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I can speak for at least 3 other vets that have left because our voices are not valued like they once were. I no longer post here because I am drowned out by those voices that are louder, harsher, and not at all helpful. That's JMHO from a vet...

That’s very sad. It’s hard to understand how the voices of levelheaded and helpful veteran WS contributors could be perceived by anyone as being of diminished value. A loud, harsh voice is not always necessarily the best one. In fact, it might not be contributing anything beneficial. The absence of a number of balanced veterans might be part of the reason a lot of waywards disappear from here without getting what they need, which is sad and ultimately hurts the BS and the family when the wayward is saddled with bad advice and/or run off by harsh words.

Humility is needed but in short supply.

It would not hurt to show a bit more empathy for the waywards, especially in the wayward forum.

I will tell you that SI is very unique in that there is a special protected forum, in which waywards can post. It is moderated and BS’s often lose access to this forum for not following the guidelines.

FeonixRising, I’m not really sure what you mean by the SI script”. Why would it work for veterans, but doesn’t necessarily work for newer waywards? What makes your journey different from the thousands of us before you? Maybe I am misunderstanding what you were saying?

I can speak for at least 3 other vets that have left because our voices are not valued like they once were. I no longer post here because I am drowned out by those voices that are louder, harsher, and not at all helpful. That's JMHO from a vet...

Sometimes there is more going on than what shows up on the surface. The staff is here to help moderate the disagreements on the board. Once again, if there are specific issues, please contact a moderator.

I'm not a wayward but, I've made plenty of bad choices in my life. I really believe that even though there is such intense pain here we should strive to be empathetic to people who are reaching out for help. I believe that as a BS - we can be an invaluable resource that WSs can use to accrue appropriate information and advice. I understand the rage and the hurt that courses through so many of us, but it is illogical and imho irresponsible to project our experiences and pain on to people who A.) are not the ones who betrayed us and B.) are (for the most part) taking that first step - always the hardest step - and reaching out to learn how to help the people they destroyed, and how to make themselves healthier mentally.

It would be great if we could just sugarcoat everything... but that never works. People sometimes need a bit of a fire under their ass to get them to understand that their actions were wrong and devastating and that can't be fixed in a matter of days, weeks, or even months.

Waywards hurt and are afraid, I for one hope in some small way I can encourage them to keep up the hard work while trying to keep them honest.

I truly hope for peace for all of us traveling this nightmare of a journey.

Humility means you are open to learn even if it is hard.

Pride is an overinflated ego that says I know everything.

No one knows everything. Some of our conclusions, that we hold on to vehemently ,if we are open to learning (humility) need to scrapped.

This applies to everyone. Every SI

acronym.

I have a relative who has left his marriage. We don't believe he left for another woman, but he has one now.

When we as a family challenged him on some of his views he responded 'Theres nothing wrong with me. I'm quite a catch really'

Narcissistic arrogance has killed his marriage and is destroying the relationships with his family.

Arrogance and pride kill relationships.

Every SI acronym needs to learn humility and teachability if reconciliation is going to grow

thank you ZMW... xoxoxo

WOE

I think I can relate to what FoenixRising is referring in a very personal way. Because I have not confessed, I’ve been attacked, called names, told that I’m a troll,selfish and the list goes on. The SI “script”, if you will, mandates that you confess. While I agree that it’s appropriate in some cases, it may not be for all. Yet many (and I’m speaking for WS here) beat me over the head because I have not done so. IMO, it’s pretty hypocritical for these folks to call me out for something that they didn’t do themselves. Instead of acknowledging that I’m still here and working on myself, most threads that I start or involved in end up with people discounting whatever I say because I haven’t confessed.

I wholeheartedly agree that people should step back from a newbies thread if they feel they’re getting heated or the OP is getting defensive. They’re is a way to reach a person without a 2x4. Yes sometimes they’re warranted but a person should feel welcome to post and not afraid. It serves no purpose if someone gets “run off” Not them, not their family and certainly not their BS. It certainly does hurt or cost any one of us posters to show some level of kndness.

