SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

She is a serial cheater. She continues and expands her whorish behavior after being caught. IMO the marriage is done.

Attention is the coin of the realm with cheaters. It’s their lifeblood. When it hits the fan she may want attention and engagement from you. So don’t give it to her.

Have her served. No warning. To confrontation.

At the same time expose her to family so she can’t turn them against you. Just tell them the basics and that you have proof.

Tell her you are aware of both affairs. And that you are only going to discuss day to day matters that involve the kids. All divorce talk is to be handled thru the lawyers.

Disengage. Distance your self emotionally.

You may want to read Spaceghost’s thread. It is linked in his profile.

[This message edited by ramius at 2:50 AM, September 9th (Monday)]

I hate to say it, I know you said you love her, but from experience this will continue to happen over and over again. It's your call, 1 thing I wish I had done would be to get a post nup to make the break easier when I've finally had enough.

You say your “fantasy” outcome is for her to come to her senses, find out why she did this, and become a safe partner. Please read “How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair” by Linda MacDonald. It is a short, pithy, template for what a WS has to do to rebuild a marriage. You read it, mark it up where it resonates most for you.

Now, you need to think about how to set the stage so the chances of her “waking up” are maximized. Once she starts lying/minimizing she will feel dug-in, and your pain will be enhanced. So that means shock and a little time are needed.

Does the divorce petition detail her infidelity? I would suggest that it simply assert infidelity without details. This is because you will need to assess post-confrontation whether she is being honest with you. Sit her down, hand her the papers, tell her “I know you never ended your affair.” Do not tell her how you know. Do not tell her you know about OM2. If she protests, just say “But I know. And so do you.”

Then give her the book. Tell her to read it and come talk with you the next day. Give her time to digest it and really panic. When she comes to you to talk say: “this is the most important conversation of our life together. You know from the book that I expect complete honesty. No lies, no omissions. Tell me everything now. I will know if you lie, and if you do I am going straight to the courthouse to file those papers.” Then be quiet and let her talk. Have a VAR on you.

If she does not tell you everything, including about OM2, then you know D is your only option. If she confesses all, then that is just Step 1 toward reconciliation, but there may be a chance with lots of IC and work by her. The book will be her guide. And yours.

You may want to hold off disclosing to everyone until after you have these two discussions. If she lies and you file then disclose as you need to. If she comes clean and goes into IC and takes the steps needed to rebuild, you can hold off and wait and see.

In short, plan the confrontation in a way that maximizes the chance she will “wake up” to what she has done and realize she is about to lose you. Make her understand that her complete honesty is now necessary. That is why the divorce papers should not have details or say anything about OM2. You need a benchmark that she does not know you know, in order to assess her honesty in confessing all.

I am so sorry you are here with us. The chances of R are probably small, but in my opinion how you confront can change the odds a bit.

[This message edited by Odonna at 4:00 AM, September 9th (Monday)]

Sorry you're here.

Honestly, from what you've written and how you've presented yourself, it seems more like she's just escaping to a fantasy because she's bored? Tired of her role? Needs a rush?

It's likely she'll try to blame you as a self preservation tactic but seriously, this really looks like its all on her. Don't be hard on yourself, it has nothing to do with what you did or didn't do.

I would make sure that you don't reveal how you found any info. In fact, don't even risk her guessing how by thinking about what you found. Maybe use the camera as a red herring? Have her think you caught her on cam, and then when she panics and begs, see how she reacta through the apps. That'll be a very clear indicator regarding whether or not she's sincere with whatever she says.

Alternatively don't confront, just file for D. Being served will be the "confrontation" and she'll immediately know why.

Also take control of the narrative. Someone else will chime in, but she'll almost assuredly start bad mouthing you to her family to justify her actions. If expose her before she does that, it might help you steer the story in the truthful direction if that is at all important.

Good luck... tough road ahead. Stay strong

[This message edited by Ganondorf at 6:21 AM, September 9th (Monday)]

Thank you everyone for coming here to share your thoughts and offer advice. I’m grateful so many strangers are willing to offer support (or even read my incredibly long post). At the same time it’s sad what an active community and how many similar posts are here.

