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Well, unfortunately, you were all right. I just found out the whole story last night. We live out west and still own a house out east. In Sept., we got a new renter. A few months later, my wife decided to hook up with the renter in a business venture. Multi-level marketing. I've been through this kind of thing before and wanted nothing to do with it. A month or so goes by and my renter's upline, we'll call him Mr. D, comes out west to my house and does a party for my wife. They wanted to go to a club with my renter (a married female) which I wanted nothing to do with, so I let my wife go with the two of them. That night, my wife was pissed at me for not going and Mr. D, put the moves on my wife. She loved it and wanted more. They developed an innapropriate relationship from that night on. There was nothing physical tha night, just flirting. Well, my wife said she felt and electricity between them, loved it, and persued after this guy. There were inapproiate texts between the two of them until the convention. (Mr. D lives out east too so that's all they could do) So the first night of the convention comes downtown, my wife goes, meets the party for dinner, has a few drinks and Mr. D follows her down to the parking garage. They're getting her luggage out of the truck when my wife comments about how good he smells. He throws the luggage down and says, "what do you want to do?" She replies, "I don't know, what do I want?" He says, "Get in the truck". She does. They make out, she performs oral on him. He cums in her mouth and she swallows! Yuck! They get out and that was that. The next night after the convention meetings, there was a 70's dance party. She goes with her party and sees Mr. D put the moves on another woman right in front of her. Then she starts to realize what an idiot she's been. Then the day after that, the guilt sets in. She proceeded to take a few self vacations, I knew someting was really wrong and start fishing. That's when she came out and told me about the whole made up balchony scene and mystery guy. Week before last, she took another vacation back east to our old home and met up with Mr. D. They went to dinner. He asked her for forgive him for what he allowed, she asked for his forgiveness too. They went out to the parking lot for a smoke. They got in his truck and made out again! (This is after she told me the BS story about the convention where we went through everything. She said she was so sorry, cried, I creid, I took the day off of work I was so messed up from it, and I thought whe was done foolling around). Then she does it again?!!! What is the matter with her?!!! We went through everything last night and she admitted everything. I still want to be her husband because I still love her. We have agreed to stay together. I am totally disapointed in this woman. I can't believe she would do this to us. We were high school sweethearts. She was my first and only and I was hers! 5 kids together and I have broken my back to provide for her and our kids and she does this?!!! What the hell? Just because I didn't go to a club with her? She says she did it to see if she could get this guy because she was feeling like an old frumpy grand ma. I just am having a hard time wrapping my head around the lies, betrayal, deception, and physical act that she could possibly put another man's penis in her mouth and swallow his sperm. What's worse is she's Mormon! Somebody help me please to make sense of all this!

If you examine what your wife confessed to it is apparent she is skirting around the act of penetrative sex; confessing to anything but that. The OM is going to concentrate on getting that, not oral or making out. He had time, privacy and an eager willing partner and I believe he took full advantage of his opportunity.

Your wife had full sex with him but she is terrified to confess, so you get the old TT; each day the story changes until finally she will tell you that it wasn't oral but full intercourse. By then she reasons you may be better equipped to accept this incremental betrayal.

Get tested for STD's for one thing, then your marriage is going to need help from counseling. Find out what caused your wife to throw away 20 years of apparent faithfulness for a sexual fling with this guy. First at all get at the full truth; it wasn't simply oral, he got everything he was after.

^^I agree.

She had sex with him..probably many times.

Get tested immediately..and refuse to have sex with her until she is tested..and YOU get the results from a doctor.

Stop believing anything she says. She is a liar and a cheater. Right now,you can bet if she's talking,she's lying.

Have you read the 180? I would suggest you tell her your requirements to R..full transparency,honesty,NC,IC,MC,and anything else you feel you need to feel safe in this marriage...then 180 her ass.

Im so sorry.

(((Hugs))) I am so sorry you are here.

Calkid, back up a minute and really think about what she is telling you.

There is so much electricity between them she could feel it. She still gets excited when she thinks about it.

^^This is what she said to you. This is how she still feels away from him.

Now ask yourself.

Do you really believe that when she got back in front of him, they had a smoke, kissed and did nothing more?

