SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I think from personal experience we recommend that. My biggest regret is not leaving after his first A, before DD was born. I stayed, he cheated again. I should have left the first time, but I think I was afraid to be alone. Now, I absolutely LOVE being alone!

are you truly bothered by members posting those things?

I was bothered by statements made earlier in this thread that said that posts that I felt were offered with good intentions were deemed inconsiderate and not "interested in how it's landing so far". Their complaint in my eyes was about certain people (one being me) that are just so smug and stupid that they don't even realize that, when they think they're being Mr. Helpful, they're actually being hurtful, flawed, unhelpful and showing a total lack of empathy and reflection.

So, BS's are complaining that statements that other BS's think are helpful or at least harmless are actually hurtful. Got it.

So I got to thinking, what statements have I seen people make on SI that they think are helpful or at least harmless but that I sometimes interpret as being hurtful? Answer: Statements by BS's about why they stayed.

Why are these statements hurtful? Answer: It makes me think "What's wrong with me? Other BS's have stayed because of this, this, and this, and they are now R and happy. I feel NONE of these things. Fuck it, I guess I'm one of those BS's that is just destined for D."

Based on this, I think it's perfectly reasonable for a BS who suspects they're destined for D, and wonders why other BS' stayed, to Google the following:

"surviving infidelity" "stayed because"

I did this and it yielded the list of "I stayed" reasons that I mentioned.

The following is a list of hypothetical conversations where the "I stayed" reasons that I mentioned might be used:

BS who's leaning D: "I don't want to hurt my children but I don't think I can stay with my WS another second!"BS in R: "I stayed BECAUSE I love my spouse and because our relationship was worth saving"

BS who's leaning D: "I don't want to hurt my children but I don't think I can stay with my WS another second!"BS in R: "I stayed because I wanted to be able to tell my children that I tried."

BS who's leaning D: "I don't want to hurt my children but I don't think I can stay with my WS another second!"BS in R: "I stayed because it was the lesser of two evils"

BS who's leaning D: "I don't want to hurt my children but I don't think I can stay with my WS another second!"BS in R: "I stayed because he deserved another chance."

BS who's leaning D: "I don't want to hurt my children but I don't think I can stay with my WS another second!"BS in R: "I stayed because I gave up my career and had a baby"

BS who's leaning D: "I don't want to hurt my children but I don't think I can stay with my WS another second!"BS in R: "I stayed because I was terrified I would be alone "

BS who's leaning D: "I don't want to hurt my children but I don't think I can stay with my WS another second!"BS in R: "I stayed because I realized that I had tried to reconcile alone before"

Are you saying that it's completely out of the realm of possibility that a BS who's leaning D might feel like shit after one of these conversations and think there's something wrong with them? Not one? Ever?

Geez, talk about people not having empathy for others...

Thanks Lowlow for sharing your story. I wanted to emphasize this passage in particular.

Ultimately I would ask everyone on SI to consider that some relationships are worth persevering and preserving even when kids are not involved. Cutting and running is not the decision that is always best for every relationship. Please be respectful of that choice as we childless couples are respectful of your decision to stay even if it is just for the kids

I think your story is helpful in illustrating that relationships, with or without children, can be complex and mature and important/valuable to those involved in them. One of the things that I think contributes to the feelings of dismissal that many childless BS have expressed here is that some people are equating childless relationships with young or immature relationships. Perhaps that is intentional (Sewardak specifically mentions that she believes the length of her relationship was the reason she was able to successfully R), but it doesn't hold true for everyone.

In some cases, what I fear is happening (or is at least coming off this way) is that when people hear that a BS is childless, they assume that the relationship itself is somehow less important or valuable than another relationship might be and THAT is why it is so easy/obvious to say "RUN". You can imagine why such advice may come across to a deeply injured childless BS as being dismissive, patronizing and unhelpful. It's also confusing when that same injured BS reads different advice provided to a BS with children who appears to have a much less remorseful WS.

To be clear, I'm not saying this is what is actually happening in most cases and I will say again that I truly believe that most posters truly have the most noble of intentions. I should also go ahead and point out that I am absolutely aware that this hits a nerve for me because of my specific circumstances. So yeah, take it for what its worth.

Cheatstroke - I have debated whether or not to respond to your recent posts. I would normally be disinclined to do so because (a) I believe they are a threadjack and (b) I, like HoldingTogether, question whether you are making your points in good faith or whether you are employing the tu quoque logical fallacy in order to derail the conversation and to avoid addressing the substance of the original argument. If it is the former, I encourage you to start your own thread to discuss those issues. If it is the latter, well then and I apologize to everyone else for the rest of this post.

Here is the thing though,

I stayed BECAUSE I love my spouse and because our relationship was worth saving

This was a quote from a post I made in a thread entitled, "How many of you stayed but don't really love their spouse". I think context matters. I don't know where the rest of the quotes come from but if they've been picked in the manner that this one was, I don't think that's really a fair comparison.

That said, I assure you I didn't write it in an attempt to present myself as more noble than a BS who chooses divorce. I actually wrote something similar in my first post on this thread. I wrote this in the context of trying to reconcile my desire to R with my pre-A ideal of believing that cheating should be a dealbreaker. I mentioned my struggle to maintain self-respect while deciding to R. I would hope that makes it evident that I respect your decision to divorce.

Cheatstroke - We cross-posted. Looks like I have my answer. It would appear that, as Holding Together put it, you are manufacturing feigned outrage to make a rhetorical point.

