SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Anoldlion nailed it. Spot on.

There is an affair and then there is intent to be evil.

This affair was intent to be evil.

I am convinced my H started his last Affair as revenge against me b/c he was mad at me. I asked him not to do something - he continued to do it - I confronted him on it - and next thing you know he is having an Affair and then wa to a D a few months later. He refuses to admit it b/c it sounds terrible but I know it is true.

You’re not wrong. She had some type of vendetta - sexual on your birthday and having this guy engage with you - it is taunting behavior and sick.

Not sure how you rebound from this - but I was able to R with my H though he still claims to this day his Affair had nothing to do with the disagreement we had.

It's possible, but in most cases humiliation is not the right way to think about it. They do what they can get away with. If they depict you to the AP as an abuser or as neglectful or as otherwise deficient, this puts them in a positive role. Few people tell their affair partner - I'm in a happy marriage, my spouse is great, I'm just looking for something extra on the side. That makes them look bad. Much better to say - my spouse is an asshole, neglects me, controls me, beats me, etc. It's just another way they try to feel good about themselves.

Sleeping with him on your birthday was cold, and that's the one that strikes me most as intentional. Her telling him "secrets" about you - which you can be assured are lies - is par for the course. Same for her mom's bday. My ex let me singlehandedly clean, pack up, and move our house (which you'll know is huge amount of work if you've ever done it), while he worked on an important "project" which turned out to be the OW. They all do that shit. If you think about all this as intentional humiliation, you are going to twist yourself in all kinds of knots, and it's not really what was at the forefront of their minds, humiliation is just a side effect. IN MOST CASES. There have been one or two on here that clearly were a F U to the BS, but it's relatively rare.

That's a whole level of wicked like we rarely see here. A candidate for an SI Hall of Fame thread. We have a thread where the WW had unprotected afternoon sex with her AP, then, that same evening, let her BH perform oral on her. What your WW did to you is in that category. If it was Olympic gymnastics, your WW and/or the asshole she was fucking would be way up at the top in terms of degree of difficulty.

From the fact pattern, it does feel like it was the asshole she was fucking who was intentionally trying to humiliate people, including you. Like it was personal to him that he convinced your WW to fuck him on your birthday. However, the easiest word in the English language is "no", but instead, your WW said "yes" repeatedly when he wanted to insert Tab A into Slot B in ways that were clearly needlessly insulting toward you personally, and in this way she was complicit in these acts.

Not sure why you're even wondering what to do. Among other things, if you were to remain with her, what would you do for birthday celebrations between the two of you going forward? "I love thinking about the most memorable birthday you gave me, hun, that day you sent me home with the kids so you could fuck that asshole. That's a memory that will live with me for life, and I want to thank you for it."

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 2:03 PM, April 16th (Tuesday)]

There are two thoughtful posts here in response to your original message that counter the thought your WW was actively trying to humiliate you. Both of those make sense to me and I think they are a real possibility. Every WS is so wrapped up in their own needs that they become incredibly selfish and lack any sense of judgment regarding their marriage.

I think the incredible selfishness and lack of judgment are much more common than a WS trying to actively humiliate their spouse. That doesn't mean your WW wasn't trying to do it.... based on what you told us it is pretty easy to build a case against her for this behavior. But I think the odds are that she wasn't intending the humiliation even though it certainly ended up harming you in that fashion. If you think she is showing true remorse then I think that is the key indicator that her intent wasn't to humiliate you even though she did. If someone was so evil to do this to their spouse and they were actively seeking ways to humiliate then I doubt they would be remorseful after the fact. The remorse comes from the realization that what they have done was horrible in so many ways that they didn't or couldn't even imagine the negative impact their behaviors were having.

So perhaps that helps you some knowing that there are at least several of us who think it might not have been her intent. Of course the impact of her behavior still exists. And even if we chalk it up to the fact she was over-the-top, incredibly selfish and her judgment was blinded to such a degree that this all happened.... well, that is still an awful lot to recover from. Some of the actions were still particularly cruel and she has to do the work to understand how she could have been that way.

I also think that this is a bit of a double betrayal. Normally I think of that term when the WS betrays you with one of your own friends or family members. I don't know what type of secrets and information she shared but for me personally, I find that aspect similar to a double betrayal. The core betrayal of infidelity is very deep but for someone who prizes keeping their personal information private, having a WS share it with their AP is another level of betrayal. I know someone said that it happens all the time but I actually think that is incorrect. I think many WS don't actively talk about their spouse. Many actually avoid talking about their spouse during the A. It is likely much more common in an exit affair for this to happen. But it seems like your wife wasn't having an exit affair based upon you are observation of real remorse after the fact.

