SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Her title is wrong. Happy people do not cheat. She is not condoning; she is trying to explain, to give reasons but obviously cheaters have their reasons--as do thieves, murderers, liars, racists, sexists and writers. And no doubt cheaters cheat to feel good--some with traditional APs, some with EPs, some with prostitutes. Some cheat using the internet. They cheat thinking they derive some benefit. She hasn't said anything unusual. It's a feel good choice.

But it's not done by happy people. Cheating arrises from discontent. People who are happy do not lie and deceive. They do not abuse others.

Cheaters typically do not want to end their primary relationship. They want to keep the home secure while they betray. But their wanting both does not mean they are happy. Some who cheat do profess and feel they "love" their husbands, wives, SOs--they just want, love, need, etc. the other stuff too--maybe not more but a lot.

So she's really stated the obvious but she's fancified betrayal, she writes well and she gets published in a well respected journal. She's put a serious amount of lipstick on the pig using a simple yet provocative title and an obvious explanation dress up as a seemingly profoundome analysis.

I thought it was an excellent article.

Understanding does not mean justifying nor condoning as the article notes.

Not every work on infidelity has to be about the betrayed.

It's ok to have a discussion about waywards and what is goin on inside their heads. Don't we ask them to figure out their 'whys'?

Again, I hope people don't trash the author because she is not focusing on the betrayed.

The problem the author will encounter is that from the BH viewpoint, and using her example affair and BH, it does NOT matter that "the affair was not meant to be a rejection of him." WWs need to understand that and get a better handle on male sexuality and male sexual identity.

How, exactly, does “falling in love with a new and exciting version of themselves” equate to fucking someone to whom they are not married? How does it translate into lies and deception?

I mean, have they never heard of rock climbing or bungee jumping? Or volunteering - but not genitally, of course. How does one fall in love with being a back-stabbing betrayer of one’s spouse and, presumably, one’s own values?

It’s one thing to try to distill the motivations of a WS, and then understand/explain them. It’s another thing altogether to make it sound like a lovely journey that anyone would want to take.

It is all insulting regardless of the reason. The fact is that cheating puts the happiness of the cheater above the happiness of all others. The cheater's "happiness" is given priority over the happiness of his or her spouse and any children who may exist. It is the "all is fair in love and war" mentality. But it is much more like war than love because the cheater's happiness means that he or she doesn't consider that there are likely to be casualties. It is an unbelievably egregious selfishness and Esther Perel can write whatever she wants about it but it won't change my thinking that if you have to destroy your entire family for your own happiness, there is something seriously fucked up about what makes you happy.

I think the article would have been better titled "Why Do Broken People Cheat?" The main char is her example was a woman who felt cut off from a part of herself. Feeling vulnerable to attraction to Truck Guy AT THE VERY BEGINNING should have been an indicator that something was broken or lacking in her, the marriage or both. I don't think many of us condemn people for finding others attractive or wondering "What if?". But crossing the line into infidelity is where I lose respect for the argument. As others have said, a yearning for more thrill doesn't justify my murdering people. But it would be a VERY good idea to ask WHY I'm feeling urges to kill people. I would agree with her comment about how uncomfortable it is to discuss infidelity in our society. Should people be cheating and betraying their partners? Absolutely not! But it's happening a lot every day. Maybe some parts of her article might help some people figure out why they're tempted before they cross or line. Or at least open a discussion.

Oh, that's perfect, Icewraithonyx! I read that article a month ago (ironically, on the same day I peeped my WH's phone password, so I was suspicious but didn't know what was what yet), and I felt the same way. It almost made infidelity sound like a grand adventure, instead of scratching beneath the surface and revealing how broken people are.

Now that I know that my serial cheater WH is cheating, and one of his kids has shared with me the truth about his first marriage, I get part of what the article is saying. My WH loves to be the new man, the prince charming in a woman's life. It makes him feel better about being a lousy husband and father. And if he does get involved with a woman who knows he's married, all he has to do is lie about how awful I am (I know, he lies about his ex-wife all the time, but, for the record, they were divorced 10 years by the time we met.) and those women feel that they are easing his pain and being good women to him versus the crazy shrew at home.

I'd love to say that therapy is the answer, but my WH has been to three different therapists in six years and the most insight he's revealed to me is that the therapist thinks he cheats because his parents put him in boarding school as a teenager and he feels abandoned. He'd love the Atlantic article - it absolves him of responsibility, as usual.

Thanks for posting your opinion!

It is an unbelievably egregious selfishness and Esther Perel can write whatever she wants about it but it won't change my thinking that if you have to destroy your entire family for your own happiness, there is something seriously fucked up about what makes you happy.

