SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

BS here.

I think new wayward's may actually come here maybe to try and get some sympathy at first. I know my FWH went to IC right after dday and in his wayward mind at the time, thought his counselor would actually tell him it was ok to have an A and feel sorry for him.

I think there is NO humility or compassion for a BS in the beginning. Only selfishness and entitlement.

I do also think and completely believe a wayward can change and will change once their mind clears.

My FWH and I are trying to R and it's going well. We have both been to hell and back and we have both changed to make this new marriage a new beginning.

I do not feel my H should be punished for the rest of his life and I do not throw it in his face. Period. I made the choice to stay with him and in order for us to move past this, I had to release myself (and him) from the agony his infidelity caused us. But the both of us want the same thing and we are both doing the work together. I really think that is key.

I didn't cheat. He did, but I am not perfect and I, just like him, needed to look at myself in the mirror and like what I saw reflecting back at me. I knew I had to make some changes in myself, not for him, FOR MYSELF. I needed to be a better person and love myself so I could love and forgive him. Even if we split, I knew I was a better person now than I was.

If there is infidelity in a marriage and you decide to stay, you have to let it go. I am not saying forget, but you have to let it go and don't crucify the wayward if they have taken the steps to change themselves.

Still think there are generation gaps playing here as well. I see it at work, Hell I even see it in my out of high school nieces and nephews.

Really, I just think this place does pretty well and needs all voices with many different approaches based on their experience. If it didn't then this place might as well not exist and everyone can just buy the same book. If it was "Just Friends" we would all be in trouble. I do know male wayward veterans that stopped posting due to being told how to post just like me though that have contacted me. So, who knows maybe it is a male and female thing approach?

I think new wayward's may actually come here maybe to try and get some sympathy at first.

There are waywards here that are good at giving it. I don't think we all have to be that same way though. I think new waywards are looking for what the AP did and gave them. To stay in their comfort zone and to be lied to. To commiserate about how much isn't unfair that they brought upon themselves. It isn't easy to step outside the box of what they were doing to keep sheltered from reality for x amount of time with a partner in crime and to be expected to start behaving like a healthy mature adult. Of course the new wayward spouses are going to object. Doesn't mean that since it is hard and painful everyone should let that happen.

I really haven't seen more than 2-3 BS that think a person should be punished for life though. When I do, it doesn't bother me because I can see where they are coming from. Most had horrific waywards.

If there is infidelity in a marriage and you decide to stay, you have to let it go. I am not saying forget, but you have to let it go and don't crucify the wayward if they have taken the steps to change themselves.

I agree, when a WS has earned it and when a BS takes it upon themselves to heal for marriages. Hell, even if a WS doesn't earn it and the BS moves on. They have to let it go and heal without the WS.

As far as projections go. Sometimes the OPs need to be just as responsible as the posters in shifting through stuff and learn how to cope in a mature way to things they don't like or don't want to hear. I think it is reasonable to expect some to get a bit tougher and not to be as sensitive. Like water rolling off a ducks back. Take ownership in the one thing you can be certain of, controlling yourself including your reactions to posts.

Bumping this thread.

This is so spot on, even a year later.

This is a good thread. I pretty much beg my WW for some humility, compassion and empathy. Sometimes I feel like she doesn’t know how. I know I need to show her the same things but it’s very difficult at times.

Hallmack - for what it's worth, it takes a lot of time sometimes to absorb the magnitude of what you have done as a WS. I am not saying IAT will get there or won't get there, but from my own perspective we spend a lot of time in shame and regret at first. It's good in some ways because true change has to come from us not liking the picture of who we are. And, when we can accept the bad things about ourselves we can often then take in better what the BS has to say. It's when we get to a stage where we truly understand what we did to the BS that the resistance will fall off. We will accept our role and the amount of destruction. It's a process to get to full remorse.

As I said there is no guarantee from person to person on whether they get there or not so I can not provide that kind of assurance. I can only tell you that we were probably around 9 months from DDAY by the time I was able to say I was truly remorseful. I thought I was the whole time, but it was because I was evolving and seeing more and more. I don't know if that helps you or not. You have every right to be asking what you are asking for, and I just wanted to share from the other side that as long as there is consistent progress and effort - it may take longer than you like - she can get to that place too. She can't control the outcome of what you decide, and you can't control the outcome of the things she decides.