I took advice from several of you and cancelled my work trip. She was surprised, then gave some weird reason why she had to leave for two hours mid-day. I’m still acting like I don’t know about the affair(s) so I agreed to watch the kids while she was out like I always do. And saw her GPS location not where she said she was going, instead she walked around through the parks and waterfront for an hour. Later saw guy#1 who is visiting for the week post a picture of that exact location online.

I also think many of you have some good thoughts on exposure. I didn’t want to expose her to close family in fear of me looking excessively vengeful/punitive, on top of the awkwardness of having others know about personal relationship issues, but you’re right that secrecy is what helps an affair thrive and feel fun, exposure will kill it. Like Exposing mold and bacteria to fresh air and bright sunlight... going to rethink my approach on how to do this.

IXXI, exposure allows you to take control. If you hide the A, your WW will tell people any number of lies to protect herself and likely make you look bad. Exposure shouldn't be about vengeance. It is the truth. Your WW will probably deny it and try to make you look angry and vengeful, but she is a liar, and you know it.

Others will have to make their own decision on what they believe. My only suggestion to you is that you do it in a calm manor and not in a way to embarass or cause harm. Meaning, don't post stuff on Facebook for everyone to see. You tell the people that you want to know.

I took advice from several of you and cancelled my work trip. She was surprised, then gave some weird reason why she had to leave for two hours mid-day. I’m still acting like I don’t know about the affair(s) so I agreed to watch the kids while she was out like I always do. And saw her GPS location not where she said she was going, instead she walked around through the parks and waterfront for an hour. Later saw guy#1 who is visiting for the week post a picture of that exact location online

.

The OM is still in town and she will meet him at every chance they get, hire a PI and have them followed or do it yourself, have someone watch the kids for you, watch from a distance, take videos and then confront, you have enough and should put an end to this sham of a M.

I also think many of you have some good thoughts on exposure. I didn’t want to expose her to close family in fear of me looking excessively vengeful/punitive, on top of the awkwardness of having others know about personal relationship issues, but you’re right that secrecy is what helps an affair thrive and feel fun, exposure will kill it. Like Exposing mold and bacteria to fresh air and bright sunlight... going to rethink my approach on how to do this.

If you think EXPOSING the TRUTH to family members who will want an explanation anyway if you file for D is "excessively vengeful and punitive" after your WW betrayed you and has been exposing you to potentially serious STDs my friend you're in for a rude awakening, this is not the time to get soft and instead you need to man up and confront her, file for D and EXPOSE her As without warning with ALL family and close friends, otherwise she may try to blame you and rewrite M history and make you look as the bad guy, your NOT, she's the one who destroyed the M by CHEATING on you more than once.

You need to concentrate on your health. I am a broken record when it comes to the damage long term stress has on the body. Figure out the time you are going to confront her and do it. Be prepared for anger, lying, crying etc. You need to stop being a victim and become a warrior. Not with fists but with resolve. Make a plan for YOUR future and stick to it. Bossy me is just trying to get you to healthy place so your kids have a dad who can be 100% for them

Good luck!!!

One of the important tasks when dealing with infidelity is making it real. Removing all the fantasy, secrecy, romanticism and drama from the situation. It’s no longer “I’m making love to the White Knight” but plain and simple “It’s sex with another man at the Holiday-Inn”.

Unfortunately, we sometimes sink into our own fantasy. A semi-revenge fantasy where we act decisively in a fore-arranged plan. Sort of like a fight sequence in a Jackie Chan movie. What we sometimes forget is that those sequences are choreographed and only work if everyone responds as expected… Ever punched someone? Well… as a rule they don’t do back flips, your fist hurts, and they even punch back…

Imagine your wife came home and pulled out divorce papers. Even if they were drafted by an attorney in the correct form would YOU sign them there and then? Imagine she demanded you leave the home. Would you do so without a thought? If she demanded you forfeit what is legally your right would you just pick up the pen and sign?

