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RE: The poly.

Here's my take. You *say* you are letting him go. Let the papers be signed and pushed thru. Seperate, tell the kids, blah, blah. HOWEVER.....

The purpose of a poly for many BS is to get the truth. To help them decide if they want to R. SS17, at this point you aren't in R but the process for D.

The idea of you and the poly screams of, "Well maybe if I give him the "truth", I can get him back". It smacks of manipulation. Let.go.of.the.outcome. Get healthy. Do right. REGARDLESS of what Swat does.

I have read a lot here and that is often a suggestion. I wrote some pretty awful stuff in that journal. I've never seen anyone look the way he did that day. I was thinking it would give him some peace of mind. If I'm wrong so be it, but it has been suggested so many times I thought it might be a good thing for him.

So the polygraph is to prove that what you wrote was fantasy and not true? The Problem with that is how much was fantasy and how much was truth. You have lost all credibility to SWAT to the point that a polygraph could/would appear as manipulation. Even if you passed, what is the benefit? You let OM do things you wouldn't let SWAT do...that's not fantasy..that's truth.

The only reason to take a poly now is to prove that you're not lying to yourself

Hi SoSorry,

Hopefully my post will provide you with a little bit of insight. Specifically re the journal. In my sitch I found my mother's diary on the kitchen table. Didn't know what it was when I cracked it open while on the phone with a friend. Make a long story short, what I read in that diary is burned into my brain forever. Extremely graphic stuff. Things that were so graphic, her AP told her what a great "f" she was and that she should teach her boys how to "f". It got worse from there. Needless to say those things never happened but there was a period of time where I wasn't sure if there could have been sexual abuse with my brother. He committed suicide so it's not like I could ask him about it later. This is what I was 16 btw, now 40.

I then sat my father down, told him what was going on, and he insisted upon reading that diary. I watched the life drain out of his face that day. I then had to get into a physical confrontation with him to prevent him from going after AP. The rest as they say is history.

It took many years for us to come to the realization that what was in that diary was pure fantasy. Still extremely hurtful but none the less fantasy. Writing about the A, sexual experiences, whatever and executing are two different things (i.e. the sexual abuse of my brother and I). The point is we did eventually come to the realization that most of it was fantasy.

In the aftermath of all that has happened SWAT is not going to be able to see that. Even if it was. Maybe some of it was true and some of it wasn't. With his head spinning and his heart on the floor, there is no way he can tell what is real and what is not real. He will take it at face value as we did. Hopefully time and a better head space for SWAT will bring both of you clarity as the smoke clears.

Also, when you read something like that, and start to go through another DDay when you have barely recovered from the last one, any sort of sanity that you had with other issues in your life become exacerbated. Things like unresolved issues from your childhood, etc. Things can emotionally and mentally spiral out of control. Most of the time his negativity will be about the A. But not all of it. He's going to have some major negative emotions about being separated from the kids and what he thought was his family. Of course they are his family too as you mentioned, but you have to understand and see the even bigger picture from where SWAT is standing. Bottom line, there may be more going on with him than you know or could comprehend. There is nothing for you to act on with that. That is for you to file away in the back of your head someplace so that when he acts or makes decisions a certain way, his past is going to play a part.

I'm still pulling for you and your family SoSorry. Really I am. Do that work that I see you starting to pick up on. There is nothing like getting some of the best advice from some of the finest individuals in the world right here. Use it. I want to see you do what I did not see my mother do. I want to see you continue to move forward, to show remorse, and watch you become the best you that you can be. I will be cheering you on!

yop

SS17, I think I get where you're coming from. You may be finding your desire to be radically honest and if so, that is a very positive step forward. However, I agree that a polygraph would be something you should do if SWAT decides he needs it for reconciliation. Otherwise I don't think it serves a purpose.

You need to find internal motivation to change, and not be driven by external motivation like a poly. Keep pushing yourself and you'll get there.

SoSorry,

I've read posts by both you and your husband and I empathize with everything you and your whole family are going through now. Being 8 years out from my divorce and about 20 years out from my first D-day and separation, (yes, you read that right, my first D-day was October of 1994 and I didn't divorce until 12 years later), and as a BS I have some other things for you to think about. Things that may shed some light on how your BS may be feeling. I also could be totally off base and full of shit, but hey, it's another perspective.

