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There is never a good reason for violence. If after finding out what she did, I beat her, I would be put in jail, and justifiably so. There is no room for this in our society.

In reality, what happened to my EX was probably worse. She has to live with knowing she caused the destruction of our marriage, lost the respect (but not the love) of my daughters, and many of her friends ran for the hills. Those are the consequences of her actions

She probably would trade the caning, but it still doesn’t make it right

I hate these kind of questions because after DDay I think I would have agreed to almost anything if I thought it would help my BH or help us and I know my head was definitely not in the right place.

only if a WS would agree as atonement.

How would this provide atonement? It’s just a beating.

It's draconian, but at least the world knows what you are. And you would undeniably be held accountable and own your actions.

It sounds like besides physically harming your WS, the goal is public shaming. Like the GoT episode. Maybe we should try that and have WS’s walk naked through throngs of people throwing rotten vegetables and shouting “Shame! Shame!”

I don’t understand how this holds anyone accountable or provides any kind of atonement. It’s just hurting someone who hurt you.

Real accountability and owning your actions comes through changing your behavior and the things you do after DDay. This is an easy fix TBH and does nothing in terms of a WS’s growth and working on themselves.

[This message edited by MrsWalloped at 7:32 AM, November 20th (Wednesday)]

Oh hell to the no.

I hope no WS would subject themselves to being beaten, publicly or otherwise, to "atone" for their sins.

Look. It's a broken, fucked up person who chooses an affair in response to whatever shitty feelings they have about themselves or their life situation. Submitting to a beating does not make them less broken and fucked up. In fact I think it pushes them toward being more broken and fucked up. Is there any BS that truly wants that in exchange for 5 minutes of exultation in the humiliation and pain of their WS? The goal of reconciliation is for both parties to heal and to heal the marriage.

BS's anger and hatred toward AP was so, so intense. He has fantasized about killing him. During one of those down-the-rabbit-hole talks in the early days after D-day he asked if I would be willing to help him ambush AP as a show of loyalty to him. I said no, I wouldn't. He said it was because I didn't want AP getting hurt, that I was putting AP's welfare over his. It is true that I didn't want AP (or anyone really) to die. The more important piece to me though was that I didn't want BS to be a murderer. I didn't want to be an accessory to a murder. It would have destroyed any chance for reconciliation for me, even if neither of us went to prison. This is perhaps more extreme than the caning example but the point is that destructive choices piled on top of previous destructive choices does not lead to healing; just more destruction.

Now. If he wanted me to make a public speech, like at Toastmasters or a TED talk about adultery and how harmful it is in which it was clear that I had been unfaithful? Yes. I'd do that. In a heartbeat. That is something of which some good could actually come. Staged canings while people sit around and cheer and eat popcorn just moves us into barbarism. Not the world I'm willing to help bring forth.

$0.02 from this EvolvingSoul

I wouldn’t want WH to be caned but I think WS don’t understand sometimes it IS about wanting them to hurt as much as the BS. Nothing can make the WS feel that pain. I myself couldn’t comprehend the level of pain I would feel but I also couldn’t comprehend my husband ever cheating on me and never would cheat on him. The fact that a WS can and does cheat in my opinion makes them forever incapable of feeling that level of pain. They may be able to see the BS is caused a great deal of pain but cannot ever feel that amount of pain. I just don’t believe someone who could willingly inflict it can have the amount of empathy it required. Also one reason I think an RA is pointless.

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[This message edited by Justsomelady at 11:45 AM, January 4th (Saturday)]

Thanksgiving - I don't disagree with you. And I know people cringe when the idea of WS pain is introduced, I know it's not the same. The BS is the victim, the WS the perpetrator.

But, I will say here that my affair is a result of past trauma that was painful at the time and has been painful to digest and try and work through. And, the pain I have experienced over the last 28 months has been the worst pain of my life. I don't know that all WS go through that, some simply still don't care enough to really roll around in it. But for me, the pain has been an immersive experience, facing my demons and taking off a very thick mask and truly seeing that I was not the good person that I always thought I was, that I had propped myself up with all this external stuff far before I had an affair. That I was actually an empty vessel and a bottomless void that had been surprisingly functional in life.

Trying to fill that vessel and void with meaningful new ways of being and love after destroying my husband and my life...well, it may not be what a BS goes through but I still wouldn't wish it on anyone. I don't know your story, so it could be that's not been your experience with your WS, so maybe you haven't seen that a WS pain can be profound and long lasting. What I did takes a level of self loathing to get to that I don't think a BS can ever fully understand either.

My own husband says I feel worse about my EA than he does at this point.