BS should not be aggressive and chasing WS away. I oftne wonder why there aren't more stop signs for new WS. WS are hurting too. Some don't even know the extent of how much until time goes by. I want everyone to heal and be the best person they can be. Every person that doesn't give up is a better person for their families and out in the world.

Waywards tend to be harsher because they have been there. One of the most saddening things for me is seeing waywards making the same stupid mistakes as I did.

I tend not to post as much as I did because the voice has changed a bit it feels harsher.

From th first post I read on SI, I knew how important WS input could be to my recovery. DS, AN, Floridaredman, HUFI, Aubrie, MissesJai, 'C-1-wish', others whose names I don't quite remember now ... you folks made my life so much better than it was without you!

I'm still sad about encouraging WSes to post in R, only to see one who put her toes back into R get savaged just because she was once a WS.

MJ, There are some nasty voices that try to drown out love and experience. Letting them drown you out, though, lets them win. I don't know what it's like to be attacked, so I can only imagine what you say, but ... you're missed and appreciated. I wish you'd come back.

Because I have not confessed, I’ve been attacked, called names, told that I’m a troll,selfish and the list goes on.

I don't know how to put this gently, ff. It seems to me that honesty with yourself and with your BS is absolutely crucial to living a good life and a good M, and you're lying by omission. I don't get it.

Have you not read of the great horror of finding out about an A long after the fact? What allows to set your BS and you up for that horror?

If you've gone through the explanations before, by all means ignore my questions, but if you'd care to answer, I'd appreciate it.

[This message edited by sisoon at 12:05 PM, July 4th (Wednesday)]

sisoon

To briefly sum it up, my child attempted suicide towards the end of 2016. I ended the A a couple of weeks later. Approximately 1 month after I ended the A, my wife lost a very close family member. So the prevailing wisdom at the time was to toss even more heartache into that mess by confessing. I call crap to that.

Now all of this time later, things are “better” but precarious. I will be the first to admit that I am conflicted about keeping this secret. But I don’t for one second think I would be doing my family any favors by confessing. It seems pretty self serving to dump this burden on my family just to ease my guilt. I cannot undo what I’ve done but I can become a better husband and father. I am a better person but I still have a long way to go.

[This message edited by ff4152 at 7:32 AM, July 5th (Thursday)]

I for one know that I need the 2x4s and harshness. It is the only thing that seems to get through for me. In my opinion it is all very specific to the wayward and the stage that they are in. Being defensive or trying to rationalize is a place that I live way to often and the 2x4s here and from my BS help bring me out of that wayward thinking and back to reality.

Hi MissesJai,

Please don't let those voices drive you away. I think you may have 'touched' more people than you might realize and I see no reason why that would not be equally true today.

WOES, as always, thank you for all that you do here.

Tired Girl here,

I had to post under HL's name as I have apparently been banned. Not sure why, but it is what it is. This is the last time, and as I am sure he will be banned after this, he accepts what is coming.

I was going to come in to give MJ some support in what she was trying to say. Me and a few other veteran waywards left after we tried to make our voices heard about what was happening on this site after DS passed away and no one would listen. No one is apparently still listening as MJ brought it up and was quickly dismissed by WOES. I have seen threads recently where people are talking about this, we saw this early on and were dismissed. We were shut down and told it was not happening.

Sometimes there is more going on than what shows up on the surface. The staff is here to help moderate the disagreements on the board. Once again, if there are specific issues, please contact a moderator.

I remember a time when our voices were valued and made a difference. That time has passed and that was why we left. Our voices have been drowned out by the majority that have been allowed to take over this site and now run it.

I will always and forever be grateful to the voices that were here when I came here almost 9 years ago. They literally saved my life, and my family. Those voices are no longer here and that makes me sad. There are so many here in wayward that need them. The tone here in wayward is not even close to what it was when I came here. I came here every day and it was like coming home and finding the people that I knew ulitmately had my back and could help me. My heart still hurts that DS is no longer with us and her voice is no longer here for the new waywards.