^^^^^^^^^this 1000%

It's ok to have a discussion about waywards and what is goin on inside their heads. Don't we ask them to figure out their 'whys'?

Had the same thought as redhorse on that. We do ask (obsess) about why they did what they did. I just find it odd that she receives so much attention for stating the obvious while misunderstanding their "happiness."

redhorse says it gives understanding re male sexuality but the betrayer in the article is a woman who says she is happy in her marriage but continues to affair and gets psychological satisfaction from it and the lady does not seem happy at all. If she was actually happy she would not be a client of EP.

Maybe EP is simply naive and unfamiliar with the varieties of betrayal and betrayers.

Yes, many who cheat blame their spouses, partners, SOs. Some complain bitterly about their marriage and or partner. It's boring, or lonely, or whatever. They cheated because they were angry or depressed, they felt unloved, unappreciated, etc. But there are those who cheat who have no particular complaints about their partners; they have no wish to separate. They do not blame their partners for anything--they just find something else they like as well.

EP does speak of the trauma the betrayal causes; the horrific damage created. She is not condoning infidelity but she seems to think she is offering some new take on what we here at SI refer to as ego kibbles. She's just ignoring that the need for such and the choice to violate ones primary relationship shows serious discontent, not happy.

Ester Perel's article is vulgar because she makes it clear she knows little of infidelity. If she were to spend some time here on SI she would realize her depth of ignorance.

Esther Perel is hot garbage. Everything reeks of an academic psychologist explaining to a bereaved family that the childhood trauma of the guy who killed and ate their mother really had an impact on his behavior.

She seems to have all of these reptile-brain explanations of how we weren't meant to be monogamous, which are valid, but really ignorant. Men used to kill other men in order to take their mate. How would she feel about that behavior? It's natural. Isn't it our jobs as humans to rise above our baser instincts?

Marriage and monogamy are at-will activities. No one held a gun to my wife's head to get her to marry me.

[This message edited by xhz700 at 1:10 PM, September 25th (Monday)]

I read the article and it really isn't that unconventional to SI wisdom. The problem wasn't the marriage, it was with the wayward. The BS had nothing to do with why WW had the affair.

In this case, WW was in a happy, loving marriage. It was perfect by conventional wisdom, nothing was really missing. But sex with Truck Guy made her feel alive. Putting everything she was happy about in life at risk for someone that she knew she had no future with made it so dangerous and exciting.

From her article:

Contained within the small circle of the wedding band are vastly contradictory ideals. We want our chosen one to offer stability, safety, predictability, and dependability. And we want that very same person to supply awe, mystery, adventure, and risk. We expect comfort and edge, familiarity and novelty, continuity and surprise. We have conjured up a new Olympus, where love will remain unconditional, intimacy enthralling, and sex oh so exciting, with one person, for the long haul. And the long haul keeps getting longer.

Why did the WW stray? Because stable, safe, dependable becomes boring. She wanted the mystery, adventure, risk that affair sex brings attached.

The author didn't make any grand revelations, just how affairs occur and why they are different and intoxicating in the Wayward's POV. She says she isn't condoning affairs, only offering insight into them. She says affairs are extremely destructive and are the main reason marriages end, and almost all affair relationships die too once they are outed even if the marriage ends.

I thought it was well-written. The only thing atypical is we automatically assume here the Wayward is broken, but its not always that simple.

Priya’s affair is neither a symptom nor a pathology; it’s a crisis of identity, an internal rearrangement of her personality

.

It's worth a read.

[This message edited by Randy1133 at 2:19 PM, September 25th (Monday)]

Priya’s affair is neither a symptom nor a pathology; it’s a crisis of identity, an internal rearrangement of her personality

Randy your choice of quotes certainly makes the point your making about EP's point, but while Priya's choice might not be pathological, Priya is not someone who was actually happy in her M and not someone happy affairing either. She feels more "alive" with trucker guy? Indeed, isn't that what a lot of betrayers say? Indeed, notwithstanding the variety of cheaters, the traditional P/E/A people, the just PAers, the just EAers, the, EIers, the pay for sexes, the addictive pornousers, the hardcore SAers , regular serial sexters, etc. aren't they all looking to "feel good" when something else is "missing" or "stressing?" Isn't betrayal the search for feel good? doesn't the betrayal continue because it does feel good? An internal rearrangement of her personality? Really? Do happy people want/need/ such a rearrangement? Sounds more like someone depressed with life and how can someone depressed with life really be happy with their M?

Seems she's just elaborated for magazine length some of the meaning of ego kibbles.

Who is easter pearl?

