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Your wife needs to see a specialized counselor for the trauma from her past. Her "Acting it out," is very misguided and unhealthy attempt to relive it with her in control.

If you do some research you will find this actually a fairly common thing and it requires specialized counselor with the proper training. Only then will she be able to feel remorse and earn back your trust.

It seems like it adds to the unfairness, but she a lot of things wrapped up in this A and not all of them are easy or quick fixes.

I still think you would be better off seeing an IC yourself. Working on yourself, for any reason, is never a wasted experience. You have no idea how much power you have right now to steer your life in any direction you wish.

That may or may not include reconciling with your W. Does she seem motivated to do what she needs to do.

This isn't a mistake (minimization). It was a choice that she made repeated, without your involvement, knowing full well it was wrong. She is not a victim in this. She is the perpetrator. It is important she understands that her "mistake" is big enough it may very well end your M. It has already ended, the M, as you knew it. Not saying you can't rebuild something better either. When I was at the point you were at I always scoffed at that. Let me tell you it happen for me, so I know it is possible.

ETA: Posters that already responded may be looking for new post versus updating your original one. Feel free to reply to your own post. We are not like reddit.

[This message edited by numb&dumb at 12:13 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday)]

I'm sorry to hear that you've got this shitstorm whirling through your life.

I've got a few questions that jump out at me. If others asked prior and I didn't notice, I apologize.

1. How is your 5 year old daughter dealing (and being handled) during this turmoil? Is she being treated well by you both?

Do you argue about it in front of her

2. You mentioned the following in conjunction with her friend living in the basement at the time:

she said she still resents me for when I was struggling with drinking and expressing my feelings

Do you mean that you were expressing your feelings to this friend of your WW's when you were drunk instead of expressing your feelings to your WW?

Regarding the rape fantasies she wrote out with POSOM - have you discussed this with her in relation to how she reacts to seeing rape scenes in movies? Is it possible that her visible shakiness is due to that being a turn-off for her that she felt ashamed to admit to you?

Either way, she and you need a different therapist ASAP. This therapist is a friggin' clown.

SaddestDad:

1) we are still living under the same roof while we figure out what we are going to do. I found out and confronted on July 5th. We have not talked about it in front of our daughter. She is either in the other room or somewhere else when we talk about it. If we hear her coming and one of us are upset, she is intercepted by the person not crying (mostly me). We have been trying not to talk about it at all during the day when daughter is awake. We want to keep it as normal as possible while she’s with us watching and listening. When she goes to bed is usually when we talk if we have something to say.

2) no, I rarely talked to the woman in our basement. She used our basement as an apartment. Most of the talking she did was with my wife. My wife was the one helping her the most get through her divorce. I was more or less the babysitter for the kids when she was melting down. Also, I had my drinking controlled by this time. The live-in divorcee happened around January of this year. I struggled with the booze around 2017.

Regarding her uneasiness with the word or act of rape, she never really wanted to talk to me about her rape. I always told her that if she ever wanted to I was there for her. And almost every single time she lost it because rape came up in a movie, I always said “you need to go talk to a professional about that”. She never did. She just went and got on pills. And then she has “emergency” pills she takes when she has a panic attack (not just about rape stuff). When she gets stressed out over common day to day stuff, or she’s upset at say her mom, or whatever the reason, when it gets to be too much - she’s susceptible to panic attacks. To answer your question, yes I did ask her about all the rapey talk with her fuck buddy. I was basically saying how could you talk like that with him after all these years of walking on ice around this word? All the panic attacks you had associated with the word and the act of rape? I just got an answer somewhere along the lines of “I don’t know, im fucked in the head right now”.

To kinda clear up my alcoholism situation.. It was directly tied to me not being able to express my feelings or vocalize them. I would just not talk about what was bothering me. I would avoid my feelings by drinking. A lot of this happened on the weekends. I work Monday through Friday. Friday after work was “man what a rough week, cracking a beer.” Before I knew it I had 9 or 10 and my wife was yelling at me. At which point I would blurt out everything under the sun that was bothering me and I probably sounded like an idiot at times because a) I was drunk and b) my feelings all came out at once and I didn’t make sense sometimes. My wife would then grill me or pick me apart and that’s when the arguing happened. My wife is usually drinking too, and she is a very aggressive talker, especially when she’s had a few. She’s vicious in a way that she’s always the one to start the name calling. ALWAYS. And that only throws gas on the fire. And then when she’s had enough of fighting or I make an excellent point and she has no other defense, she cries and tells me I hurt her. She’s very manipulative and her whole family knows it. She’s been doing it to them their whole lives.

