SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

let's feel sorry for the cheater and definitely not hold her accountable. She went to a lot of trouble and took a helluva risk and had bad sex. She can fuck the guy, go to dinner, and still retroactively claim trauma.

Why should we? How is this relevant to whether or not people can wish for something and then it regretting it or not being what they thought they wanted? Just because someone is not unapologetically condemning her behavior in every post does not mean they somehow approve or feel she deserves some sympathy. For purposes of culpability it is irrelevant whether she loved or hated it; it is still just as wrong.

Now, curl up in a fetal position level trauma, followed by I hope they have a nice salad w/ a good balsamic vinaigrette????

but you’re forgetting she’s conflict avoidant and so she simply had to go try the charcuterie and cheese tray with the local honeycomb and artisanal bread with the AP to avoid hurting his feelings.

I had actually thought that people responding used those words - when I went back and read the OP - yeah, that negates my theory that she just wasn't enjoying it. Unless, and this is a stretch, she was frozen in fear/traumatized at the realization that she'd just crossed a hard line into infidelity.

As I mentioned earlier, I was sexually abused growing up. While I have never been sexually abused as an adult, certain instances take me back to the feeling I had when I was. Having sex with someone who is dehumanizing me, objectifying me, trying to recreate some sort of porn thing, not being a respectful or caring partner, those things are not rape. But, I did relive some trauma during those times.

It's possible that she regretted it as the boundary was crossed. I think I would tend to believe that if the OP comes back and says she confessed on her own a short time later. It would be consistent with someone who really broke their own integrity, recognized it and regretted it immediately.

Remorse takes most of us some time to get to, but in this situation, it could have been more immediate.

Women are more complex? News to me.

What the fuck hiking? You think the BH's here don't understand bad sex? You think I haven't had negative emotional responses to sex with my own damn wife? The worst sex I've ever had in my entire life has been with my wife. Mind movies, disgust, anger, hurt, feelings of comparison\inadequacy, and the thought of enjoying some piece of shit's sloppy seconds? I know I googled "how long does semen live inside a woman" after d day. Fun fact, it's 5-6 days by the way. I totally get sexual trauma. Got the EMDR shit to prove it.

And the women here at SI are quick to say they hurt just as much from the sexual aspects as BH's, but then turn around and talk about how much more risk is involved for women when engaging in sex with a new partner. How it can be traumatic. How it can be rapey. How it can be bad or unfulfilling. No fucking shit. We understand sex can be painful, traumatic and scary for women. Now imagine your goddamn wife taking that chance with some fuck looking to get his dick wet.

Women are far more complex than men - any number of stats on this

This strikes me as a pretty sexist statement, even with a hint of misandry. Could you share these stats that empirically show women are more complex than men? I’ll warrant that women are different than men on most levels. That’s what makes the two genders complimentary. But more complex? I’ll need to see receipts.

Does not sound like the guy was some monster and did anything that dredged up memories from past traumatic experiences.

He was an old boyfriend. They went sightseeing all day. She was familiar with him on a lot of levels, I would think, including sexually. They went out afterward and had a nice dinner. Not to mention, in arranging the logistics, they must have communicated a lot and she must have felt reasonably comfortable.

Guy had a condom. This was not spontaneous. She exaggerated saying this frozen in fear deal. I doubt it was terribly traumatic until she was discovered.

Was she demonstrating behavior consistent with being traumatized before discovery?

What the fuck hiking? You think the BH's here don't understand bad sex? You think I haven't had negative emotional responses to sex with my own damn wife? The worst sex I've ever had in my entire life has been with my wife. Mind movies, disgust, anger, hurt, feelings of comparison\inadequacy

You obviously have not read this entire thread, Buck. I don't have the time or energy for the play back, but yes, I have been told IN THIS THREAD more than once that there is no such thing as bad sex.

Also, when DIFM spoke up IN THIS THREAD and said this same thing to me I sincerely apologized to him. So, don't paint me to be a bad guy here because you might not have liked my last response to you. Read the thread and then maybe come at me.

Again, I have a hard time feeling empathy for you when I know by the things you have said on this site that you really do not feel your 2 affairs which both were LTR even touches your wife's 2 month affair because of the order in which it happened. Right now, I am in your wife's shoes so forgive me if there might be some projecting going on when it comes to you.

[This message edited by hikingout at 3:12 PM, November 12th (Thursday)]

Jana

Id say that is possible . Its hard for us to completely understand who the Ops wife is as she isnt here representing herself

Maybe she was high maybe she was in a psychotic episode. . Maybe she is being manipulative maybe she raped the OM and is lying preemptively to cover her tracks .

Or maybe she got raped which does also happen ....

In either case like you i believe she made some seriously fucked up decisions before the sex took place.

And For people who arent clear : Yes rape can follow consensual making out , rape can also be followed by the victim trying hard to pretend nothing has happened.

Ofcourse I dont know if rape is what actually happened here but its one possibility

Does not sound like the guy was some monster and did anything that dredged up memories from past traumatic experiences.

He was an old boyfriend. They went sightseeing all day. She was familiar with him on a lot of levels, I would think, including sexually. They went out afterward and had a nice dinner. Not to mention, in arranging the logistics, they must have communicated a lot and she must have felt reasonably comfortable.

Guy had a condom. This was not spontaneous. She exaggerated saying this frozen in fear deal. I doubt it was terribly traumatic until she was discovered.

I think that is equally as possible Striver. Noone has said any of this part outside of me, and it was just one of the ways a person who is not currently experiencing trauma can be in a position where they relive it. Noone has said this guy was doing anything rapey, not even OP's wife. I am saying certain ways certain partner's handled me made me go back to that time. So it was just a theory, as plausible as any other theory I have seen so far.