Read anywhere about what the number one reason is for an affair. The biggest mitigating factor is OPPORTUNITY.

I don't say this to hurt you. We have all been where you are. We have all heard the same stories. All WS have the same stories and excuses.

You have to stop for a minute. BE STILL.

We know you still want her. Do not let your fear of losing her cloud your judgement. You are so afraid of losing her, you are putting aside rational thinking and you are putting aside your hurt and pain to comfort her. STOP!

If you are really having trouble seeing this clearly, write down everything she has said to you in bullet form. Read it. What would you tell your best friend, sister, brother who came to you with this story?

We are all here for you. Keep posting!

Hi honey

I am so sorry. This is heartbreaking.

I remember vividly the initial horror.

On dday I found out my FWH had been screwing another woman for more more than a year. Had told her he loved her.

For 2 weeks I cried and begged him to tell me if there was more. He swore on our children's lives that I knew it all.

Two weeks later I found out he had been screwing other women for at least 16 years.

All I can do is reiterate what others have said. What you know is probably the tip of the iceberg. So many of us have found out there was so much more.

I am so sorry.

I suspect there is much more.

BIG HUGS

Laura

Hi calkid,

Welcome to the TT club now too. It took me 7 months until I found out the extent to wich my FWW had been meeting and having sex with her OM. I was stunned, I would not have belived her so capable of such deceit. I still do not know the whole story, and where there are gaps of suspicions, I just presume the worst.

Keep eating and drinking water as you move through this. In the shock and numbness, many of us loose neglect our diet and loose a great deal of weight.

Is Mr. D married, if so you should let his BW know.

The questions and comments I posted yesterday still apply. In order for your WW to be a safe M partner moving forward, she needs to figure out why she was so open to Mr. D's advance. Why was she not terrified or disgusted when he put the moves onto her? What need was oral sex in a truck in a garage with an unbathed man meeting? Why was this attractive to her? Why was she feeling old and frumpy? It is not because you did not go to the club. What will she do the next time she feels old, unattractive, unloved, depressed, whatever?

Do not remember if you got the book recomendations. Not Just Friends by Glass and Sexual Detours by Hines are two good ones to help you to understand A behavior and dynamics.

One of the questions I had to answer after my dday was why I felt I still loved my W after the things she had done. My FWW did some pretty awful things and I still felt love for her. In my case at least, this was not a good or noble feeling.

Somebody help me please to make sense of all this!

It is my experience that A behavior is irrational, and that there is no making sense of it all. At best, I have come to accept what happened, I can understand some of the issues that led to FWW making such horible choices, but I do not understand most of it. IC for me did help me to sort through my feelings and get to healing.

You are probably right. Why wouldn't she have sex with him? After all, she admitted she pursued him. Unless, she's just saying that because she feels bad for him because she's in love with him or likes him a lot. I know if I had her alone in the dark parking garage in the truck, her pants would be coming off and I'd be sticking it in her. That's what I would want. She said, she had it in her mind that she would keep her vagina only for me but then, why do all this other stuff? I am so devastated I can't even tell you all. I drank tequilla last night to numb the pain. Woke up at 2:00 a.m. and couldn't sleep. I drank some more tequilla. Not a good choice as it messed me up pretty good. Before long I was lying face up on the kitchen floor crying like a baby. I went upstairs and woke her up. We talked for a couple of hours. We tried to go back to sleep about 5:00a.m. but I still can't sleep even though I'm still drunk as I'm writing this. I don't know what to do. I feel totatlly worthless as a human being. If there was an easy painless way to end it all right now, I would.

Do you want to know everything? It seems she's finding all this exciting.

Look after yourself- look at the 180 stuff- drink solves NOTHING!!

You have no control over what's happened but you're in control of your situation now- make decisions based on your own needs.

Try insisting to wife that you must have the full truth - right now. Indicate that you are going to set up a polygraph test to get at the full truth and you will divorce if you find out she is lying. Giving the actual facts right now is her last chance for conditional forgiveness.

As for her story about saving her vagina for you. Really? In the grip of lust and passion, penetrative sex is what a woman needs and desires as much as any man.