Why do you expect her to respond the ways YOU want her to?

She can refuse to sign any divorce paper she wants to. It won’t prevent a divorce, but there is too much in your plan that is dependent on HER reacting the way YOU want her to do.

I think many of these “have her served and then lay down the lines and throw her out and have her sign a post-nup” suggestions and plans are about as realistic as my friend Jackie Chan fighting.

Are YOU convinced she is cheating?

That is the ONLY question IMHO. The ONLY relevant question.

If you are convinced, then there is really only one more thing to check: Does infidelity factor in any way for form in divorce in your state/country? (Chances are it doesn’t. I think it impacts D in 3-4 states and even then, only in a miniscule way.)

If it doesn’t impact D then the secondary question: Can I move funds, debts or assets in such a way they will be to my advantage in divorce? Chances are that is not an issue either.

You are 100% convinced she’s cheating and based on what you share I agree.

So why wait?

Why does knowing she was at the park today with OM make confrontation easier or more powerful?

The way I see it then what you are dealing with is comparable to waking up in a burning house. You would never wait for a couple of hours to ensure you got all of the fire department or the best unit from next town. You wouldn’t allow the fire to build up. You wouldn’t worry about waking the neighbors by shouting “FIRE!”. You wouldn’t hope to negotiate with the flames, settle for them being only in the kitchen. You wouldn’t call a contractor before you called the FD, and you wouldn’t ask the firemen to take off their boots to prevent damage to the carpets. You wouldn’t let your kids sleep to ensure they got their 8 hours…

I would hope you called for help, woke everyone up and got them to safety and then started either extinguishing the fire and/or saving valuables. Screaming to the neighbors and not worrying about the damage until the flames are out. Then and only then can you evaluate if rebuilding is possible.

THAT is where I want to see you.

You can’t control how your wife (the fire) reacts, but we KNOW there are certain actions that increase your chances of extinguishing it before it completely burns the foundations of your home.

Those actions start with a clear message:

“Wife. I KNOW you are cheating. No – I don’t have to prove it to you although I could. I have more than enough evidence.

I have had an epiphany. I have realized that although I still love you and would want this marriage to work then a divorce isn’t the worst outcome. The absolute 100% worst outcome isn’t losing you but rather SHARING you. I refuse to share.

You are totally 100% free to date OM, be with OM, go live with OM or whatever you choose to do.

But not as my wife.

Until and unless you clearly and vocally tell me in a 100% unequivocal way that you want this marriage and me as your husband AND are willing to accept and abide by some ground-rules required while we try to rebuild trust I am simply assuming you have chosen OM and your affair.

I have therefore started the work required to divorce.

There are laws and regulations that ensure divorce is as fair as possible. I will simply work at ensuring I am fairly treated and will not strive to make this any harder than it needs to be.

Our kids will be OK. We will probably not be friends after this, but I hope we can be good co-parents.”

And then you go make a sandwich or watch TV or whatever. Don’t spend any time arguing or convincing her that she’s cheating. Just move on.

If she says they are only friends:

“No. I have more than enough proof that this is more. Your lies only convince me that the only solution is divorce. I’m sorry about that and wish you could show me the respect of being truthful. It’s not as if you have anything to lose because as long as I know you are lying divorce is the ONLY option I have.”

If she says she had to have the affair because you are never home:

“I’m sorry you feel that way. I don’t agree with that being a valid reason, but if we were reconciling then this is something we could address in MC. But since you are choosing your affair there isn’t any need to go there.”

And then you go hum a tune or twiddle your fingers. Not a care in the world because YOU are a man on a mission. You have a destination.

She tells you she had to have the affair because you have BO, a pot-tummy, don’t listen… no matter what. It’s the same reply as above.

She asks about the divorce or divorce details:

“I am too emotionally attached to this marriage to ensure I am handled fairly in divorce. That’s why I have placed the job of divorce in the hand of my attorney. Please address questions to him, preferably through your attorney.”