Yes, that is what my husband says as well. It's not often a sentiment that I see around here, but he definitely feels that way.

[This message edited by hikingout at 8:40 AM, November 20th (Wednesday)]

I think most BS and WS here understand that violence is not an acceptable solution to anything, even when state-sanctioned or implemented.

If you remove the flogging and still include the public humiliation, I think this would be a much trickier conversation for most of us. Also remember that most WS here are fairly (or very) remorseful, and that group probably needs this kind of punishment least.

I DO think there is value in the fact that this forces more exposure than would otherwise happen. Some of the most insidious types of A's are the ones that stay hidden, or ones where a BS has done mild exposure but the WS is protected from some of the damage done. Sometimes it really does take a group of people calling out and naming horrific behavior for someone to "get it."

Of course that doesn't require flogging. And EvolvingSoul is right, for many WS this would be detrimental. Shame begets more bad behavior, for many.

No freaking way. What are we in, the Dark Ages?

Listen, I have the same reasons many other BHs have for feeling anger, hurt and betrayal from a wayward spouse. I would never in a million years consider something this draconian. How does seeing my wife struck in public make me in any way "healed" or a "better person"?? How could I look our children in the eyes again? I would like to think that we, as a people, have evolved beyond this need to inflict more hurt in response to hurt.

The first man to raise is fist in anger is the first man to run out of ideas.

Believe me, it's a constant struggle to contain the anger and hurt. I'm neither a wimp nor a pushover, but I'm not seeing how ADDING violence makes the world better.

If my H wanted to see me publicly whipped for cheating, I would see that as evidence that I had irretrievably broken the marriage. I would be devastated that I had done something that turned him into that person. But no, I would not voluntarily submit to it. I would not teach my children that you should atone for terrible decisions by allowing someone to beat you while others look on and cheer. I've set a bad example for them once already, and once is more than enough.

BSR, what example is your BH setting for your children by trying to build a new marriage with someone that publicly humiliated him? If you knowingly choose to do something wrong, own it and pay the fucking price.

To me, this is another example of how our society views personal responsibility. The question should be how many whacks the BS and OBS get to take on the cheaters.

FWIW, I’m a MH so I would have to take a whipping too.

He's setting the example that he can choose to rebuild or choose to walk away. That he has no moral obligation to answer to anyone else for which option he selects. That he stays because he believes I am remorseful and ready to do the work to be a safe partner, to improve myself, and to support his healing. That we can create and model a loving, respectful, honest relationship going forward, where both partners value each other and feel valued.

If you think beating me sets a better example than that, then we just disagree.

Realizing it is a cultural thing, I have no issues.

I see, in our culture, as no different that shaming a betrayer on FB....

They use a cane, we use words to accomplish the same thing.

As a flip side to this I would rather take a canning that go through with being a BS again. The healing would be so much shorter.

I don't think this would help anything. Further the WS would get to avoid doing the real work of atonement and amendments. Never fix the character deficit and learn to live life without their accumulated baggage. You know what the threat of a punishment did to most WS on this site before their A ? Nothing. They either never planned on getting caught or deluded themselves with heavy mental gymnastics and choose to cheat anyway.

A WS that is truly remorseful and is enlightened enough to want that redemption will be punished plenty. Knowing that the A is in their past will haunt them at the times when they least expect it.

In my case my W, Her AP, and some therapists are the only ones that know of her A so she never got the public humiliation part. Why? Because that would humiliate me too. Further not everyone is enlightened enough to not blame the BS in some capacity for their WS actions. We see "bad," therapist and "experts" do that all of the time. Why wouldn't some of the average person on the street do the same ? No thanks. I got plenty to be embarrassed about already.

I think the fact that the idea of a "choice" itself is trigger inducing to most BS. BS are not given a choice to be cheated on. That is why the WS needs to own in every way, shape, or form the A and it's consequences. Not just say they do. Apologize. Ask what they can do to help. Prove that they do love their BS despite their actions saying the opposite. That isn't easy.

I break from traditional views on grace. I made my W earn my grace. I've said things to her that make me cringe today. The fact remains for the rest of our lives no matter what I may do nothing will come close to the damage her A has brought to the M. Short of me having an A myself.

I don't beat her over the head with that because I don't have to. She recognizes that and likely once she calms down will forgive me for whatever I did do. If I don't hold grudges for the A then how can she hold grudges for anything I've done or will do in the future ? If she did our M would end because I won't tolerate any less. The M continues because I make that choice everyday. If I stopped making that choice then the M will end without my W having a say in it.