She is actually trying turn a negative into a positive, by claiming that she loved you so much that she couldn't go through with the ultimate gift to the OM. Sadly I do not believe this for an instant; I think she wanted to see what it was like with another man and took the opportunity.

Cheaters lie to cover their ass and avoid the consequences of their betrayal. You need to be quite cynical about anything she says.

Calkid,

You are obviously in pain. It's very raw at the begining, and many of us have felt the same way. Not able to sleep, trying anything to numb the pain.

Please try to stay away from the liquor though, this will only make you feel worse physically, and also prevent you from having a clear mind.

It is time to care for you. Get yourself to the Dr if you cannot turn off your mind and sleep. Many of us have found benefit with medications to help us rest, and take the anxiety away. You also need to be tested for STD's, from the little she has told you about this guy he is certainly a player.

Read 180, understand this is for you, so you understand that you need to put you first. Start making a list of the things that you would need for you and her to R. No need to make any decisions today or tomorrow, or next week, or even next month.

Right now it seems that you need to get the whole truth, of what has happened. This will help you decide if you want to R.

((((and strength))))

I am so sorry you are here and completely agree that you, like me , are being TT to death. It ends up being worse than the cheating. I have been TT since day one, for 5 months now.

She had no reason not to sleep with him. She admits to you how excited she was by him, they had multiple opportunities to do whatever they wanted.

These are adults, not pre teens, they aren't just going to "make out".

Don't stop asking and digging for the truth. The very least they owe us is the truth, yet they don't want to admit it because they are so damn selfish, selfish when they cheat and selfish when they lie.

They say they lie to protect US? No,it's to protect them.

Please don't allow her keep doing this, do whatever it takes to get the truth you deserve.

I feel totatlly worthless as a human being.

Her A was not about you, has nothing to do with who you are or what you did.

If there was an easy painless way to end it all right now, I would.

I remember that feeling. I am now glad I did not successfully act on it.

The advice to not self-medicate with alcohol is good advice. Talk to your medical provider about use of medication to get through the worst of it. I wish I had followed that sooner/more. For acute intense anxiety and panic attack I used Xanax sparingly. For help sleeping when I could not shut off my mind I used some Ambien (absolutely NO alcohol with Ambien) for generalized anxiety and depression I used LexaPro for about a year. I also attended IC for help identifying and working through my feelings. I got a lot of good advice here at SI too. I used the journal feature to write my thoughts, and store information somewhere safe from FWW.

She said, she had it in her mind that she would keep her vagina only for me ...

My experience is that when the WW is in the A, there is no "us". The BS is no longer a "partner", but more an excuse and an obstacle to be scheduled around. I presume that my FWW did everything and more with her OM that she and I had ever done.

Consider asking your WW to write a timeline out of what occurred, when and where. This way you do not have to quiz her with questions, and repeat questions. When FWW finally gave me a sort of timeline 7 months after dday, there were things on it I would never have thought to ask about.

Is OM married?

((Calkid))

What a tangled web they weave, huh?

Personally... I still don't think you have the full truth. It'd be HIGHLY unusual for a woman who has an "electric connection" to a man to perform oral, SWALLOW, and settle for nothing in return.

I don't think you should be "agreeing" to stay married at this point either --

#1 - Has she earned you back?

#2 - What has she done to ensure that you can be confident that she is a safe partner for you?

#3 - You're in the first days right now. You will go through a period of shock, then all heck will break loose emotionally. I am not an advocate of offering R so early -- even though I did it myself. In hindsight I already know I should have made my WH earn my trust back BEFORE giving that gift, rather than spitting out my intentions just about immediately.

Just think about this -- it took Mr D. putting the moves on someone else right in front of her for her to feel stupid. It wasn't knowing that she could have ruined her marriage and exposed you to disease...it was that he hit on someone else in front of her.

AND THEN, but a week after seeing just how much her having a physical affair with someone else would hurt you, she DID IT AGAIN! She has no regard for your feelings whatsoever. NONE.

The woman you love, the woman in whom you would be disappointed -- she is not your wife. She either is not that woman right now, or she was always an illusion.

((HUGS))

I'm so sorry your here. No one wants this.