And you keep on the dialogue with the attorney. You ask him what info he needs, and you gather it. You start the small repairs you can make to maximize the value of the home. You detail the vehicles that need to be sold… You simply soldier on like a determined little chipmunk preparing for winter.

Regarding telling others…

Well… Simply tell all stakeholders the truth. You are divorcing because your wife is having an affair. If you want to you can add that it’s not the first affair. You simply tell them you don’t share and as long as the affair is ongoing and you don’t have assurances it’s over you have no option but to push for the Big D.

Frankly it doesn’t matter a damn what she tells her parents or what others say. It’s not as if points are given and you get a trophy after a year or so. If this ends in D chances are you and in-laws wont be seeing each other so much. What they, or Edna her aunt or her best friend Nancy think about you is a total non-issue.

Some fear exposure makes R harder. Actually it’s INFIDELITY that makes R harder, and exposure is possibly the best infidelity-killer around. Exposure makes R possible.

Finally – the requirements you need IF she wants to be offered reconciliation.

Total 100% accountable transparency.

The total 100% truth of what has been going on.

Total no contact and direct information if OM contacts her.

A commitment to IC to get to the bottom of why she thought having an affair was OK.

These are the basics. You might want to add some more. But remember – they all have to be attainable and accountable.

Confront her NOW. No need at all to wait.

[This message edited by Bigger at 6:55 PM, September 10th (Tuesday)]

Keep in mind you DON'T have to offer R even if she becomes the poster child of the remorseful WW of the year wanting to restore the M she destroyed, she already had her chance the first time (not that she was owed one to begin with) and she blew it, cut your losses now and get out of infidelity, confront NOW, file for D and EXPOSE without warning, you will take some control back, she's been on the driver's seat for way too long, time to dump this unremorseful serial cheater who's been playing russian roulette with your health by exposing you to STDs, now if YOU (not her) after this second betrayal (that you know of) still want to offer the gift of R, it needs to be on your terms, but again, we don't even know if that's what she wants at this point, she's still in an active A and as long as she remains in it or doesn't show true remorse (not just regret for being caught yet again) your ONLY common sense option is to D, confront NOW and get the ball rolling to get out of infidelity.

Your WW currently thinks she is the master of the universe, fully in control of what she knows and what you know. If you want to pull the rug out from under her, just file for D and tell her nothing more. She'll be desperate for any intel at all, that she can use to regain some semblance of control over the narrative. The more you give her (I know this, you hurt me like that) the more she'll be able to get her bearings and work on her lie.

Give her as little as humanly possible, given your emotional state. YOU keep control, and keep her guessing.

If and when she realizes that lying and bullshit are a losing hand and honesty is a winning, then you can consider something other than flat-out D.

Sending strength!

Without exposure her fantasy is still intact. Exposure shatters that fantasy.

Exposure only makes you look any particular way.

You can be an ass.

You can be neutral.

It's all in the delivery. But exposure could be your best friend depending on the circumstances.

Bigger's post is fantastic, please read it carefully.

This is why i suggested cancelling your trip...,which it is great you did. Expose this now!

If there is any chance,you want to offer R, exposing now will help. Having her sneak around with posom all week helps no one but posom. And he is the very last person you want to help.

Hi IXXI

How are you doing? How did the confrontation go?

You seemed to have your ducks in a row as far as prepping and at least jacking up her plans a bit.

The only thing I will add is ABSOLUTELY DO NOT tell her everything you know or divulge your sources.

How you doing, IXXI? Did you give her the separation agreement? Please check in with us so we know how you are doing.

Yo ! Just file for the divorce, this woman doesn’t respect or appreciate your sanity! She is a certified and unrepentant cheat.You deserve a better and committed woman.

Your initial post says you believe there is 1% chance this will resolve in R.

You correctly cancelled your trip and her response was to lie and go meet OM.

I’m just curious why you are absorbing this pain when she is carrying on right in front of you

What are you waiting for ?

Maybe it’s the attorney . Otherwise you are absorbing more mental punishment than you need to

You will make the decision on D or R but neither will happen without the confrontation

I agree with Beyondrage above

Same here - BeyondRage has it right.