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Fire that IC.

He needs to be helping you process this trauma, not diagnose your wife.

I'll reiterate what others have said, she is in control, you need to take control of the situation.

Personally, I'd go on the mini vacation with the kids and then meet with an attorney. Your wife needs a big fat push, she is leaving you in limboland, which is the worst place to be.

I am 12 years out, and I lost my shit, oh, let's see, probably hundreds of times over a period of years. If he ever told me to be quiet, I would have thrown his stuff out the freaking window and thrown him out.

IMO, she really is not a candidate for R. She should be groveling right now.

I told her I was pro R. But I needed to know that she was all in, especially in reference to her broken NC.

How many MORE chances are you going to give her to kick you in the head?

This is a woman who's told you for several years now that she's no longer in love with you. Why would you SETTLE for that?

This is a woman whose told you for several years now that she was just waiting for the kids to go to college so she could leave you and start a new life. Why would you SETTLE for that?

This is a woman who has continually lied to you, cheated on you, and disrespected you in every conceivable WAY she possibly could - for far too long. Why would you SETTLE for that?

I'm just being honest and realistic when I say none of this is a surprise to you. It didn't come out of the blue, it's NOT news to you, and it's like the Groundhog Day movie - it just keeps repeating itself over and over and over. This has been your reality for a LONG time but you refuse to accept it.

You keep claiming "I'm done!" but then you turn round the very next day and put your hand right back on the stove again and are shocked when you get the SAME burn you've continually been given over and over and over and over and and over again.

You need to STOP the pick me dance. You're just humiliating yourself and disrespecting yourself. The only purpose it serves is to give her a good, open target in which to kick you - again and again and again - right in the head.

Please, just STOP the bleeding.

What Janagreen said. 100%.

That's what gaslighting does to you. It's HORRIBLE.

I'm sorry for the pain you are going through...that we've all gone (or are going) through. It's messy, feels overwhelming & never ending. It eventually gets better. I'm not done grieving yet, myself, but I do know that eventually I'll reach "meh". So will you, with time and effort. I feel an awful lot better without his crazy in my face... day after day. NC was a huge savior.

The problem with waiting for your wife to "get it" is that she may never, and do you want to wake up one day and realize you wasted the rest of your life waiting for something that was never going to happen?

I went through a VERY long period of 'hoping' my now exH would "get it". Looking back.... way, way too long. I wish I had stood up for myself a lot sooner.

He never did "get it", btw. The kids, our quarter century plus marriage, us having grown up together... nothing meant anything to him anymore. He had a shiny new life to look forward to. He hates me, and it's still "all my fault". He claims OW makes him the happiest guy on Earth, much more than I ever could have. Pretty sad, if you ask me.

What if I was still waiting on him to wake the Hell up?

I sincerely hope you can take the reigns. Try to get some control of your life back. Dont let HER run the show. I did that for way too long, and while it's scary to

'give up on' someone you love(d) and WANT(ed) to be married to (happily), sometimes you HAVE to because they're gone... but they refuse to be a grown up and admit it. This leaves you to do all the hard work to achieve something you don't even want.

Ask me how I know.

Sending strength...

[This message edited by WowItsReallyReal at 9:47 AM, June 22nd (Thursday)]

squid, she is likely years away from being fixed , if ever. Do you want to live in hell for as long as that takes and under the likely risk that it never will happen. If she wanted it, you would see it. You know that too, but you have hope in hope. She doesn't suffer from that, as I am sure you have seen. I hope you are considering running far and fast, for your own mental and physical health. She is not on your page and may never be.

Perhaps you need to set a deadline as to when you need to either R or D.

I hear you, everyone. I just snapped last night. I don't even remember everything I said. I just remember the moment that she made this all about me - I'm confusing, I'm not making sense, I'm emotional - I lost it.

I understand, that she may never get it. Her work recently is some attempt at getting there. I'm not jumping to any conclusions that she's anywhere near R material at all.

I've said early on to myself and even her that I won't make any huge decisions until I'm 6 months out from D-day. I'm not having any massive expectations that she'll have her A-HA moment.

Squid, I didn't read any responses.

Fire your IC. He's worse than useless, he's going to leave you mindfucked.

Get an IC that specializes in trauma from infidelity and abuse.

File for D. We get it, you love her. However, she doesn't love you. She just doesn't. And facing that reality hurts more than anything else in the world. Your whole life comes crashing down after that realization. Then it gets worse before it gets better once we realize there is absolutely NOTHING we can say or do to MAKE them love us. Maybe she loves how being with you makes her life easier, but that's self serving. It's not love. Love does NOT look like this.

It will hurt. But then you will get past it, heal, and be happier. Ask me how I know.