Reading Ester Perel or watching her TED talk can be very painful. But she has many insights that are important. Like SI, take what you need and leave the rest. I especially like her quote:

I often say to my patients that if they could bring into their marriage one-tenth of the boldness and the playfulness that they bring to their affair, their home life would feel quite different.

I think the single most painful thing I realized in her TED talk was that I was not the problem, therefor there was little I could have done to prevent my fWW from cheating. It was about her and I had NO control. She had a great marriage, and I was a good husband. But she thought she needed something more. What EP says is that if she had put that passion and boldness into our marriage, she would have had the things she needed.

It was a hard statement for my fWW to hear. She realized that the affair, no matter my flaws, was all her fault and only she could have prevented it.

That was our take away.

see but i always knew the affair wasn't about me. that still doesn't make it hurt less. that's why i don't understand the need for some to have a RA. that means it's about them. or at least they want equal footing or justice or something.

the whys will never be about the BS so i'm not sure it matters so much. the recovery from the affair and all that brings - lack of trust, etc, who cares about the why really. i'm still collateral damage.

I guess for me, and later for her, the why's were the most important part of recovery, and being honest about the As was the only way to build trust back.

Do happy people want/need/ such a rearrangement? Sounds more like someone depressed with life and how can someone depressed with life really be happy with their M?

Maybe they are happy but not satisfied. Can't you be both? You know like someone that is happy with their job but always strives for a promotion. I think what she is saying is people tend to get hung up on "what if" scenarios. I always do the right thing because its safe, what if I do the wrong thing just because if feels good? What if this person on FB that I use to date is really my soulmate, not my wife/husband.

I think a lot of people lose interest in their marriage after awhile, not because its bad or they don't love their spouse, but it may feel boring and stale and they crave the new and exciting. They relax their boundaries and stop doing the right things that are safe and dependable, and give in to the bad things that are mysterious and exciting. They feel young again. Its all bullshit fantasy that is sure to end badly, but you have already started thinking with your crotch at that point.

I get that we have undiscovered, exciting parts of ourselves. I just think that M vows mean that I'll look for those parts with my W if sex or secrecy is involved, not with anyone else.

It's possible that EP goes wrong in thinking the Priyas of this world are actually finding new parts. I'd be OK with that part of the article if she said, 'The Priyas of this world think they are actually finding new parts. Actually, while they might be learning more about themselves, they are also hiding from, at the very least, the people they're betraying, and in many cases, they're hiding from themselves, too.'

My W said she felt as if she was using ow to have sex with herself, which is similar, and perhaps identical, to some of what EP says. So IMO she understands some of what's going on, she misses some critical factors.

As for connecting with exes and thereby ruining a good M, I don't get it. I know it's done frequently, but I don't get it, so I can't comment.

*********************************************

Why did the WW stray? Because stable, safe, dependable becomes boring. She wanted the mystery, adventure, risk that affair sex brings attached.

I don't read that in the article at all - it's not the sex, according to EP; it's finding that new part of herself that Priya really wants. IMO, that's different from 'mystery, adventure, and risk,' especially since Priya was fearful because of the risks she was taking.

If I'm misreading the article - and that's eminently possible - let me know.

Unaware that she is giving voice to one of the most common experiences of the unfaithful, she tells me, “It makes me feel alive.”

Her marriage gives her comfort; she likes her H; she loves her H and no, it's not her H's fault, but she isn't really happy. She doesn't really feel alive. Something feels missing. Seems like trucker tattoo guy is medication for her ennui. It's not just the sex but the whole scene and flavor--her affair high.

Randy says, maybe cheaters can be happy in their M but not satisfied. Not sure that isn't a semantic nicety. Problem is the betrayers are not satisfied with themselves. Something is missing. They affair to feel alive. That they risk so much for that "alive" feeling isn't healthy and isn't happy. EP just seems to be ignoring the brokeness in Priya the very unhappiness underlying the seeming contentedness of her nice life, devoted husband, etc.

Dr. Basel Van Der Kolk in his book on trauma, The Body Keeps the Score, repeatedly talks of the healed person no longer looking for highs to escape trauma-based numbness; the person who has healthfully dealt with his or her trauma will be content with simple things such simple things as shopping in the super market. It's actually more than "just content" it's feeling alive with the more mundane, the everyday things. My guess is that a trained trauma specialist might consider Priya's affair pleasure to be an unwise medication for a prior trauma. Not an expression of happiness.

Weird, it makes you feel alive to be off nailing Trucker Guy without having to worry about "chores" or "money" or "being considerate of others" while your family is off, you know, living in the real world?

Who woulda thought.