As far teaching my children (who don't know about the A) we model a real relationship that has ups and downs. Where we both can learn to forgive one another. I am not saying that reparations don't have to be made, but being forgiving is the key to any happy relationship.

Holding grudges hurts yourself more than it hurts who ever you are holding that grudge against. It allows them to live rent free in your head space. Why would I live like that ? I have learned to let of the past and OMG does it feel awesome !

T/J:

thatbpguy - OMG - it's weird you showed up, I literally thought about you yesterday! I was thinking about a past post and something you called me out on and then I thought, it's a shame he left!

Okay, sorry, I always like it when I see people come back. Take care.

End of TJ

I am not saying I agree that caning is a good idea. In the very early days, I certainly thought of harming my WH. I personally don't think that caning would accomplish much.

But some of the WS perspectives get my goat.

MANY MANY MANY BS describe being betrayed as the WORST pain ever. Many say it's worse than being raped. Worse than burying a child. Worse than fighting in a combat zone.

So - for the WS who say it wouldn't be "fair"? Please ask yourself if it would be "fair" to cane a rapist? Or the drunk driver that killed your child?

In the weeks/months immediately after dday I had the suicide hotline on speed dial, and for some periods I visited the website every day. I put lit cigarettes out on my own body, willing to do ANYTHING to ease the pain - even for a moment (and I can say that I never understood cutting or other self harm until I became a BS. Unfortunately, I REALLY understand it now). What if my WH being caned would have eased my pain - even if only for the time he was being caned? What if it would have prevented me from burning permanent holes into my skin? (and again, I don't think it would ease my pain today - but in the early days it may have helped - not the same as "heal" )

And as a BS - I would have FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR rather been caned than been made a BS. It would have been kinder for my WH to have simply beat the shit out of me than to have had an A.

ETA:

Real accountability and owning your actions comes through changing your behavior and the things you do after DDay.

And what of those who never do this? What of the BS whose WS never "get it"? Never do "the work"? Never "own their actions" and never change their behavior? Most of those WS are never on SI.... but they sure as shit are out there.

[This message edited by gmc94 at 1:08 PM, November 20th, 2019 (Wednesday)]

Look, if caning somehow made everything better, I’m sure most BS’s and WS’s would jump on that.

But the reality is if my EX got caned, she still would be the person who broke my heart, except now she would have welts on her back, and I would have the addition mind movies of her screaming in pain, to the visions of her screwing her AP. Who needs that?

h/o- Hello. Not sure how long, or how much I will be around. I had a surgery and have a lot of time recovering. Soooo, I thought I would swing by and see how things are.

The Stop Sign has been added to this thread. Betrayed spouses are no longer able to post on this thread.

And you would undeniably be held accountable and own your actions.

I disagree- This isn’t really accountability. If the process consisted of an adulterer voluntarily making some public redress of his crime to the person he wronged, then I’d say that looks effective. But an arbitrary physical punishment seems like saying that vows are what keep a partner honest, as opposed to the vows being an expression of the already present intent.

We have been talking a lot about vengeance recently and I think we need to once again acknowledge that there are 2 schools of thought- That a cheater deserves punishment, or that a cheater deserves grace and perhaps forgiveness. If it’s punishment then so be it, but I wouldn’t expect a lot of discussion on reconciliation.

There’s a lot of nuance in discussing punishment, but I just don’t think punishment and partnership are compatible. I absolutely acknowledge that I caused pain to my family, but what’s exceedingly difficult to grasp unless you’ve been there, is that I legitimately did not consider that consequence. That doesn’t excuse the actions but it informs my intent, or lack thereof. I further acknowledge that doesn’t absolve me of the betrayal, because I could have taken any number of steps to change the facets of myself that could be blind to those consequences BEFORE crossing such a line.

But I did not set out to inflict pain, and I see a difference there. I apologize if that triggers but it’s how a selfish mind works, and it’s what I’ve worked hard to change- To recognize those impacts and more deeply see the value in others, enough to do what’s right as opposed to what’s convenient.

[This message edited by JBWD at 4:52 PM, November 20th (Wednesday)]

what example is your BH setting for your children by trying to build a new marriage with someone that publicly humiliated him?

Grace. It sets an example of grace. Grace is extending a benefit which is not deserved by the recipient. You may recognize it as an underpinning of at least one major world religion. It is why WS here frequently refer to the opportunity to try reconciliation as a gift. It is why I still, after over nine years, thank my BS often for being in my life an giving me the chance to get my shit together.

If you knowingly choose to do something wrong, own it and pay the fucking price.

I have a hard time believing that if said beating were administered the BS would see things as all done and cleared up, price paid, let's move on.

Can a mid remove the stop sign, I want others to respond.