MJ is right. And I am sorry that the waywards that come after us don't have the benefit of what we had.

tired girl,

You were banned for a variety of reasons. But your most recent infraction was a public exit announcement. DS and the rest of the staff were kind enough to let you come back the first time you had a temper tantrum and breached the guidelines. We made it clear that was your last chance.

You and HL have been claiming this site has changed since 2013. Why do you keep coming back? The site and policies have not changed. You have. This site is to support people affected by infidelity. You and your clique outgrew that and were here instead as cheerleaders for those who wanted to morph SI into something we never intended.

Our voices have been drowned out by the majority that have been allowed to take over this site and now run it.

That statement is laughable. WOES and the rest of the moderators knew DS personally. They are here to keep this site functioning as it was before DS passed on.

/end threadjack

I marinated on this for a few days because I needed time to figure out how to say what I need to say without being intentionally shitty or hurtful. Ironically, that seems to be the culture here these days so it's funny that I still try to be civil in the face of what I feel is a huge culture shift in the wrong direction.

First, there is no fucking clique. I know that statement was directed at me by way of a response to TG. There were FWS's who echoed similar sentiments and advice but there is no clique. THAT comment is laughable.

those who wanted to morph SI into something we never intended.

what exactly were we trying to morph it into? Because all we wanted was for things to stay the same. Who knew that sharing the idea that we are human, we are not monsters and that BS's can and often do behave badly makes us a clique????

Secondly,

MJ, There are some nasty voices that try to drown out love and experience. Letting them drown you out, though, lets them win. I don't know what it's like to be attacked, so I can only imagine what you say, but ... you're missed and appreciated. I wish you'd come back.

thank you so much sisoon. You're one of those that gets it. I wish more were like you - both WS and BS. I dipped my toe back in and soon realized I made the right decision by leaving. My kind of help, the kind that advocates for the rights of a remorseful WS, even when that means calling out abusive behaviors at the hands of the BS with no free passes just because they are a BS, is no longer valued here. I realize this won't sit well with some, but this is MY experience and I am entitled to it. If you don't agree, that's fine. I don't need you to validate my experience. I know what I see and feel. And I don't mean YOU, sisoon. I am saying you in a general sense.

I have seen so many new WS's chased away by other relatively new WS's who have adopted the mentality that lifelong punishment is to be expected and tolerated and by BS's in pain who project all over these new WS's as if they were their spouses. These BS's don't get banned - they get warnings and reminders but they get to stay. I have experienced firsthand being attacked by a "veteran" BS - and no I am not going to call him out here or in PM so miss me with that - only to see him do the same and worse to others. He is still an active member here and he continues to be an abusive asshole who projects his shit all over any WS he can. He just gets repeated hand slaps. I have seen an increase in the number of BS's advocating and celebrating the abuse of the WS and other BS's encouraging this horrible behavior.

There was a time when WS's had an armor of protection in the form of DS. Nobody got away with attacking us, especially in our own forum. She made sure of it. If she saw things were getting a bit heated, she stepped in, either on the thread, or via a PM. She often encouraged me via PM to be strong, to not internalize the projection, and to stick around despite the attacks. Her spirit permeated all of SI. No forum guidelines can replicate her energy. I am not expecting someone to be a clone of her but it would be nice to know that the armor was passed on to someone with a similar mindset. From what I've seen, that hasn't happened.

The SI that saved my life and the lives of many others is gone. And that is disappointing on so many levels. I wish the new WS's had a chance to experience DS. Nobody has ever had my back like she did, especially in my darkest days. She was my lifeline. I will forever be grateful for her.

Please don't let those voices drive you away

I appreciate your sentiment but I can’t and won’t stay where I am not wanted, Unhinged. I left my marriage because I don’t stay where I am not wanted. My time and energy are precious. I am not going to scream just to be heard. I shouldn't have to, and I won't.