You are spinning your wheels. Nothing more, and until you get off the hamster ride, you will continue feeling traumatized.

Nothing changes if nothing changes.

Squid,

my take fwiw, as you are being twisted a lot here, and so I will give what I think/feel are what you should do.

a. The wait 6 months is good. Tell your W and that you expect progress before or you will D (period). She now has to (and tell her this too) get her shit together or get it out, 2 months left, time is ticking ... Sounds harsh? Afterward you will be able to tell yourself and your kids you did everything humanly possible and were very very fair. Set yourself up now for being able to say feel and believe this!

b. Do *not* fire your IC. I think what he is telling you is what I see often in your posts. You do not want to lose your W (or the one you had), but cannot of course live like this or even near to it. Simply get this point to him. I think / suspect also he's going to let you make that decision at 6 months or so anyway. I.e. I think he's trying to do what you say you want.

c. Hang on tight mate...

My opinion? If I were you I might well file now, but you are you, not me, and you have your approach. Stay cool and hang in there!

go well -- IDK

Holy shit. Your IC said WHAT??

So because she's a damaged broken child, you're obligated to stay with her why? So she can damage and break you?

I just can't even with that advice.

Hey Squid,

You're right this sucks, all around. It's tough enough to R with a remorseful WW.

I have to agree with the consensus, your IC sucks.

However, you need to do what you feel is best for you right now.

Strength, hope and hugs.

So because she's a damaged broken child, you're obligated to stay with her why? So she can damage and break you?

^^^^This. Damaged broken people break everyone around them if they aren't willing to get help. She isn't just going to break you. She's going to break your kids, too. Fire that IC and get one who focuses on what you are paying him/her to focus on: you and your healing.

You really need to work on emotionally detaching. I know it's not easy. Get a journal. Write your thoughts and emotions down. She isn't the wife you thought she was. She's a stranger. Start viewing her as a stranger and treating her in a polite, professional manner. No more melt downs in front of her. Work on detaching because she is going to use your emotions against you. Save them for us. And don't get all excited if you get a reaction out of her by detaching. Sometimes, a wayward snaps out of the fog when they realize they are about to lose their marriage. But sometimes they fake it for a while. If she appears to be turning around, you want consistent actions over time before you allow yourself to get sucked back in. Otherwise, you may get hurt again and have to detach all over again.

By the way, people who want to reconcile don't ask you what you are going to tell the kids about divorce. So begin to accept that divorce is what is going to happen. Acceptance is key to letting go of some of the emotion.

This is going to hurt like hell. But you can handle it. And you have us.

Please don't waste 4 yrs banging your head against a wall like I did.

And almost 4 yrs after divorce, I realize my kids would have been better off if I had divorced him right after d-day.

(((squid)))

I'm just so exhausted. I posted in another thread about this. It's like trying to reason with a brick wall. I'm expecting some level of emotional release from her, but I get nothing. She has the emotional capacity of a 13 year old, with all of the rebelliousness. Which comes in the form of blameshifting and gaslighting.

Damaged broken people break everyone around them if they aren't willing to get help.

I 100% feel that.

a. The wait 6 months is good. Tell your W and that you expect progress before or you will D (period). She now has to (and tell her this too) get her shit together or get it out, 2 months left, time is ticking ... Sounds harsh? Afterward you will be able to tell yourself and your kids you did everything humanly possible and were very very fair. Set yourself up now for being able to say feel and believe this!

b. Do *not* fire your IC. I think what he is telling you is what I see often in your posts. You do not want to lose your W (or the one you had), but cannot of course live like this or even near to it. Simply get this point to him. I think / suspect also he's going to let you make that decision at 6 months or so anyway. I.e. I think he's trying to do what you say you want.

c. Hang on tight mate...

I'm barely hanging on. But I'm hanging on. I've discussed with my IC about the 6 month timeline and he thinks it's good to not just let this thing drag out for too long.

Acceptance is key to letting go of some of the emotion.

IC has told me in the past, she's not who I thought she was, she's gone, she's broken, there's no way I could have known this years ago. NPD rears its head years later. So hard to accept. But the acceptance is settling in. I think I'm stubbornly fighting it.

I won't make any huge decisions until I'm 6 months out from D-day

I don't think this is always the best decision. To me, if they are remorseful and showing you they are doing the work, then absolutely give them 6 months. However, if they aren't, then why wait? Enduring 6 months of hell just to be able to say you waited is only hurting you even more.

I don't think this is always the best decision. To me, if they are remorseful and showing you they are doing the work, then absolutely give them 6 months. However, if they aren't, then why wait? Enduring 6 months of hell just to be able to say you waited is only hurting you even more.