For that reason, most would tell you that you need to concentrate on you, your healing, protecting yourself and what you need, and work on healing regardless of whatever it is she is or isn't doing. It's hard to detach in that way from the person that you love, and are looking for reassurance from. But, I tell a lot of newer BS - we are still the same person who cheated in those early months, there isn't time for big change or growth. You are both in recovery mode. While IAT needs to provide you with an environment in which you can heal, and work on herself, it's still very much a watch and wait situation as for how the marriage will go. That's why sissoon always says: WS heals WS, BS heals BS, and together they heal the marriage. I believe this is very, very true. I am sorry, I know you are struggling.

Thanks for the response Hikingout, I’m starting to understand that I need to heal myself. Do things for myself. She isn’t capable of helping yet.

Agree with HikingOut. We spend a lot of time in denial first. Hallmack, you want something from someone that doesn't even love and respect themselves. I know it isn't right or fair, yet it is the truth and reality. It is going to take some time for them to see you. Right now all they are focused on is themselves and the repercussions of how their choices are going to affect themselves. Regret. And that is if the WS can even reach empathy to begin with. I am not saying just lacking it because they are self absorbed, but lacking it because there is some sort of pathy leading to lacking it. I don't even want to touch how long it takes if the WS is going into it with resentment issues as well. You just need to take stock and get yourself healthy. Then, you can judge what works for you and if there is enough progress forward to stay and keep working. Took me 18 months to get my head out of my ass. Both have to reconcile themselves before there is any chance at reconciling the marriage.

[This message edited by Zugzwang at 8:49 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)]

I find it hard not to be defensive when so many are quick to jump on, twist words and harp on things that are never said. It does make it hard to express many inner thoughts as they are taken well put of context and then stomped into the ground. Just mentioning a reservation is seen as some sort of abuse toward a BS. Saying, "I had such and such private thought" is threatening and no matter how many times you say that you never said anything of the sort to your husband it just doesnt matter. Ive been accused of everything from doling out abuse and taking joy from it to cuckolding. And there is an expectation that you become a complete doormat and stop having your own thoughts and expectations completely. Anything less provokes the empathy buzz word which is basically a catch all insult.

And there is an expectation that you become a complete doormat and stop having your own thoughts and expectations completely. Anything less provokes the empathy buzz word which is basically a catch all insult.

This simply isn’t true. There is a vast difference between being a doormat and being compassionate. It’s our own thoughts that brought us here in the first place. Being able to step back and pause and examine those thoughts, question them and understand them is different than being a doormat. In the aftermath of infidelity words do matter. They give clues to the thought process that lead to dysfunctional behavior. Humility is what allows us to stop that cycle and see it for what it is. With humility you can grow, doormats are static and flat.

Agree^^^

For as long as I have been here, WS are masters at backpedaling and usually saying exactly what they mean the first time, then when it is seen the wrong way or at fault they tend to recant what they said in order to hold onto that self image that they want so badly even though that self image is in front of a huge group of strangers. We also have no idea of the whys when we get here and magnitude of our actions and even behaviors. Well, at least some of us may know and also just don't want to admit it to ourselves and others (even a group of strangers you will never know in real life) just how bad we really are. The same person that thought it would be no big deal that they could have an affair and get away with it. The same person that thought they could have an affair and escape and choose not to. That same person that makes bad choices and lies to themselves and others. Hard to take most of what is said all the time at face value. Right fighters despite that fact that we are proven manipulators and liars.

Comes with the territory of being a manipulator and liar to have others on the other end of the screen who have owned it and gotten it to not believe it all when we KNOW what cheaters are and made of. Reasons being for backpedaling stuff varies. The same reasons why we had an affair. Hard to really say what you mean and what you meant by actions when you don't even know yourself and your whys. Especially before you own it and get it.

The things is why get so defensive? Readers are going to use their own experiences. Their time spent here and seeing patterns. Reading between the lines. A whole Hell of a lot of stuff to draw conclusions and to point stuff out. What is the big deal if in your opinion some of it is wrong? What difference and impact does it really make? Take what you can and leave the rest. You might even come back in a year and say, yeah...they were exactly right and I just didn't want to hear it or face it. Gives you something to chew on for a few months. You can chew on why it bothers you so much that strangers that have nothing to do with your life are wrong. In your day to day life, why does that matter and impact your self? What can you do to not have that impact you? Talk to you IC about it.