[This message edited by MissesJai at 12:47 PM, July 11th (Wednesday)]

MJ- your post resonates with me so much! For years I’ve endured every angle of difficult marriage and truly became someone I no longer knew. Numb. A shell of the woman I used to be. Broken. Lonely and not for lack of trying in every way possible to make my marriage work. Begging and pleading for change only to be met with ‘yeah, later.’ My A was the wrong choice for me to make because of who it was with and who I hurt bc of it but somehow, I’ve come out of it, am finding myself, picking up pieces and NOW my H wasn’t to work it out. Sometimes I feel so mad at him bc it took me to be willing to D, jeopardize my family, ruin my reputation, lose my integrity, ruin friends, label myself wayward, check myself into a psych ward, consider suicide and almost completely lose my mind for him to say that he loved me and wanted our marriage to work. When I was doing everything right and still held my pride he wouldn’t consider it. Now, that I’m damaged he wants to work it out. I want to check back in but i am so uncertain it’s the right thing to do and if my reasons are authentically about love. It’s so hard to really be honest here in SI bc it’s iften met with ‘you aren’t remorseful’ or ‘how are you owning your shit?’ And o want to say I’m remorseful that I hurt so many people but my marriage, still as fragile as it might be, is leaps and bounds better than it was a year ago. And I am owning my shit but I am still so hurt bc of the past and sometimes I just want BS to own that too instead of just trying to move past it all. I want to get down and dirty in trenches with him and us both own our shit together but here everything is my fault and BS is perfect, and I assure you he is not. So anyhow, just hearing that there used to be a lot of WS’s that could relate to my plight really helps me to 1- not feel so lonely and broken 2- normal. I have been so close to just leaving this forum bc the script is not one I fully support. If I post something controversial, 1,000 comments that I dint get it that I need blah blah blah but I posted almost 24 hours ago about how to support my BS as affair season comes and crickets. Maybe people could or should be more open to share how to prepare for different things in this journey rather than spouting what is wrong that is being done in recovery. In any case, I’m glad to see you here and so hope you continue to post.

And in FF’s case, he has made it evident that he is not going to yell his wife. I’ve read his story and support him in this decision bc right now, that’s just not an option that he’s willing to consider. Rather than pound down on him that he holds no value in these forums bc he has not come clean isn’t going to help him. So maybe it would be better to move past that CONFESS!!!!!’ attitude with him. Sadly that seems to be what he’s met with. He can still do other things to become a better person. To look at his whys and still evolve. He has moved forward but he hasn’t done it the SI way. That’s what I meant by ‘script’.

I think it’s interesting that this is the direction the original post has headed. I’m sure there’s loads more to this story about the veteran waywards that I’m not aware of but I can tell that the responses seem to be written with a level head and not mostly out of anger. I can only take the site for what it is now and even if you just lurk it’s still helpful. IMHO there are people here who I question why they post still and they get me pissed off but I’m not here for them. I’m here on a free site that I can walk away from at any time that’s supervised by people who are passionate and seem genuine in their concearn for strangers. I appreciate that. I think it’s easy to wish that there were more hugs and rainbows for the waywards but I know that even I sometimes struggle reading certain posters. I would assume it’s something different for each person. For me having some of the other BS hate me on principal alone comes with the terrritory but the ones that are helpful are still here too. Theres a lot of hurt here, lots of hate, but there wouldn’t be so many members if there isn’t some caring too. I think the narrative will only change if there’s honesty. A not so popular topic might yield some hate but maybe some good too?

As a new member here and 3 months from finding out about my spouses affair, I love your post. I haven’t read many yet but my life has been a living hell since I found out. Normally an outgoing, happy person, my would was rocked by my husband of almost 25 years. Compassion and empathy is what I expect from him right now and he will have to tolerate my crazy because I didn’t have that before he had an affair.

As a new member here and 3 months from finding out about my spouses affair, I love your post. I haven’t read many yet but my life has been a living hell since I found out. Normally an outgoing, happy person, my would was rocked by my husband of almost 25 years. Compassion and empathy is what I expect from him right now and he will have to tolerate my crazy because I didn’t have that before he had an affair.