I completely agree with this. There really isn't any point in waiting unless there is actual progress being made. Which there isn't. I get that you don't want to act decisively during the immediate crisis here, but one way to get over that hurtle is to actually take action. Otherwise you're really just dragging things out and that's not good for anyone, let alone you.

Your WW isn't doing jack shit to get this M on track and there isn't any point in hanging around. It is about accepting that this won't be get better for you, because it won't. And the sooner you accept that, the sooner you can make decisions based on that reality.

she doesn't feel..

no fear of losing you

no concern about your feelings

afraid of pushing to far yet again,

making you too angry , after cheating on you...

she doesn't feel...she doesn't care...

she doesn't own any of it...

I agree...take control....decide what you want, tell her what you require, and stand strong by it....this is your life she is shredding....take it back...

Its not your fault...but it is your choice now..its up to you....

[This message edited by cancuncrushed at 12:39 PM, June 23rd (Friday)]

I was given that same shitty advice to wait before filing. It was well meaning, but the absolute WORST advice I ever had. My X was just as unremorseful as yours. While I was waiting and praying for God to touch him so he would remember the love he once had and come to his senses, he was sneaking around behind my back still communicating with Shrek, and they were actively planning how to best fuck me over in the D. I waited 2 months and couldn't take that shitty advice anymore because his lack of concern for how much he was hurting me was too painful. I thank everyday that I woke up and smelled the coffee. He did manage to steel all of the money out of our savings, but I was able to stop him from liquidating and steeling our joint investments and filed asking for me to remain on his life insurance until sale of the home. He was served days before he was going to cancel the life insurance. I forensic'd his cell phone. The amount of BS he was going to do to me was horrible.

If your wife was remorseful, that would be when waiting would be acceptable advice. Someone telling you to wait when you are actively being abused is ridiculous. What if it were physical abuse. I can just imagine the uproar if my X husband were beating my ass on the daily and somebody told me to wait 6 months and hope he'd finally grow to love me again and stop abusing me.

Choosing to stay for more abuse is also unhealthy co-dependent behavior. And you run the risk of teaching your children that staying in abuse is acceptable. Just know, that if you choose to not file while she is still actively abusing you, then you are choosing to accept more pain and disrespect from her abuse.

Read back your statement again about how you are barely hanging on. Read back again about how much pain you CHOOSE to accept because you are staying in the abuse. Abuse is abuse no matter if it's physical or emotional. Would you advise a friend to stay if they were being punched everyday?

I agree with what has already been advised.

I'm sorry squid but I believe in the vast majority of cases unless a WW 'gets it' straight away the marriage is usually over. Once they've checked out that's it. Start regaining control of your life and your destiny!

My IC told me I'm my own worst enemy right now. He's been trying like hell to keep me from filing. He tried to tell me that I could never leave her. She's just a broken child that needs help. Give her time.

WTF!

Your IC is a clown! You're paying someone who's actually delaying your eventual recovery from this shitstorm imho.

Be strong!

OH Squid my friend, you are so lost, and being led down a path to nowhere.

Only you can change things.

You accept the fact that your wife cheated, broke NC, and has done essentially nothing to make real and significant changes. You have lost your M. It is dead.

You want things to change? Then change them. Why would you wait when you are being abused, and your spouse is doing nothing significant to demonstrate change?

Get to the Lawyer, draw up D papers, then sit her down, and hand them to her, and have a parenting plan, and separation plan ready at the same time. She will NOT make changes until her cake is taken away. Right now she has lost nothing, and therefor feels no need to change anything.

If for some reason her selfish broken ass wakes up when you file, then you can watch her actions from afar, and see if she makes real and meaningful change, without her constantly yammering in your ear that you are the bad guy, and she loves you. Her words mean nothing at this point, and actions mean everything.

If your child was being treated like she is treating you what you tell them, how would you help them? Then do the same damn thing for yourself.

I deeply appreciate the 2x4's, everyone. I need them.

Someone telling you to wait when you are actively being abused is ridiculous. What if it were physical abuse. I can just imagine the uproar if my X husband were beating my ass on the daily and somebody told me to wait 6 months and hope he'd finally grow to love me again and stop abusing me.

I said the same thing to my IC in my last session. "If it was a guy emotionally abusing his wife would you advise her to stay?" He's pro-reconciliation, but I think too stubborn about it. He also IC's my WW so he understands our dynamic. He sees her mental illness and thinks she needs time to fix herself. I said, "Well maybe she needs to do that on her own. I can't be in this relationship anymore." He's trying to work to steer her in the right direction. Meanwhile I'm going batshit crazy.

[This message edited by squid at 4:01 PM, June 23rd, 2017 (Friday)]

He also IC's my WW so he understands our dynamic.

Is that ethical counselling practice in the US?

Surely your IC has a major conflict of interest?