SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I want to say thank you to all of you who have taken out the time to reply to my post. Really appreciate the honesty and support. It has given me a lot to think about. The reason I have not put up a stop sign as some of you have suggested, is because I am looking for advise/perspective/kick-on-the-backside from the BS's side too. I don't mind the harsh comments. I need to see it like it is.

Many of you have commented on the way the A was conducted, the fact that it happened right under my husband's nose and that it seems like show hatred and anger towards him. I would like to explain that from my point of view. I don't know if it will make sense to anyone, but I will try. All the 6 times that me and OM had sex, it only happened when the opportunity presented itself. I didn't go out looking for it, meaning there were no text/ emails/ messages exchanged between me and OM, we never planned to meet up alone. For me, this is because doing so would have made it so much more real, a more deliberate act (not the fucking him 6 times wasn't deliberate). So picture this, a group of us would get together on weekends, some people would eventually leave, RB and the OBS would have passed out (at least on those 6 occasions) and I would find myself alone with the BS. That's what I mean when I say it only happened when the opportunity presented itself, or more like it kind of fell in my lap. The setting would sometimes be my house, sometimes his, once a hotel for a weekend getaway. The act itself was always hurried, don't think any time lasted more than 10 minutes to be honest. And every time we got away with it, it became easier to cross that line the next time. What I was getting out of it was thrill and excitement of something new, validation that I still had it and was attractive to a younger guy (OM is 10 years younger than me). I know I need to figure out why that was so important to me that I could throw away a wonderful marriage to an amazing man. Looking back at my actions all I can feel now is disgust and disbelief that I did what I did.

One of the biggest mistakes I made early on was trying to determine what my BH shoukd know and what he didn't need to.

Walkingoneggshelz, I did that early on too. But have realized that only the entire truth would be acceptable to RB. He wants to know every graphic detail and I have given it to him. One reason is that I don't want to lie anymore. Another is the fact that him and OBS compare and swap stories and I would never want to risk him finding out any detail from the OM that he already hasn't heard from me.

There is hope. We are still together and will celebrate our 20th Anniversary this year. I don't think our M is 'affair proof', but I am thankful for that. We seem to be struggling a bit recently, but it's all normal stuff. Mainly, I'm having a straight-up mid-life crisis and he is trying to weather the storm.

Thank you for sharing your story nokidding. It does give me hope. I wish you and your husband the best of luck.

MrsRB

I'm a BH and I'll try to be as gentle as possible. One of the posters here mentioned that your BH has posted already his story. Before writing this reply I went through his thread. I have some questions for you. You don't need to answer them if you don't feel like that. Just contemplate them to focus on some very important things. I think they are paramount to the understanding of your actions. If you feel comfortable we can discuss them. Anyway, here are the questions

Have you read your husband's thread? What do you think about it?

What I was getting out of it was thrill and excitement of something new

If it wasn't the sex or the other man (your own statement in two of the posts on this thread where you said you feel or have nothing for the other man and that the sex was only ten minutes which means nothing special) so thrill and excitement of what was it?. The newness also doesn't fit here well

You said you didn't think about your husband. One poster told you that it isn't correct and I agree. So, do you think having no thought or consideration for your husband make your decisions really less "bad"?

Do you think and believe it is possible to generate those feelings of thrill, excitement and something new in your marriage. If yes, why didn't you generate it with your BH?

I didn't go out looking for it

This isn't exactly correct. It is also irrelevant. Before it happened you had to make many decisions, even if in a very short period of time. Do you see the intention there (for example to get validation which by itself is in no way a one minute decision?) Can you see where you can find this intention elsewhere? It must have started WAYYYY earlier than the act itself

When the opportunity presented itself

Again, it is not completely correct. If you wanted validation you had by definition have thought about it; there must have been intention. So, the fact, if the opportunity presented itself is irrelevant. What's important is the intention that led you to take and act on the opportunity. It is clear that it can present itself. But do you see the rationalization behind this statement.

Edited to add more questions

RB and the OBS would have passed out (at least on those 6 occasions) and I would find myself alone with the BS.