After the first D-day in addition to being hurt, angry, humiliated and very pissed, I was also filled with anxiety about the future. My ex, like you, was in a much better financial position than me. I was afraid that he would use that to make my life miserable and try to bribe my kids away from me with the things he could buy/do for them.

They were young then, 11, 7 and 4, still impressionable, and we live in an affluent area where big houses, lavish vacations, expensive cars and homes at the lake are the norm. I was afraid the lure of that lifestyle would be attractive to them. I was also afraid of any new girlfriend/wife he might introduce into their life. Would they like her more than me? Would she be more fun to be around than me? God forbid, would she be younger and more cool than me? How would I manage financially? How could I even consider dating with three young girls in the house? Who could I trust around them? I saw a very scary, lonely and dismal future for myself.

Then on top of that my ex had an air about him like, "well I did something bad, I said I was sorry, a lot of people do it, can we just get past it and look, I'm here NOW, aren't I??"

I mean, was I just supposed to suck it up and be ok with it? Ummm, no. It doesn't work that way.

What I wanted him to do was to just shut up and leave me alone. I didn't want him to talk or do anything to try and make things better because there was nothing he could do or say that would or could make it better. But there were things he could do that would prove he understood the bomb he had set off in our lives.

Like--see the kids on MY schedule, make sure that I was not inconvenienced by anything he did. Make sure that I would not suffer and additional financial, professional or social hardship due to his behavior. I wanted him to not drag out divorce issues and to treat my attorney with respect. I wanted him to leave my friends and family out of it and respect the fact that they wanted no part of him. I wanted him to keep his social life private and keep our kids the hell away from anyone he was dating. He was to keep any "poor me" nonsense a bazillion miles away from our children. He would be honest with anyone who asked him what happened--none of this "we just grew apart," crap.

Of course he didn't do a very good job with any of it. As a result, I have not seen or spoken to him in nearly 8 years. Although reconciliation was not even a possibility for us, if my ex had conducted himself better after discovery of the affair, during the divorce and after, maybe I could at least be civil and in the same room with him. Now there's not a chance of that happening.

In your case your BS seems to still love and care for you and you for him, but divorce may still be in the cards. However, people who divorce remarry all the time. It may seem counterintuitive but if you want this man and a future with him you may have to give him up for the present.

Kill the drama and keep to yourself, lay low and spend time alone or with your kids. If people are talking about you or want to talk about what happened, go silent or pretend they are invisible. Refuse to be the topic of conversation any longer. Surely you and your spouse are not the only things going on in your community. People will move on to the next story if you let yours burn out.

Quit trying to read your BS's mind because if you could, you won't like what you see anyway. Don't try to make him feel better because you can't. Too late.

Guarantee him access to the children whenever he wants, however he wants. Maybe he should live in the house and you could come and go, especially if you don't work outside the home.

You also have to take care of yourself. Ok, you did a bad thing, you're not a bad person. You are hardly the first person to push the envelope, be spoiled or to never have heard the word, "no."

But you have to be willing to do the hard stuff now. You have young children, you're going to want to get your head together and know who you are and what you're about before you have to start dealing with their pre-teen and teen-age stuff. As so many others have said, time to put on those big-girl pants and get busy.

You are SO young and have your whole life to do wonderful things. Don't let this set the tone for the rest of your life. What you're going through is a challenge but in every challenge is an opportunity. You are probably way stronger than you think you are. Good luck.

a polygraph would be something you should do if SWAT decides he needs it for reconciliation. Otherwise I don't think it serves a purpose.

Summed up perfectly. At this point, R is off the table. Work on YOU. Focus on changing, healing, and growing. Stop focusing on doing whatever it takes to get SWAT back. Instead, focus on doing whatever it takes to become your best self. You are worthy and your kids deserve it.

Thanks everyone. The poly was just a thought and it had been mentioned to me very early on. It is on the table so to speak if he ever wants it.

My big brother stopped by this evening. He talked to me while Swat had the kids. Not a pleasant convo. He is hurt and angry as well. He said my actions caused him to lose his best friend besides SIL. Swat hasn't talked to him hardly at all. We talked for a while and he said he was just upset as he knows Swat and I are. He wasn't dumping on me or anything but this is the first time he's shown any real emotion to me about it. Swat brought the kids back and stood in the front yard about 25 feet from me when I opened the door. He said "I'm working tonight and have court in the morning, so please make sure they get to therapy tommorrow." The kids,they were really quiet and just wanted to go to bed. Swat and my brother talked for like a minute and shook hands. That was it, they walked away from one another. That sucks on so many levels. The pain for both of them was visible from a distance.