Iris, I gave this a ton of thought last night. Did not expect the thread would get so long, so i apologize if someone has already stated it this way. I am in R, 30 years married, two kids. D-day was over four years ago.

Why do many recommend D when you do not have children???

Because most of us can agree that most waywards are fundamentally broken people who do not bring 100% of themselves to the marriage. Because they do not have 100% to offer. And whether they do the work to get whole is a crap shoot.

So when you find that out early, you have fewer people to consider when you decide to formally end your family.(the wayward already ended it when they strayed)

If I had known she cheated before I had kids, I would have walked away, and I love my wife fiercely.

Iris, thank you so much for posting this topic. I am a new member, and a lot of the early posts in this thread were a hard read, they lacked so much empathy and encouragement...but my situation is so similar to yours, the few posters that have offered insight have made it worth it.

I will look for your posts in the future, I hope that you continue to post here and we have success in our attempts to R.

[This message edited by 37wallflower73 at 11:13 AM, June 19th (Wednesday)]

I posted on one of the earlier pages that if you choose to R then I hope it is the right decision for you. I am a strong supporter of Reconciliation. But I just hope people or BS go into R with the facts and their blinders off.

Yes there are people who look down their nose at those who remain with a cheating spouse. I was one of those judgemental people. Freely admit it. But I changed my position on that a long time ago.

No one has the answer except you. It’s a crap shoot either way - you take a risk the minute you see on whether it will be a marriage forever or not - just know you should always have a back up plan. Just in case.

Not for infidelity but for many reasons - illness, death, spouse changes due to drinking or depression etc. Be prepared. No matter what.

How do I deal with the "experts" telling me I should go one way when I know at a very core level that I need to at least try the other way? It's overwhelming.

Why is it overwhelming?

I mean, I know it is, the pressure that comes from the crowd. But why is the crowd able to create that pressure for you? That's a question worth pondering on. Our social communities have tremendous influence.

The real tragedy would be if you were to go against a path that is true to yourself, to satisfy the opinions of others. I think R is a serious crapshoot, with a poor probability of success, but if that is what you are moved to try, then you should give it 100% and know that you followed your heart. But keep your eyes open.

Sending strength!

[This message edited by HouseOfPlane at 8:36 PM, June 12th (Wednesday)]

different advice provided to a BS with children who appears to have a much less remorseful WS.

Does this happen? I think most people tell BSes to get out, especially with a remorseless WS.

I have not read the whole thread so I'm sorry if this has been said, I just wanted to give my personal thought on why I always say r-u-n when there are no children involved. I personally think that it's usually pretty much always in the best interest of the betrayed to leave. We deserve better, kids or no kids. 50 years together or 1, however I realize that is not always practical for many different reasons. I just think of how much less complicated everything about leaving would be if I only had to think of ME. Only about supporting me. Only worrying about the emotional toil a divorce would have on me. The responsibility of children just amps up the complication level 1000 times. After all, their well being should come first in at least one parents mind 🙄. I know someone without children may love their significant other every bit as much as I love mine but unfortunately, I don't believe love is enough. If you don't have these kinds of practical complications, go. Make your life better. Find someone who deserves you.

Honestly, loving someone is the easy part.

cocoplus5nuts

Does this happen?

My perception is yes. I believe others feel similarly otherwise, this thread might not exist. To be clear, I'm not saying that divorce isn't also suggested to BS with children, but when it is, it is usually predicated on the behavior/remorselessness of the WS.

Honestly, loving someone is the easy part.

Truth. Sometimes it's the most irrelevant part too, depending upon the situation.

My perception is yes.

I have never seen R recommended under any circumstances, but especially not with a remorseless WP. I see it offered as a choice.

I've seen plenty of posts recommending that a BP with children leave, file for D, get the hell out. It may not be as blunt as, RUN, but it happens all the time.

Right. We do not disagree. I wrote:

To be clear, I''m not saying that divorce isn''t also suggested to BS with children, but when it is, it is usually predicated on the behavior/remorselessness of the WS.

Everyone here at SI who has reconciled have been told to divorce, in general, by the many members who believe that R doesn't work. They are pro divorce no matter the circumstances. I just read in a thread in Reconciliation where a member posted something along the lines of "get divorced, reconciliation doesn't work". I have been told that I shouldn't reconcile with a WS who had a LTA. Even though he was remorseful and a good candidate for reconciliation. Many of the newbies that come into JFO are told to divorce, especially a BH, no matter the circumstance or what the newbie feels they want.

The people that are anti-reconciliation are going to tell others to divorce regardless of anyone's situation and circumstances. It isn't a large group, but they tend to be very vocal. Than, there is the group that feels, as expressed on this thread that if you are childless that it is best to divorce. But, they don't feel that reconciliation isn't possible, in general, for many.

edited: to fix comma

[This message edited by SisterMilkshake at 5:46 PM, June 13th (Thursday)]

Sometimes it's the most irrelevant part too, depending upon the situation.

this is why I groan when ppl say, "but I love him/her." I really think they love the idea of who their spouse is. it's only AFTER the WS has done the work that you should love them again.

some oldie but goodie here said when his wife had an affair he stopped loving her. she had to earn the love back after years of hard work, etc. that was the way to go.

Well, I guess I am a romantic. I believe you love who you love and love is not earned.

I very much loved my XWH. His actions made that irrelevant. You love who you love, but that doesn't make the relationship a wise choice. Love can be a trap.

Agreed, Dee. Just because you love someone doesn't mean they aren't a toxic mess and the worst thing for you.