I just want to understand this so I have a few more questions

1.Did you and your AP consumed alcohol too on these occasions

2.If yes, how comes that both of you were not passed out but your husband and the other BS were (especially at all six times)

3. If not, then why?

4.Have you drank less or the same amount of alcohol at these occasions

5.What was your's and the AP's state of intoxication

6. Regarding you and your AP. Have you both consumed the same amount of alcohol or has anyone of you drank more and the other less. If the latter was the case then who drank more and who drank less

[This message edited by MrSpock at 11:30 AM, February 17th (Wednesday)]

MrsRB...

I am looking for advise/perspective/kick-on-the-backside from the BS's side too. I don't mind the harsh comments. I need to see it like it is.

Pkease do not encourage BS's to swing 2x4's in this forum as it makes it impossible to moderate fairly.

Thank you. The

[This message edited by SI Staff at 11:56 AM, February 17th (Wednesday)]

MrSpock,

You have provided insight that has helped my BH and I and I'm very appreciative of your truthful insight. The questions you have asked MrsRB are questions that may pertain to all wayward. I believed my husband would not find out and I was not thinking of him when I was commiting the affair, but the short answer is that I should have had him as my number one in though priority. I would have never done what I did, had I known what it would do to him, but I should have known and at least thought about it before I did it. He would have done anything to help me in the darkness I was in, prior to the affair, had I just told him. I though I was telling him how I felt, but I wasn't direct enough. Waking up everyday now, knowing how deeply I have harmed a wonderful man, is something pretty tough to live with. Before I described myself as a giver and a nice and caring person, but I have had to honestly look at what I really am. The only hope I can offer is once you understand what you truly did, I can make the commitment to be the kind of loving, giving and caring wife that I wanted to be. I wanted to make him the happiest man and I am so very thankful he is still giving me the chance to be the woman that I set out to be. I wake up happy, grateful and appreciative for every day he is still willing to give me. Thank you MrSpock for your helpful questions to examine what we did and I do wish MrsRB and her BH healing.

I just want to understand this so I have a few more questions

1.Did you and your AP consumed alcohol too on these occasions

2.If yes, how comes that both of you were not passed out but your husband and the other BS were (especially at all six times)

3. If not, then why?

4.Have you drank less or the same amount of alcohol at these occasions

5.What was your's and the AP's state of intoxication

6. Regarding you and your AP. Have you both consumed the same amount of alcohol or has anyone of you drank more and the other less. If the latter was the case then who drank more and who drank less

Interesting, this tangent (I won't call it a thread jack), about alcohol. Mr. Spock, I know that alcohol was key to your wife's infidelity, perhaps it was also to MrsRB's as well.

I will state that each and every time my wife had sex with the OM, especially the first time, there was alcohol involved. The first time, when my wife killed our marriage, was after she met the OM in a bar at a hotel. Then they went to his car to have sex. Each and every time thereafter they had sex, he would provide some wine.

Why was this? Wasn't it enough to plan an out of town trip so that she could meet him away from me? No, it also involved alcohol. Why? Was it because the OM knew that her conscience would be silenced, would be drowned out by the alcohol, making her betrayal of her family easier?

My wife has greatly cut back in her alcohol consumption now. Only a few sips from my glass now and then.

What lesson can we learn about this? Sex and alcohol seem to go hand in hand around here. What would you or MrsRB recommend I tell my daughters (and son) as they head off to college or some day be married?

[This message edited by notperfect5 at 12:12 PM, February 17th (Wednesday)]

Lady447

I tried to help here MrsRB, but I'm more than happy if I could help any other soul that is going through this – whether BS or a truly remorseful Wayward. For too long I have struggled with providing help for those that fell into the category of the Wayward. Today, I understand that part of cultivating compassion towards my-self as well as my wife is being able to generate the same compassion which like in a hologram (symbolically) may have hurt me. When I try to help others today, I in fact help myself. My only hope and fear, still, is that the advice may fall in the wrong hands. Meaning in the hands of someone who potentially may misuse it! Probably not a rational fear, at least here on this sight. Anyway, I wish MrsRB and her husband, as well as everyone else, true healing from all of this. At the end, I wish we may all be well.