I've got some bridges to mend with the family. Some of you mentioned us getting back together even after the d. Not sure if that's a good thing for him. I need a lot of work. While typing this post, I can almost feel the need and desire to put a twist on it. Whoa is me stuff ya know. I'm not, I'm just stating facts or statements. That helps a little, just writing what happens without any of my emotion just my observation. If that makes sense let me know alright.

He did ask if there were any pictures, but I really had forgotten about them. So I said no

You can't kid a kidder. I struggle to think you are truthful here. If you were asked specifically, the memory should have popped up. I think you are still trying to protect yourself. But you can't. It's pretty much public knowledge and you are losing it all. Why not be honest with yourself about what the situation is so that you can be honest with him.

Came here to say that. I'm sorry, but there's just no way that you don't remember sending naked photos to the man you were cheating on your husband with. Especially since your husband specifically asked, which would have jarred your memory.

Your husband doesn't believe you. I don't believe you. I don't think anybody here believes you.

We're not important, so no harm done by lying on this forum, but your husband was important. Your marriage was important. But apparently not as important as your urge to Get Away With It.

There is only one thing sexually I did with AP that I wouldn't do with BH

That's all it takes. Now your husband knows you were more in love with the other man than you ever were with him. You husband now knows that he is, and always was, second place. Your husband was the one who paid the bills; the other man was the one you actually lusted after. Think about how that makes your husband feel. Believe me, he won't stop thinking about it for a long, long time.

It's the non-stop lying that does the most harm, though.

In head-trauma medicine, there's a thing called "second impact syndrome". That's when someone has received a head injury, and then receives another one before completely recovering from the first. The results can be devastating.

Well, your husband has now received his third blow to the head. He caught you cheating and lying and asked you to stop cheating and stop lying. You lied again and snuck off to see the other man. He caught you again -- that was his second blow to the head. Then he asked you if there were photos and you lied yet again and he found out about that too.

Here's what your husband has learned: He can never trust anything you say. You will always lie if the truth is uncomfortable. You will always put Getting Away With It ahead of trying to save your marriage or helping him heal.

I'm sorry I'm being so negative here. I've been where your husband is, and this is all very triggering to me.

Is there still hope? Hard to say. Your husband has given you multiple chances to make this right and you threw them all in his face. I think subconsciously, you don't want to save your marriage. I think RedSox13 is right; keeping that journal so your husband could find it, instead of destroying it or coming clean seems pretty destructive to me.

But if you actually do want to save your marriage, this is what you have to do. And no BS this time.

Never, ever, ever lie to him again. About anything. Answer any question he asks, no matter how personal. If he asks if you used condoms. If he asks what positions you had sex in. If he asks where you had sex. If he asks who else knew. If he asks how many times you came. Whatever. No matter what he asks, you have to come absolutely clean. No exceptions. If it's too painful to talk about, ask him if you can write it down and give it to him on paper. But don't lie, and don't hold anything back. Ever again.

Look up "Joseph's letter". Read it; it's the most succinct explanation of why betrayed spouses ask so many questions about the affair, and why they need absolute honesty.

Give your husband all the time he needs to heal. You're extremely lucky that he's still living within arm's reach. A lot of husbands would have packed up the truck and driven out of your life forever.

Work on yourself. Find out why you became the kind of person who would lie and cheat. Become the kind of person who doesn't lie and cheat. You need to heal yourself before you can heal your marriage.

Even though it looks hopeless, and even though I don't think you deserve it, I'm still rooting for you. What can I say, I'm a sucker for a happy ending.

There is only one thing sexually I did with AP that I wouldn't do with BH

That's all it takes. Now your husband knows you were more in love with the other man than you ever were with him. You husband now knows that he is, and always was, second place.

I don't think this is necessarily true. I don't think what you will do with one person sexually as opposed to another necessarily has any bearing whatsoever on whom you were "more in love with." Maybe others are different...but that is my opinion on that.

With all due respect capilot, cut the woman some slack. I understand your triggers, but i think you're being a bit harsh. It doesn't really matter if you don't believe her or that you don't think she deserves anything. She had nothing to prove to you. She's not your WW.