Something tells me there was more than just oral sex.

Like you said, who'd get that far and stop.

You might want to get tested for STD's. You can get at least one from oral.

I'm so sorry, Calkid.

All I can tell you is that it will eventually get better. You may not have hit bottom yet, but you will not be down in this pit forever.

It's hard to believe when the pain is so great, but in the end, you will be ok.

It will take a long time to make any sense of this, and the only person who can really do that is your wife. She is the one who is broken and has lost her self-worth and her way.

I would recommend talking to someone IRL--doctor, therapist, counselor, pastor, rabbi, sibling--someone ASAP.

We went to my wife's therapist who is also a marriage counselor. I have asked her to cut off Mr. D from our lives. I've asked her to write a letter to him telling him that I know about the affair and that he is not to call, text, write or contact her in any way. She does not want to do it because she is worried that he will spread rumors about her and make it look like she went after him and lied about him and is crazy. She's worried that the little town back there, the rumour will spread and get back to her friends and family and she'll be exposed. So she is going to do it but is very upset about it. I've also asked her to quit the multi-level marketing company since it's a direct tie to Mr. D, to let me handle our renter (We'll call her Mrs. H) who is Mr. D's personal assistant, and that at the end of the lease, we will not release the house to her. I don't want any ties to Mr. D in our lives whatsoever. She keeps saying things like, "I will not sit around here and be treated like a person who has no rights or a peice of garbage. I'm a person and I deserve to be treated like one." "You can make me bleed Calkid, but you can't drain all the blood from me." I'm not sure how cutting Mr. D 100% completely out of our lives is draining the blood from her. In the meantime. I've tried taking naps today since I only got about 2 hours of sleep last night and the effects of all the tequila are making me feel drainerd, but I cannot get my mind to relax enough to fall asleep. Everytime I start to drift off, I see them in the truck with his penis in her mouth or I see them in the truck back east kissing and making out or I see him flirting with her or hugging her right in front of me pretending it's only a friendly hug. Then I jump up, wanna smash something, then wanna cry. This is truely the hardest thing I've ever went through.

calkid sorry that your wife turned out to be like so many other spouses here.

Each time your wife told you the "whole story" it turned out to be just another lie in the series of lies she was telling you and demonstrated once again that she is a liar. So my question to you is why do you think that after all the lies she has told you so far that this latest version is the truth? What convinces you that this version is not just the latest of her lies?

You should try to look at the big picture. She was trickle-truthing you . And in my opinion she still is.

As much as it pains you it is important that you recognize your wife for what she is... A cheater and a liar.

This was not a one time slip. She persued Mr D. She planned her betrayal of you and your marriage. She went back to him after her first sordid episode in his truck.

Please do not be surprised when you find out that she did not limit herself to performing oral on him. Chances are that she did in fact sleep with him. In fact it would be more surprising if she did not sleep with him than if she did.

Again remember... She is a cheat and a liar who lied and cheated and betrayed you, your marriage and your family.

Sorry that you find yourself here and sorry for being so blunt.

ps: The mind movies are really hell aren't they?

She agreed to a polygraph today to prove they didnt' have sex. I've also got it on good authority from my sister-in-law (my brother's wife) that they didn't. You're right, she is a liar and I can't believe that the affair is even over. That may be why she is really so upset about sending the letter cutting it off. I'm going to go ahead and set up the poly.

She keeps saying things like, "I will not sit around here and be treated like a person who has no rights or a peice of garbage. I'm a person and I deserve to be treated like one." "You can make me bleed Calkid, but you can't drain all the blood from me." I'm not sure how cutting Mr. D 100% completely out of our lives is draining the blood from her.

calkid these are not the words of a remorseful WS. Not that her words are worth anything.

Sorry man, she still does not grasp the severity of what she has done. She still does not get it.

I am sorry calkid, it IS the hardest thing in the world to get through, but listen to everyone here. Take the advice that will help and leave the rest.

Cheaters seem to all use the same hand-book. You will be shocked to see how much we all know about your situation and your wife...because we have all been there and they are so, so alike.

You will come out of this ok, it will take time and one hell of a roller-coaster ride, but you will get there.

Hugs and strength to you.