[This message edited by MrSpock at 4:31 PM, February 17th (Wednesday)]

NP5

It's more than about alcohol and sex because alcohol and sex are also tightly related to questions of decisions, consent and intention. If you followed my two threads, my exception to the deal breaker was that she had no intent in getting drunk to hook up so at the end while being drunk there was no intention to betray me. However, that's me and my deal breakers. For other men, it's different and it can vary from man to man (and also from a woman to woman). What I intended to do is to help her to focus on her intentions, because in my opinion, whether it's a deal breaker or not, it must be addressed. She must understand it so that even in the case that for her husband it's not a deal breaker that she can apply the right antidotes to make him heal. She must also address it to understand her whys and herself.

By the way, I just asked here a few question and mentioned that she should examine all of her intentions. For example, TT is also rooted in some intention. In fact, when you are sober or unless you are drunk or unconscious every action of us is rooted in some intention. How can some perform anything if he has no intention – it's contradictory! Understanding this will help to address all of the problems whatever they might be. In a way, when we compartmentalize or rationalize there is an intention behind this too. It what's motivating you as a person! As to your question regarding your daughters, I try to avoid alcohol for those reasons at any cost. Alcohol colors your intention, perception, thinking and understanding of reality. When you heavily consume alcohol (in general) it does it constantly even in daily life. At least, there should be boundaries if you do drink. For married people, it's not a gender issue, no drinking to excess or at all without your spouse. In my opinion it's about boundaries; that's all. However, I'm not sure that alcohol in MrsRB's case has played the same role as in mine's. Again, I want her to focus on the intentions behind it.

[This message edited by MrSpock at 4:25 PM, February 17th (Wednesday)]

MSRB,

For some time after DDay I believed my AP had instigated the affair.

I was a good girl.

I wasn't a cheater.

I could trust myself like my husband did.

I would never seduce another man.

Blah blah snee-bullshit-ze.

I spent a lot of time in both MC and on my own in IC talking through how the affair had just 'happened'. Guess what? It didn't! I had been lying to myself all along. All those things I believed had just 'happened' and I had just 'gone along with'?

They happened because I did them!

I led the way.

I escalated the affair.

I knew what was happening.

I knew what I was doing.

I knew it was wrong.

So all those 'crimes of opportunity' when OBS and your BH were passed out? Like my Husband did on me, I now call Bullshit on you. Look carefully at your actions. My guess is that you were a more active orchestrator of this affair than you originally believed. It's a tough pill to swallow, the knowledge of ourselves, but you have to go there.

Keep your wits about you,

Nezzy

So all those 'crimes of opportunity' when OBS and your BH were passed out? Like my Husband did on me, I now call Bullshit on you. Look carefully at your actions. My guess is that you were a more active orchestrator of this affair than you originally believed. It's a tough pill to swallow, the knowledge of ourselves, but you have to go there.

This.

BH here. Back when this happened I read your BH's story with horror and I cried for him. Nothing could be worse than catching your wife having sex with a friend right outside your tent. Then finding out you guys did it in your home while he was sleeping & the rest of the ugly truths. Anyway, if that didn't kill your marriage dead on the spot than I don't think anything ever will. Your husband saved your marriage by being too good or too stubborn or too scared to end it. Now I hope you will continue to do whatever you can to help that poor soul heal. I have to stop now.

I am looking for advise/perspective/kick-on-the-backside from the BS's side too. I don't mind the harsh comments. I need to see it like it is.

The direction from DS not withstanding....I am quite intrigued by this comment.

Did you come here for punishment? To atone for your sins?

I get that you are looking for answers, guidance, help in any sort, but this is not the answer. You aren't a bad girl in need of correction, you won't serve your time and leave the past behind you.

This is the bed that you made, and YOU MUST figure out why. There truly is hope, but the work must come from within.

This is truth...

What I was getting out of it was thrill and excitement of something new, validation that I still had it and was attractive to a younger guy (OM is 10 years younger than me).

Start here to figure out your whys, and know that none of them have anything to do with your BH.

Why was the thrill, excitement, validation so important. Why is it important that your still considered 'attractive' to anyone? Especially someone 10 years younger. You mention this specifically, so I think you need to admit some hard truths....that you already know.

