SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

W

MC Isn‘t a magic pill.

You won’t meet a guy that goes “AHA! Infidelity! THIS is what we do” and then three sessions later everything is hunky-dory.

In fact – a good MC won’t even touch the infidelity until some way into sessions. Initial sessions will be used to establish communications and some form of trust. Sort of deal with what you already feel is a problem in how you and Mrs. W interact.

I would ask your IC to recommend several MC’s. Ask for those that have specialized in how MEN deal with infidelity. Despite my initial comment then the MC WILL deal with the affair and at that time it’s good to know he’s experienced for YOUR POV.

Regarding the kids…

I think you should come down like a ton of bricks on your kids if they show their mom disrespect.

You should make it clear that she’s YOUR wife and no matter what she has done and whatever the eventual outcome might be then she is THEIR mother.

Make that very clear to them. You and W are a united front as far as parenting is concerned.

Frankly I think the kids would appreciate it.

As for sex, I'm not ready. I know this. Heck, I think I've been embarrassingly open about just how not ready I am. And no, no change. Still dead.

If you don't even get an erection when you wake up in the morning, it means that the trauma from her infidelity has really hit you hard. I suggest you look into seeing a sex therapist to take care of this problem, because when R time comes, if you suffer from erectile disfunction in the presence your wife, she will think that you hate her very much. (Many women associate a man's erection with a proof of love. Thus, in their minds, no erection, no love.) And then there is the whole performance anxiety that kicks in. I had that after my WW's infidelity. The fear of not performing as well as the other man always lingered in the back of my mind and became a mental block for me, and for her, a sign that I did not love her anymore. I know, it's really screwed up!!

Hey ((Wallped))

I don't want to re-state what the good folks here have already said.....What can heal one can hurt another, sex whether HB post D date or as part of R is a huge step, regardless of desire!

Where how, when to start....if you will ever start, and whether you will desire it again with her? ...are all reasonable questions of a BS, when considered in the context of an A durnig a long term M and the lens you are looking through at this point in time.

Intimacy is something you share when you T a person....you aren't sure you can T her, so it goes without saying, you aren't sure you can be intimate when you aren't sure you really even know who Mrs. is anymore!

Catch 22....Yup! Wish it were easier on you!

WTTS

Walloped

I think she is taking cues from you. She is staying away because initially you told her that's what you wanted. I think you holding her hands was huge. That was the first real physical contact she has had with you in 6-7 weeks. I think she is scared to death to initiate anything because she doesn't know how you will react.

I would suggest starting small like you did. Holding her hand occasionally or a smile or touch on the shoulder. A simple way to emotionally connect to her while also giving physical touch. Like they with the little babies in the NICU who need human touch to thrive.

Then at your comfort level go from there. But small gesture to your wife will help her feel more stable and able to take risks with reaching out to you as well. And mentally, human touch will do wonders to help your wife.

W - you could just ask her how she's doing, going from 4-6x/week with two guys to whatever is she's doing now.

Abrupt? Maybe, but you'll have to address the subject sometime and you may as well start with something that's on your mind.

Walloped, as far as "needs" sexually, everyone is different. You have had the shock of your life which of course will destroy your intimate feelings towards your wife.

She has created a shit storm that has resulted in the tremendous distance between the two of you. She has to be an adult and recognize that there may not be intimacy for quite while. She cannot use this distance as an excuse to feel sorry for herself or to backslide in her personal growth. She's got to suck it up and realize that, in your own words, and said I'm still here though. That's got to be enough for her now.

Personally, I made the mistake of forcing physical intimacy too soon many months ago. I told myself to just jump back in. It did NOT go well. Things got going sexually, and BAM! the thoughts came rushing in... the idea that, a year before, when I would come back to bed in the morning ( I get up early to take care of the animals), I was giving my husband pleasure, and he would go off to work and talk to her or see her. The idea that I was being so giving and he was so callous, even writing loving emails to her from our bed at night..... all of this came rushing back when I forced myself too soon.

Take your time. Hobbes has a good suggestion: baby steps.

Again, your posts show what a kind and intelligent man you are. She's a very lucky woman.

I agree that your WS must take the lead. She must take the risks. If she loves you she will. If she wants the marriage, she will fight for it. At the present time, she is playing the victim. That is a problem.

Your WW needs to make you feel safe. She needs to make you feel desired. Your 'q' is her actions and so far other than self pity, does has been none.

You will never heal because she is doing nothing to make you feel better, she is looking for you to make her feel better.

My point it she is still thinking like a WW.

Regarding the kids…

I think you should come down like a ton of bricks on your kids if they show their mom disrespect.