Also, doing acts with AP that she doesn't do with her husband doesn't mean she "loves" AP more. I did things with my AP I'd never done with my husband. I was *that* desperate for validation. Love had nothing to do with it.

[This message edited by Aubrie at 8:00 PM, June 5th (Thursday)]

SoSorry,

It appears to me that you and SWAT are moving on to a new stage here. You have been told several times that you need to begin to work on yourself. It occurred to me, however that you may not understand what that means. You have spent so much time floundering trying to protect yourself, minimize, and omit in an attempt to save your marriage that you haven't been able to begin the work you need to to become a better person and begin growing as a human being.

Roll up your sleeves. Look at what you were telling yourself everytime you made an excuse that allowed you to step over each line and justify your affair. What exactly did you say to yourself to make you feel better about it? It may be complete bullshit but it's a great place to start.

Then start new threads here with each specific issue or discovery you are having. It will help you and it will help others stay focused and on the subject.

Be honest with yourself. Look at your timeline and attach feelings/ emotions to it to understand where you were coming from during that time span. It won't be all your why's but it will be a start.

I'm glad you keep coming back. You have taken some lumps and I can guarantee that more will come. But keep in mind that we have all BTDT. We understand and the advice is given from a place of experience not judgement.

While typing this post, I can almost feel the need and desire to put a twist on it. Whoa is me stuff ya know. I'm not, I'm just stating facts or statements. That helps a little, just writing what happens without any of my emotion just my observation. If that makes sense let me know alright.

It makes all the sense in the world. And it is the first really healthy choice I have seen you make for yourself.

He said my actions caused him to lose his best friend besides SIL.

By writing what you heard, not how you felt--you actually heard. You heard what your brother said to you.

Swat and my brother talked for like a minute and shook hands. That was it, they walked away from one another. That sucks on so many levels. The pain for both of them was visible from a distance.

By observing, and watching, and not intervening, and not inserting yourself, you actually saw. You saw their pain, and felt an echo of it. That is empathy you felt. It is something you need to work on.

Keep listening, and tell us what you hear. Keep watching, and tell us what you see. Learning to listed and to see will be a huge step in your journey toward fixing what brought you to this place of pain.

Also, doing acts with AP that she doesn't do with her husband doesn't mean she "loves" AP more.

To be fair to capilot, I think he was saying from a BS perspective SWAT will be thinking this, not that it's a statement of fact.

To be fair to capilot, I think he was saying from a BS perspective SWAT will be thinking this, not that it's a statement of fact.

Exactly, thanks for seeing that.

Day in, day out, Swat70 is thinking "She did it with him, but she rejected me. Where does that put me on the totem pole?"

In my case, my SO told the other man she loved him more in a week than she told me total in eight years.

In terms of what SWAT is experiencing... try to remember that while your life and affair is all on a timeline you're quite familiar with, to SWAT, each new discovery forces him to experience the affair all over again, from the beginning.

So, right now, he's in the first week of discovering that his wife had an affair. Since he has been through this before with you, he's more familiar with his own reactions. And he has a better idea of what he can and cannot handle, hence the request to accelerate the divorce process.

The new affair feelings, though, are strong. And to someone who took your marriage quite seriously, well, he's feeling a little dead inside right now, no doubt.

This is why we advocate telling the "whole" truth as soon as possible if we're interested in reconciliation. Because every little detail about the affair, no matter how small, will hit him again just like the original affair did.

And each time it hits, it hits with a lot of force and eliminates most of the progress you made in the meantime.

I'm sorry it's happening this way. I believe you are two people who really want to raise your children together and enjoy a long marriage. But these betrayals run so deep that it would take a very strong man with a lot of patience and dedication to open the door to reconciliation.

And I'm still not sure you get it. Not to be mean about this, but I still get the feeling you can't empathize with your husband. It's always your projections - you feel he's taking these deaths too hard - you feel guilt because his relationship with your brother is strained. What about just taking some time to feel what he's feeling?

Red Sox. I have and I think that I understand how he feels. He is hurt by my betrayal and all the lies. He doesn't know if I'm being honest or ever loved him. Being a woman I can't relate to some things obviously, but I understand how he feels. If the roles were reversed I would be feeling the same if not worse. It isn't in his nature to cheat, if he ever did, I would have had to do something so traumatic to him. But wait I did that didn't I? BH world has blown up and he is struggling, I see it. I'm trying my best to help him and now my kids heal.