Yeah, I hate that " more complex deal just like the propaganda that men are less evolve emotionally or not good at communicating feelings, blah, blah.

Guess the folks who subscribe to that forgot about all the male poets, authors, philosophers, orators, artists, etc.

My male friends are great communicators. We do not talk strictly boxscores, carburetors, etc.

Did the act of msging him to set up the hotel meet traumatize her? I mean, /shiver/ she crossed a line there! Poor thing had no control over her fingers that were typing!

And then...let's not forget how traumatizing typing her credit card number into the hotel reservation system must have been. I bet she threw up immediately after.

But... that's not the worst of it. I mean, she was even forced to take her shoes off when she went through airport security. The poor thing! Must have been a horrible experience.

But the absolute worst thing? When she called him to let him know she was there and ready for sex. That had to just totally scar her emotionally when she hung up and realized what she did.

Totally traumatizing.

Just my term for this unfortunate trend I've seen of giving far too many WW's an out with a narrative that usually goes along the lines of an innocent ingenue (even if a middle aged woman, natch) wandering into the dark woods of infidelity, finding herself lost and then being preyed upon by a wolf (it's almost always the super-persuasive playa AP who seems to have Svengali-like mesmer powers and manipulated their panties off).

I just don't think it washes.

I see various versions of it, but that's the essential outlines. I think it disrespects women, especially faithful BW's, because it almost tries to send women back to the fainting couch as innocent beings who can't make adult decisions.

This variation seems to be developing a bit of a "little lost girl in the woods" narrative. She didn't know what she was getting into when she booked plane tickets, flew to LA, spent a day with AP sightseeing, invited him to her hotel room, and then displayed her wares for him in a bathrobe. It was an Artic hellscape of "frozen fear" for her, you see. And she just REGRETS it soooo much. It was almost against her will, you see. She was terrified and just had to let him finish. And that's why she had to go to dinner with him afterward, because she was so deeply terrified and frozen with fear.

And she's conflict-avoidant, poor girl. She couldn't bear to tell the AP that his penis was instead like a uranium rod to her and so she simply had to enjoy a lovely dinner with him afterward.

It just doesn't wash with me.

Thank you for clarifying, Thumos.

In OP’s first post, he specifically requested information regarding what could spark a fight/flight/freeze response in a sexual interaction. I don’t see where he’s said that his wife doesn’t hold herself accountable? Just that the sexual experience was traumatizing?

Am I missing something here?

[This message edited by leavingorbit at 3:16 PM, November 12th (Thursday)]

She may have been nervous as shit, knowing she was crossing the Rubicon. Might have dawned on her that she was forever denaturing her relationship. But, frozen in fear or traumatized? That is a little much.

Short of abusive sex, even bad sex is probably enjoyable to some extent if both people want it and are turned on and are approaching with “good intentions” (that is to say they want to give each other orgasms

Well, Thumos says bad sex is still enjoyable.

So there's that.

And many women have shared their experiences saying not so much for them.

Ymmv

Thumos

I meant in terms of orgasming . I am sure you already know that millions of women dont orgasm from penetration. Then they get used to pretending otherwise . For women sex is often ( not always ) for secondary gain ( primary gain being an orgasm)

I am not aware of any literature suggesting men have the same issue . In this one case its apples and oranges

Ofcourse men can have complex and evolved sexual motivations and patterns noone is disputing that

Now imagine your goddamn wife taking that chance with some fuck looking to get his dick wet.

Imagine being the wife of that fuck,who is looking to get his dick wet.

Kinda sucks both ways.

In OP’s first post, he specifically requested information regarding what could spark a fight/flight/freeze response in a sexual interaction. I don’t see where he’s said that his wife doesn’t hold herself accountable? Just that the sexual experience was traumatizing?

Am I missing something here?

No, you are not missing anything, Leavingorbit! That's precisely true.

And, there was nothing that said she didn't admit to giving signals and having him follow them. There is nothing that says that she doesn't take full accountability regardless of her claim not to like the sex. There is nothing that says that he believes anything at all is untrue other than whether or not she enjoyed the sex or if she felt terrible immediately. He even adds that he also fears she had sex with a basketball team staying on the grounds, which if we are voting on that, it didn't happen either.

Stinger

Ofcourse men as thinkers can be very complex and evolved . Sexual behavior / perceived reward wise men are much more monolithic as a group - for the above reasons

I didn't say the OP himself was trying to posit a little lost girl in the woods narrative, I said others were. Not sure how this was confusing. Hard to miss.

Well, Thumos says bad sex is still enjoyable.

What I actually said was that "bad sex" is probably at least somewhat enjoyable for both parties if both people are coming to it from a good faith effort trying to please each other. What I meant was not exclusively related to orgasms but rather to intimacy and pleasure derived from the closeness. Think of two awkward teenagers who are deeply attracted to each other. Probably not the best sex they will ever have. Possibly mediocre and even bad. But likely both enjoyed it if they cared for one another. Again, not hard to miss my point unless one was being deliberately obtuse.

Now let's revisit the actual point of this thread. OP's WW has used very extreme, unqualified language to describe the "trauma" she experienced from having pretty routine affair hotel sex after a day of handholding and sightseeing and with a dinner afterwards.

It's unlikely she exhibited any signs to her husband of this alleged trauma in the weeks afterward.

Someone "frozen in fear" doesn't come out of a shower with a robe on and overtly display the wares, likely with a big shit-eating grin on her face. In all probability (which is the important thing here, not the possibility) someone "frozen in fear" doesn't follow up the Hellraiser-level traumatic red room sex with a yummy dinner afterwards.

So I'm skeptical. I think the OP should be skeptical too.

[This message edited by Thumos at 3:33 PM, November 12th (Thursday)]