Someone else mentioned that all of this nasty behavior probably increased the excitement that comes from the illicit nature of the A for her. I think that's probably true. One way or the other, R or D, she needs to figure out how the hell she could have let all of this happen.

It's a lot to recover from. Make sure you get all the help you think you need and then add a little more into the mix to support yourself. No one would question it if you decide D is the answer. I am someone who thinks R is always possible but some of these shit piles are just so difficult to even imagine working through effectively.

Remember, you can and need to heal, R or D.

Feeldfool

I am proud and have high expectations of myself and those I let close

It is good that you have integrity and have high expectations for yourself but, as you have found out with your WW and her AP, you are unable to force these on anyone else. Either they have integrity or they do not.

There is not one of us betrayed spouses on SI that were or are perfect but none of us deserved what our wayward spouses heaped on to us. You just keep being you and build on who you are.

Are you thinking of D or R? Whatever you decide, rely on your integrity and high expectations of yourself.

I am very new to the site so I'm sure other members can give you much better advice, but to me both your WW and her AP sound like awful sadistic people who deserve each other. If I was you I would find what she did unforgivable and would divorce her. However, there is a chance that the AP was the one who really got off on the humiliation aspect (He even did it to his own wife trying to introduce your WW to her), and he manipulated and cajoled your wife into going along with it. It does sound like he was excited by the idea of humiliating you by possessing your wife and possibly pushing her to do things she wouldn't normally do. Is your wife the type of person to be easily influenced/manipulated by others? What are her reasons for doing what she did? You said she's been to IC, so is she able to articulate what drove her to do this? Does she seem truly remorseful or is she blame shifting and minimizing what she's done? I'm curious to know the nature of the "secrets" he knew... did he just hint around at this or did he actually tell you what he knew? If he didn't give you real info, then he could just be bluffing and trying to get under your skin. He's definitely the type to do that based on what you've shared so far.

Some people can eventually get over a sexual affair and for some, even sex one time is the end of the marriage.

With the way she acted and manipulated you and humiliated you she made a joke of you to the AP and anyone else who knew or suspected about the affair.

You may be able to R but a lot depends on her. Is she truly remorseful for the pain and humiliation she cause (doesn't sound like she is), or is she just sorry she got caught and trying to secure her Plan B (where you are the money machine and babysitter while she goes out and has her fun). She even chose him over you on your birthday. Sick and evil.

One major question to ask yourself, if you had not discovered the affair, would she have eventually stopped.

It is all up to you where to go from here.

Kids will be fine either way. Kids can sense tension, so staying in a bad marriage only for the kids is usually a mistake.

R is pointless here

If you can handle visiting your kids.. divorce is the ultimate statement... "I deserve respect"

If you can live with that manner of disrespect, you would be a robot!

yes, Anoldlion nailed it.

With self respect comes the inability to get over being disgraced. There is nothing wrong with that.

you did well on the exposure and slapping him back. The fact that your wife obviously shared info about you with him that can be used against you, followed by the vicious things she did, most people would not be able to get over.

Lawyer up, 180 and assess your situation. She should no longer be a factor in your life or decisions. Only you should be.

the1stwife is correct. Affairs are evil and have intent.

Butforthegrace is correct. Going forward, every birthday, every time you hear the other guy's first name etc...., you will trigger.

I am not sure how old you are or if kids are in the picture but you really deserved better than this

My XWW introduced her affair partner to me during the affair. Shook hands and all that. He was all smile... 25 years later, it still sticks to me, I find it incredibly hard to get over that sort of things. I suspect that part will be hard for you as well. Some people take pleasure in hurting and humiliating others, it’s a hard pill to swallow.

Do you have an idea of where you want to head with this? D, R, or too soon to tell?

Sorry you are here. A few observations:

1) An A is very painful and traumatic in it's own right. In the process we feel and experience a lot of things and often are not thinking from a calm and peaceful place.. I am not saying that your WW wasn't trying to humiliate you, but it's possible because your in pain your telling yourself some stories in your mind that have you spiraling in the pain. Again I'm not saying his may not have been her intent, but it may not be. For example, think of an A in the first place. You can read here so many cases where the WS give the BS so many reasons why they had an A. These are stories the WS has made up in their mind to justify their actions.

The best thing you can do is heal yourself.

2) The AP IS NOT THE ISSUE. Regardless of what he knows or doesn't know or does or doesn't do is NOT THE ISSUE. Giving him any of your head space is not helping you. The ISSUE is your WW. If she wasn't doing what she was doing the AP wouldn't exist.

3) Reading your post I suspect a big issue is that you hacked most of the A and it didn't come from your WW. How can there be trust in your relationship when you have a hack the details. I suspect as long as you remain in this the lack of trust will remain and you'll always be wondering in the back of your mind.

4)

I am proud and have high expectations of myself and those I let close.