I suggest you getting the poly on your own because your story is not believable. It may actually be the truth, but it is not believable. Specifically that you did not communicate with OM outside of the trysts, and that there were only six times given that you saw him at least once every week. I believe any reasonable person would find that hard to believe. Add in that the person who is saying that is the one who lied for a long time, and changed their story at least once before, I don't see how your husband can feel comfortable this is the truth. You can get a poly on your own and give him the questions and results. Unless you have some other objective evidence you can show.

Only six times and nothing else? No communicating, just when opportunity knocked? When you as a group were together with other man around, there was not any kind of non-verbal cues, body language, facial expressions, smiling, eye contact, etc.? You never tried to set it up so that the two of you would be the last two waking at the end of the night?

That may all be true, but can you see how that is not believable? Kind of like when I find my kid in the cookie jar and tells me "but dad I wasn't going to eat."

For that reason, I think you should just do the poly by yourself and give him a copy. He's got to doubt the truth you've told.

Dude,

However, that's me and my deal breakers.

It takes a lot more than cutting out alcohol. You are incorrectly logically trying to convince yourself you are safe. You are not safe. It takes learning through time to identify what's safe.

Sl

This thread is not about me but I'm safe not because of cutting the alcohol. And the alcohol in our case played a different role although a crucial one. I'm safe because of many other reasons and many other things my wife did. It also takes a lot of time and I'm 3 years out of this. Three years of consistent work on her part on herself. And three years for me to learn. And I still make corrections if needed or demand more things. So much that many posters told me I went too far with this (I don't think so). Everything she accepts and does. She indeed continues with her work on herself and her support for me. However, let's try to help MrsRB here on her case. She is still not there where my wife is. Her husband is also different from me. It's very early on the process for her. Other things we can discuss on my threads where I described everything in details

[This message edited by MrSpock at 3:34 AM, February 18th (Thursday)]

Are the two of you still living in separate domiciles?

MH here.

I agree with the other posters calling out the "opportunities" that just arose out of thin air.

You chose to stay up with the OM, rather than follow your BH to bed.

My WH chose to leave a bar with the OW and go back to her room.

I chose to go to a bar and dance with an OM and make out a few months after DDay.

We can rationalize/minimize our actions leading up to the moments where we cross the line, but it's inside those exact moments that hold the keys to understanding our whys. Once you get your head wrapped around your concious choices you made to further the A, you can begin to work towards being a healthier partner and a woman with integrity. It sucks. You find things out about yourself you'd never want to know, but to save your marriage and be a worthy partner for Red, you have to get real. It starts by looking in the mirror and cutting the bull.

Hardest thing to do, especially for me as a BS, to understand my choices were MY responsibility and MINE alone. I hope you can get some clarity on your issues and heal.

[This message edited by Briseis at 3:52 PM, February 18th (Thursday)]

The affair happened, it was your fault, and your husband is right to doubt you. Chris Rock joked that people are as faithful as their opportunities permit. You allowed those opportunities to occur. The question now is what are you going to do about it? My ex had little remorse and thought it was my fault that we grew apart. If you blame your husband (or alcohol, or being seduced, etc..)for any of what happened he is likely going to leave you. Admit your mistakes, focus on marriage counseling, show incredible remorse, tell him everything now (you will thank me later, because if you TT the info your relationship will die a slow death.)

People make mistakes, yours was a big one, but the moral failing isn't usually the cause of the end of the relationship, it is how both people react to what has happened. It seems you recognize early your (excessive) lack of judgement, its up to you to fix this if you really want to make your marriage work.

Agree, there seems to be more than just opportunities presented and just sex. Friendship that long? Maybe you are too hung up on yourself to see there may have been an EA going on before the "just sex". I also want to bring up the issue of making your husband jealous. That is what I would think if my wife had an affair right in front of me out in the open. Keep digging about

validation that I still had it and was attractive to a younger guy

. I think that is the true root of your problems. Look back and question if you have always had the need to be the center of attention and a drama queen. We had a wayward here that was shocked to realize how much of a narcissist she was. Can't remember her name? The cops wife (SWAT) that was caught at the bar after Dday and NC with her AP? It seemed to be a real eye opener to her that she was so insecure she would do anything for attention. It took her a long time to stop making the affair, after affair, recovery, and so much more all about her. Upon closer inspection, she was that way all her life. She too claimed she had the best husband in the world.