So I went to the therapist to figure out why I was binge drinking on the weekends and getting in fights with my wife all the time. We found out it’s because I don’t express what I’m feeling when I’m having those feelings. So I’ve learned to express myself more. Now I don’t drink to get drunk. My wife eventually got prescribed medicine to help her with everyday stress and panic attacks. That combination seemed to have helped ALOT with the fighting as the fights were few and far between. Me being able to vocalize my feelings and thoughts translated into my work life and I was even promoted that year.

Thanks for clarifying, JA.

Since you went through the conversations with a fine-toothed comb, you know when the specific times were that they had those discussions. Immediately after those topics were discussed, was she unreasonably anxious? Was she popping more pills than usual during those times?

If not, then I stand by my view that the panic she showed was a reaction to her fear that you'd find out what she's into and potentially discover this (or a different) affair.

For now, definitely don't get back into drinking. Don't even crack 1 beer open on the weekend because it'll be way too easy to throw away the growth you've had to fight off alcohol. It's not worth it. Instead, vent here as much as you need to.

I can relate with at least some of what you're facing, as can so many others. I don't know your specific pain, but I know how immense it's been for me when I discovered that my WW was the opposite of the impression she gave to me in terms of sexuality. I know how brutally hurtful that the discovery is... keep focused on you. That's one piece of advice that I receive(d) here on SI constantly, and if I were smarter, I'd have heeded such sooner.

All that said, nobody is going to be able to definitively tell you what your outcome should or will be, and you should not limit yourself to only one outcome. Focus on you and see if and how she consistently proves her worthiness to you.

Don't force yourself to accept if you don't feel it's proof enough, but don't force yourself to demand more either.

I agree with everyone else here (who've all got way more wisdom than I) that she needs to see someone way more specialized in her past issues, not a counselor who's just having her pop pills and avoiding.

Yeah, eventually you'll need to work on communication as a couple, but I believe that she needs to first work on her own issues first, otherwise it'll become a very one-sided communication.

What’s her explanation for this....

They talked about me in disrespectful ways. They talked about coming up with plans of telling me and talking about leaving me. She was talking about how great it would be to wake up next to him everyday. She said she never wanted to get married and that having a daughter complicates things (as far as just leaving). She said she loved him.

Did he need to hear this kind of crap from her to keep an erection? I doubt it.

Under no circumstances should you attend another session with your wife's advocate. Do the 180 and focus on being the best person you can be for yourself and your daughter Part of that will no doubt include getting into counseling yourself.

If you do decide to attempt some sort of reconciliation, seek a marriage counselor who specializes in infidelity who is not already involved with your drama.

I totally agree with numb&dumb. I had no idea the depth of my WW's depression, suppressed fear, anger, anxiety, etc. until after dday. It's completely f'ed up realizing the person you have loved for years isn't who you think they are and that they were capable of hurting you so badly.

She does need help, real, qualified help to address her issues. It's your choice if you want to go through the process with her as your W.

As I and others mentioned, you need to verify the OM's GF for your message, I highly doubt she did. Your WW tipped him off, he was on alert, maybe even fed his GF the "crazy husband" line and intercepted your message to her.

[This message edited by Jameson1977 at 6:50 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday)]

Ramius: regarding all the disrespectful things she was saying about me to him and all those other emotional things, she keeps saying it was all a part of the fantasy. She said it’s what he wanted to hear. I obviously don’t believe her. She’s so fucked in the head guys. This is one of my favorite messages that is burned into my head:

“Can you come over while he’s fucking me and push him off me and make him watch how a real man fucks me?”

I’m dead. That’s pure evil...

Other than the child, I am not sure why you would want to reconcile with this woman.

Putting aside her betrayal, do you want to be with somebody so fucked in the head?

Go find someone who you can live a nice, normal, give and take life with, not someone who is always on the verge of a mental breakdown.

Leave her to her "Dom".

He'll toss her away like so much trash so fast she won't believe it.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 11:09 PM, July 23rd (Tuesday)]

Wow, that's cold. I dont have the words...

I consider your marriage null and void.

Get a lawyer

Find a good therapist.

Be a good dad.

One small step at a time.

“Can you come over while he’s fucking me and push him off me and make him watch how a real man fucks me?”