I can relate to this one in a different way. I don't need to know a lot of people in this world, but the ones I do know are quality people. This reminds me of a quote that stuck with me during my failed R. Just because you made a mistake doesn't mean you need to keep making it. What I mean by this (speaking from experience) is that maybe one of the people you let close to you (your W) was a mistake. It's OK to make mistakes and still be proud.

Having said that, at the end of the day your well being and happiness is up to you. Not the people here. Not your WW.

I know it's a tough time and there can be some really tough days. It's part of the process. It becomes easier when you focus on your well being and being present in the moment.

I think I need to clarify my earlier post.

Affairs are a choice. I think we all agree.

But I think there are some Affairs / Cheaters that have an affair with an evil vendetta against the BS. My point about my H starting the Affair is that it was “easy” for him b/c he was already mad at me for something he did (which forced me to stand my ground on the issue - for once I might add).

So his cheating was (in my opinion) a way to get back at me.

However he did not inflict the bold and brazen behavior of this thread with ditching the family on birthdays, telling private intimate things about the BS to the AP (which werecthen broadcast) or having or allowing the AP to chat with the BS.

That is just mean spirited behavior and goes beyond an affair because in many cases the cheater does not choose to cause pain to the BS. But in some cases like this one I believe the cheater does.

You have nothing to be humiliated about. The truth is for 15 months you were not in the equation except as a babysitting wallet with legs. However you have much to be angry about

You might try the following. Tell her how unjust her behavior was. How you are wondering if she has. A concience and if she intended to hurt. If she comes back with something like “it’s always about you you” you can be sure the remorse is total bs

It never ceases to amaze how the deep remorse surfaces after getting caught. Like that’s ok cuz ya know your sorry.

I must disagree with the view that the WW didn't mean disrespect toward the BS with some of her actions. There is no way a reasonably competent person can not see where their actions is being humiliating. If she could not see, that having sex with another man on the BS's birthday; having the BS watch the children while sex with the AP is occurring; and telling the AP secrets and personal information about the BS, which only she was privileged to know; is not humiliating then she is too mentally incompetent to be left to her own devices. If she did this, without consciously knowing it would be humiliating to the BS, then there is something seriously wrong with her thought process. And even in the extreme off chance she didn't realize what she was doing was humiliating, if the BS felt humiliated then indeed she caused her BS humiliation. I do wish you well.

Brother, you wrote this...

I am proud and have high expectations of myself

So... firstly, we've all been humiliated by betrayal. And many of us have chosen to cope with some semblance of "staying together." I say this because what follows will appear hypocritical.

One betrayal is not equivalent to any other. There are measures of betrayal. Was it simply the cheater's selfishness? Or was there also intent to exact a heinous satisfaction at the expense of the Betrayed? What you've described rises to this level of twisted.

You wrote...

I am proud

I'd ask how proud you can be with the knowing what you now know. How do you now repair your sullied honor? IDK, maybe its just me.

And, by the way, good on ya for making the POSOM pay some already.

Sorry to hear about your situation feeld.

After reading about what you WW did I say don't reconcile; divorce her as soon as possible. However, you need time to assimilate what's happened and decide for yourself what you want to do.

I'd therefore recommend that you not commit to R or D until your head and heart catch up to what she's done. In the meantime however, I'd highly suggest you see a divorce lawyer to discuss your options and to have them draw up an iron-clad post-nuptial agreement. Have your wife sign it and have your lawyer file it. I'd recommend that you do this right now while your WW is feeling benevolent. If you wait, she'll not go along with it. You need to act now while she 'seems' remorseful and before her mood changes. Don't hesitate on this advice; just do it. You'll thank yourself later.

I'd also recommend that you read in the Healing Library on this site about the 180 and how to employ it for your own sanity. Removing the emotion from your situation will allow you to think more logically and clearly so you'll see things for what they are and make better long-term decisions.

I wish the best for you.

Feeldfool,

Sorry you're here. I don't know you or your wife, but a pretty common tactics for cheaters is to demonize the BS. She may not have been trying to humiliate you per se, but the WS has to tell themselves and usually the AP some pretty awful things about their spouse to maintain the facade that what they're doing isn't that bad. "he doesn't really love me", "we don't have enough sex", blah blah blah. Everyone is the hero of their own story and cognitive dissonance, like the WS seeing themselves as a good person when they're acting like a complete POS, can be a real bitch.

Hell, my WW was snooping through my phone because she was suspicious of a friendship i hear with a former coworker. I was catching hell fire the hall making me some cookies after i did her a favor, while WW was in month 18 of a same sex affair, hey 4th instace of cheating (that i know of).

I'm not saying its right by any means, just that cheaters lie, and the first person they lie to, before you or even the AP, is themselves.

Good luck and stay strong