That goes back to what my wife and I like to call the goldfish syndrome. Constantly hungry and no amount of food will ever fill your insatiable appetite. A goldfish will still eat even if they are close to exploding and causing death.

I agree with sistermilkshake that it seems the affair was just like any other affair to me too. It seems extreme, but I don't think it is. I bet there are many BS that at the right moment in time could have caught their wayward going at it with a close friend AP. They just didn't and I am sure many waywards would never admit they did it right there in the kitchen under their BS noses if they wanted to keep their marriages. I just don't think there was anything special about it or overly malicious. But, I do agree with other posters that you were thinking about your husband. Just to do it right there in the open for the high means you were thinking about your husband if you wanted the high for the risk of getting caught. You just didn't give a shit about him. If you weren't thinking about him as you claim, then there would have been no high and it wouldn't have been exciting and thrilling. So just admit to him already that you didn't give a shit and face yourself.

Part of my fwh betrayal was the illicit secret of his cheating. Maybe you think of the danger of getting caught played no piece, I dont understand how a 10 min sex deal 6 feet from your spouse wouldnt bring an adrenaline high.

Men are very visual and seeing what you were doing was always a risk. Are you pretending to yourself you were unaware of the risk?

Why did you feel entitled to your affair?

Why did you write that you didnt think of your betrayed spouse when you:

1 made rules of no contact to justify it as ok

2. Justify again with only opportunity

Perhaps you made these rules so that you could tell yourself you weren't hurting your bs with your actions.

These rules show you knew it was wrong and you did think of your bs.

Did you ever hear of girl code? You also betrayed your friend.

It is interesting that you immediately clarified about it not being his best friend.

Were there more rules?

I feel like I have not done a very good job in explaining myself in the previous posts. I will try my best to be clearer now.

Firstly, when I talked about the opportunity having presented itself only 6 times, I meant the opportunity for sex, which only happened 6 times in 9 months. However, during the course of those months like wkn55hn said, there were many other “non-verbal cues, facials expressions, body language, eye-contact, smiling” etc. We even kissed a few times when no one was looking. So this was not just the 6 times of sex. We were flirting, and throughout this time whenever I met the OM, I was getting a high from the attention. I have already told all of this to RB, in the timeline that I have given him, and in response to his many questions since D-Day.

Also wanted to clarify that I am not blaming my actions on alcohol, or RB or getting seduced by the OM. I also understand that the opportunities never came out of thin air. I was an active participant each and every time I chose to cross that line. I am working with my IC, and I have identified that I was at a point in my life where my self-esteem was extremely low and I was looking for attention and validation, which I got from the OM. The reason for being in that frame of mind is something I am still working on in my head and with my IC.

I also want to say here that attention from another man somehow meant more to me than the attention from my husband. In my mind RB’s praise and attention stemmed from his love for me, and obviously I took that for granted. I know this is not a rational way of thinking, and I am working to understand this more myself and with my IC.

Some of you have said this, and it is correct that it was a purely sexual affair. Once I was caught, I realized that there were no feelings/attachment to the OM as it was so easy to give him up and stop thinking about him. To answer Mr. Spock, the newness or the thrill of doing it with someone other than RB was due to the fact that I have never been with any other man, and that made it more exciting for me. Again, this is not a rational way of thinking, but if I was thinking rationally I wouldn’t have ended up here.

Some of you have also said that my actions meant that I didn’t give a shit about RB. And as hard as it has been to admit this, I know it is true. What I did was a purely selfish act, and I didn’t care enough for RB’s feelings at that time which is obviously why I acted the way I did. I have also admitted this to him.

wk55hn, I have already decided that I will be doing a polygraph. Unfortunately they are not readily available in the country where I am currently living. I will have to travel to a place where its available and am currently trying to work out the logistics.

I see the devastating nature of RB’s pain and hurt at my actions. I have told him that I might never understand the depth of his feelings, but I do see his pain. The anger, the bitterness, the loss of hope in everything good. And the knowledge that I am the cause of it is truly horrifying. Knowing that I have caused him so much pain that it will forever leave its scars on him is something that I will never forgive myself for. I am so sorry that he has to suffer the consequences of my evil actions. I am not going to stop until I weed out everything in me that led me to betray him, betray myself, so that I can one day become a person who could deserve another chance from him.