I’m dead. That’s pure evil...

Holy shit!

That is some next level instability. Run. As fast and as far as you can.

Her words and her actions before Dday are her true feelings, fantasy or not. She is in total CYA mode. I couldn't come back from those sayings. Words often are worse then the acts. Concentrate on yourself and your child. Let her to fend for herself while you figure out what you want to do.

Her words and her actions before Dday are her true feelings, fantasy or not. She is in total CYA mode. I couldn't come back from those sayings. Words often are worse then the acts. Concentrate on yourself and your child. Let her to fend for herself while you figure out what you want to do.

She is free to fantasize about getting hurt (rape) hurting the ones that loves her (real man comment).

You are free to live in reality, find a woman that is FAITHFUL, who RESPECTS you and LOVES you. They are easy to find, your WW is just not one of them.

So we all went to the fair last night. Trying to be a normal family for my daughter who loves the fair. We rode the Ferris wheel, a roller coaster. Played impossible carny games. Ate junk food. All of that fun stuff. I had an especially emotional roller coaster upon leaving. Seeing all the happy families out there. I was quiet on the drive home and my wife could see I was upset. When we put our daughter to bed, she says “mommy, daddy, this was the best day ever.” I told Sam why I was upset. That she had ruined our happy little family and that might be the last time we do something like that together. She lost it. And asked why are you saying that. I told her I’ve been thinking about divorce. I kinda went over with her how my general day-to-day has been. Not being able to eat, on the verge of throwing up literally every minute, when I do somehow fall asleep I’m having nightmares. How sometimes I can’t even look at her because All I can think about is the other guys hands all over her and how another dick has been in the mouth that she is saying that she loves only me with. This was the first time I mentioned a divorce. She knows it’s somewhat real now if this is what I’m thinking. We talked for hours last night. Well mostly her talking. How she “can’t live without me and how she would literally die.” Other stuff she said - “We can’t get divorced, we just can’t. I’m trying to work on my issues. You have to atleast try. Please. Please. I need you. For however long it takes for you to get over or through this. You can beat me up as long as it takes. I’m fucked up in the head right now. I know I fucked up so bad. I’m willing to do anything to prove my true love for only you.” I told her I’m still processing my thoughts and told her I wouldnt make a “rash” decision too soon.

She does not know I have a meeting set up with a lawyer on 8/1.

Brother, you have been dealt a really tough hand in those text messages.

Your wife is absolutely right...she is screwed in the head.

Here is the thing. Whether you decide to divorce or decide to try reconciliation, she needs to get better...if for nothing more than the sake of your child if you do split.

So when she begs, guilt trips, etc., I would give her something akin to this:

"Your words are a huge part of what got you into this situation. Should I believe them now, when just a few short months ago you wanted him to cuckold me? Only your actions matter now."

I'm sorry you are here.

You have to at least try.

No, you don't. She doesn't get to tell you what you need to do to heal. That "in good times and in bad" stuff is null and void once the faithful part has been breached.

Please. Please. I need you.

What she needs is irrelevant. She chose to go out and get what she thought she needed already.

You can beat me up as long as it takes.

This is a red flag. She sees it as you beating her up, not as you suffering... which you most certainly are.

I’m willing to do anything to prove my true love for only you.

Okay. For now, implement the 180 (link below) so you can get your head straight. Then WATCH what she does. Don't listen to what she SAYS (she's a stone-cold liar, remember?).

I should also include my opinion here too... I agree with some here who have posted that they couldn't come back from that, but, then again, I'm a "one-strike and you're out" kinda guy.

Implement the 180, it'll help you take care of yourself... meet with that lawyer, and let her do whatever she feels she needs to do (and WATCH).

https://www.survivinginfidelity.com/faq_bs.asp#FAQ11

About the sleeping...

It is crucial that you get some sleep.

Exercise as much as you can. It helps clear your mind and helps with the sleeping.

Please don't hesitate to see a doctor. Tell the doc what's going on. Maybe some sleep-aid is in order.. maybe some mood stabilizers.. I don't know. What I do know is there is no shame in it. If you were stabbed in the chest, you'd see a doctor, right? This is NO different.

I also wanted to add that putting Divorce on the table... like, actually starting the process (which you can stop at any time) will tell you much about her commitment to "do whatever it takes"... she'll either continue in her quest to help you heal heedless of the Divorce, or she'll turn away from you (and blame you for giving up).