshit and frankly don't want to be. I am honest; sometimes uncomfortably so. If I get a whiff of gaming from a guy... yeah deuces. I'm out. Just be real, and authentic. Say what you mean and mean what you say. That is my advice for guys reading through this. That goes for a 'relationship' and goes for casual and ONS too. Just be fucking honest!!

I think part of the major issue is that honesty has fallen by the wayside because there are all these stupid fucking "rules" that everyone has to follow. Women have to be sexual but virginal, and wild but steady, and aggressive but not forward. Men have to be manly, and romantic and speak like poetry, but be able fix cars and do man shit but also bake cakes and hold kittens.... If everyone would just be who they are, and let others be who they are, wouldn't that be easier all around???

So many people buy into all the rules bullshit and thusly hide who they really are. And yeah, unfortunately for everyone that means that some really shitty people wear some really nice masks. I don't think anyone necessarily prefers "assholes", but how are you to know when everyone is so damn busy being who they think they should be??

Incarnate,

At this point in your life, I would focus on the sex first honestly. Even the good women out there were hurt by someone else and are going to be skittish. You can be Mr. Sincere AFTER you get laid, if you still want to be that guy.

Honestly, sex is the cornerstone of what I have with the GF. I changed my game, found different things inside of me. I would not call that "being myself." I made a new self. Be a better you, that is the way.

EllieKMAS:

You think the problem is perceived gender roles?

RIO, are you suggesting that if you were to become single again, you would get right back to lying to get women into bed?

Hopefully not, a lot of women here have said it's very different when you get older, and there are plenty of women out there who are happy to jump into bed without the lines/bravado of "the game". Is certainly isn't something I'd want to do to find another GF or LTR, that's for sure. I would try it the authentic way again, but, yes, to answer your question, if that didn't work (and, TBH, I have my doubts) yes, I'd go back to wearing makeup and high heels (slick words) to generate the attraction. I just would try to move from that person to the "real person" as quickly as possible (which, in a lot of ways is what I did with my W).

At this point in your life, I would focus on the sex first honestly. Even the good women out there were hurt by someone else and are going to be skittish. You can be Mr. Sincere AFTER you get laid, if you still want to be that guy.

This puts it well, if I had little/no success with the "real me" in generating attraction, I'd do something like this. Focus on the sex, and then pivot quickly to "is this relationship material or not".

I agree that it would be nice if people would be authentic. I don't see that happening. It's too dangerous. I was honest and authentic. My fch was not. I got duped.

On the flip side of that is that we need to see people for who they are and accept them as such. There's still this idea that a woman can and will change a man after he is married. Just stop. No more of this, he goes out drinking with his buddies every night, but he won't do that anymore once we're married, and then get pissed 5 years later when you are home alone every night taking care of the kids.

I agree that it would be nice if people would be authentic. I don't see that happening. It's too dangerous.

Is anyone authentic when dating? I think most people put on what they think is their very best show during the first few dates.

If you start dating someone you just met, I highly doubt they will show you who they really are until much later.

Is anyone authentic when dating? I think most people put on what they think is their very best show during the first few dates.

I tried "authentic dating" as a young man. It was quite unsuccessful. So I think that there are probably people who try it, and, unless they happen to actually be "Mr Interesting" figure out that "authentic" doesn't work that well.

But, I think you're point is valid. Who doesn't get dressed up, showered, smell good, best clothes, etc for those early dates? Is that the authentic you? I know, for me, it sure isn't. It's a mask. And if you're going to be wearing a mask anyway, might as well put on one that's likely to get you what you want from the date.

I dated a lot as a teenager. I would always put on my best clothes, best attitude, wash my car, and do whatever it took to be the best I could be. I don't know if it was a mating ritual or if I was simply trying to say to my date "You are important."

But, as I got older, got married, I slowly began to peel away my perfection complex. I hate playing dress up, so I put away my fine clothes, my suits stayed on the rack. I went for casual. Not casual slob, casual comfortable. This is who I really am. I don't like facades.

But, as I got older, got married, I slowly began to peel away my perfection complex. I hate playing dress up, so I put away my fine clothes, my suits stayed on the rack. I went for casual. Not casual slob, casual comfortable. This is who I really am. I don't like facades.

Me either, I don't enjoy people who put on airs either. Some days it's really hard to connect with that person I was during the affair. It's not disassociation, I own that I am that person, but just not understanding how much of that falseness I ignored. The more I understand about all of it, and the healthier I get the more I don't understand the mindset I was in. I know how I got there, I know I was making the decisions, but I really can't identify with the pure foolishness of it.

Putting lipstick on a pig, no matter what the pig is or what kind of lipstick you are trying to put on it, is a form of self deception I never want to encounter again. I think it's best to be authentic, it feels better, it provides better results, and it takes no cognitive dissonance or justification to naviagate. Be glad you are wholesome, 36. I know it has it's had it's downfalls and heartbreaks, but I see so many more upsides to it than anything else. You can wear your casual clothes and look in the mirror, hold your head high.

Putting lipstick on a pig, no matter what the pig is or what kind of lipstick you are trying to put on it, is a form of self deception I never want to encounter again. I think it's best to be authentic, it feels better, it provides better results, and it takes no cognitive dissonance or justification to naviagate.

Be glad you are wholesome, 36. I know it has it's had it's downfalls and heartbreaks, but I see so many more upsides to it than anything else. You can wear your casual clothes and look in the mirror, hold your head high.

I can't claim to be wholesome. But I can claim to be responsible for my own choices, good or bad. I've made so many mistakes in my life, I now ascribe to the wisdom of making better, safer, healthier choices. I am not much, but at least I am exactly who I am, and with no hidden agenda.

I'll take that over trying to impress someone by pretending to be someone else.

What are the qualifications of an asshole?

I dated a lot as a teenager. I would always put on my best clothes, best attitude, wash my car, and do whatever it took to be the best I could be. I don't know if it was a mating ritual or if I was simply trying to say to my date "You are important."

But, as I got older, got married, I slowly began to peel away my perfection complex. I hate playing dress up, so I put away my fine clothes, my suits stayed on the rack. I went for casual. Not casual slob, casual comfortable. This is who I really am. I don't like facades.

36years, if you waited until you got married, then didn't your wife wind up marrying the facade? This is exactly the point a lot of people make when they say "my spouse stopped trying" or feel like they changed afterwards.

36years, if you waited until you got married, then didn't your wife wind up marrying the facade? This is exactly the point a lot of people make when they say "my spouse stopped trying" or feel like they changed afterwards.

It's a good question. I think I was unpretentious even before marriage.