SS17, I think it's hard when you're hearing what might sound like two conflicting pieces of advice: think of SWAT's feelings, and "focus on yourself now" -- but both are completely valid and they aren't as mutually exclusive as they sound at first.

The "you" part is about control. You can't control the outcome of your marriage right now, you can't control how SWAT feels or what he does. You can control what you choose to face about yourself, and how much you choose to work on those things. You can focus your "control" efforts on yourself by being willing to be uncomfortable in your self-honesty and honesty with your family and SWAT. By willing to do the hard things necessary to heal, through your own choice.

That's not about focusing on what each situation means for you, or about how your affair or Swat's words or actions are impacting your life, or how SWAT's reactions are making you feel. It's just about being brutally honest with yourself about yourself, the deep down stuff, finding someone who can help you with that via therapy, and making positive choices and developing healthy boundaries. TONS of work - just tons.

The "Swat" part is about recognizing that triage for his feelings and needs are what the relationship focus is or was about. I guess "is" about, as you two will still be coparents to your children even if you divorce. It's about being selfless in your emotional priority list when you're interacting with him. Putting his needs first, thinking always about how words, events, the past, lies and truths will impact him.

So even though the "think of swat!" and "focus on yourself" advice seems conflicting, it's more about controlling what you can (just yourself) and continuously emotionally empathizing with the person you hurt.

Some of you mentioned us getting back together even after the d. Not sure if that's a good thing for him. I need a lot of work.

I'm so glad you wrote that. That's a really good example of focusing on yourself while trying to react empathetically to Swat's needs. Being willing to let him go if that's best for him, and being willing to work on yourself regardless of what happens to your marriage.

What happened at the ADA office regarding the harassment from the OM? I'm sure you'd feel more comfortable knowing that he was dealt with. If you don't deal with each and every instance of him insinuating himself into yours (and your families) lives, he will feel empowered to continue.

I'm glad you didn't let it go. I'd be nice if he went away to jail, for a long time.

Hey SoSorry,

I just wanted to congratulate your progress with honesty over the last couple of days.

I think we all want people to believe that we are perfect -- or at least nearly perfect. We also like to believe nothing but great things about ourselves. The truth is that nobody is perfect though. Everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY, has faults.

Given that everyone has faults, I think it is an immense show of character for a person to admit their faults, both to themselves and to others. I see you doing this more and more.

Personally, I respect someone who is radically honest and can admit their faults exponentially more than someone that cannot admit their faults. We all have them. Some people are just not capable of admitting them though.

Regarding the scary work in IC -- yes, even as a BH I had some scary work in IC. I like to think of it as exercise for character. It is not always a fun-feel-good-time -- in fact there are a lot of uncomfortable and not feel-good-times -- but if I keep at it it results in a better me.

Keep us posted on the discoveries you make with the scary stuff. A lot of people are rooting for you, myself included.

Saw IC today and had a very long list of topics to discuss. It seems like yesterday everything was fine in my marriage. It is hard to pinpoint when I let it fall of the track.

IC noticed right away my sense of entitlement and manipulative behavior. During our discussion it was almost painfully obvious and it is scary that I never noticed it. I manipulated everything and everyone to get what I wanted. Early last year I wanted excitement and an ego boost. I made it happen. Well its now a shit storm of excitement and I couldn't feel worse.

As far back as I can remember I've needed someone else to make me feel good about myself. I always sought to be praised for something. I don't ever remember being just me and happy. Someone had to tell me how smart, pretty, talented, etc. I wanted that in the worst way and I'm not sure why. I don't remember any traumatic events and my home life was great growing up. I think I was actually spoiled a lot. More than I would any of my kids. But I actively sought out approval from others in everything I did.

So after IC, I'm feeling down. I almost called my mom. Cause she would understand and would likely praise me for getting help. That is what I mean, she is obviously involved it this mess, but why do I need validation from her? The funny thing..I didn't call and she didn't have to coddle or reassure me..and I'm fine. Two hours ago I wasn't doing well, but now I'm alright. I ordered pizza for dinner and the kids and I are enjoying a night in and I'm fine. I'm trying to stand on my own for once and for once I'm feeling I can do this.