You should make it clear that she’s YOUR wife and no matter what she has done and whatever the eventual outcome might be then she is THEIR mother.

Make that very clear to them. You and W are a united front as far as parenting is concerned.

Bigger - Oh, I did exactly that. The girls have been "on my side" for the past few weeks so I believe they thought I'd have their backs. I didn't. It was quite a shock to them and I think they got the message that disrespect (in general, but certainly related to our situation) toward either one of us will not be tolerated.

I think they got the message that disrespect (in general, but certainly related to our situation) toward either one of us will not be tolerated.

Her affair has to have done a lot of damage to the entire family, not solely to you. I can't begin to imagine the impact on your older daughter of having the whole thing conducted around the time of her wedding, to say nothing of the fact that your wife's attitude toward wedding preparations played an integral role in the affair. So it's not just a matter of the kids using the affair as justification for treating her with disrespect. It's a symptom of the damage that has been done to them, and needs to be recognized as such.

That said, the disrespect itself shouldn't be tolerated, but the damage done to the kids does need to be explicitly recognized and dealt with.

Foley - My children have no knowledge of anything regarding my wife's affair other than that she had one. She has not told them details other than vague things and instead has really focused on owning up to what she's done to me and them, and helping them deal with whatever feelings they have on this. My kids are in IC and are handling this as well as can be expected. My being home for the past week has been very beneficial as well.

You will never heal because she is doing nothing to make you feel better, she is looking for you to make her feel better.

My point it she is still thinking like a WW.

rambler - I kind of disagree with this. I don't believe she is - either acting like a WW or waiting for me to make her feel better. She is not being proactive with me because my prior actions have sent the message that I would not appreciate it and she is respecting that at a cost to her. Based on her body language and demeanor, I can tell you there's nothing more that she'd rather do than spend as much time with me or do for me as possible. But I've indicated that I'm not comfortable with that so she is following that lead. Case in point, she suggested we go to the Bronx Zoo today with the boys (the girls had plans). Good weather, would've been nice. But I couldn't bring myself to spend the day with her at the zoo - I know I should have, for the boys, I just couldn't. So I said no. I know she was disappointed, but she didn't complain or whine or try to convince me - she just said, "okay, maybe next time." and then she took the boys by herself instead.

I'm not excusing her affair, and sure there are consequences, but I'm not going to say she's doing the wrong thing when from her POV she's in a no-win situation.

Think of it this way (or at least this is how I think of it)…

Your WW needs to make you feel safe. She needs to make you feel desired.

I agree - okay, but I've also made it clear that I don't want her to, so, if you were her, what would you do? Try to make me feel desired even though I've been clear I don't want her too, and run the risk of me saying she's being selfish and trying to rug sweep, or have to endure a verbal barrage from me in reaction to an unwanted advance? Or, watch for my signals and keep a distance, subtly or not so subtly bring up things that would bring us together, but not too overtly, but by being passive, be accused of not doing anything. Basically, I don't think she has any good options. And while that's a consequence of her behavior and I can say "too bad - deal with it," that doesn't really get me anywhere.

Walloped,

U are great person to go through this and still defending ur wife , remembering the good things in her , this just shows how good person u are

Ur wife is a Good person and very good one indeed but at the same time she is soooooooo naive . What she did is unforgivable for most us , but let me say that she still has the courage to realize the sin she has done . She didn't back off and ran from facing the consequences of her deeds . She tolerated the lashes from u and her kids , ( please , do not understand that I am blaming u , at the contrary ,u have the right to lash but I am saying it is rare to find a remorseful ws , even when she was exposed at the beginning at the of affair , she didn't let the fog state to make things worse,

Ur wife loves you to death , so why did she do this? She was too foolish to realize the danger of lifting the boundaries with men , especially like the devil she met.

If you read the wayward forum u notice that many of them disabled the pm , because they experienced what these small steps will lead to , most of the affairs starts with tiny moves then boom u find urself doomed.

Again u have all the right to leave her to divorce her , but just great people like u, stands up for the sake of their families .

It breaks my heart to see wonderful family like urs suffering because of devil's actions, and I pray daily for u and ur family to find ur happiness again

W,

How are you doing? are you feeling any better?

I would like to know, also, hiw do you plan ti know if your ww is the person you want to R if she doesnt have a chance to prove it?

You can not stand to be arround her while you can tell she is willing to prove you she is 100% into fix your marriage, what are yiu waiting to happened to decide R or D? IMHO you need to be very carefull to not be in limbo for very long as it will cost yiu, and your kids and ww, a big toll.

W,

Do you feel that you could handle spending an hour alone with your WW outside the house? Not talking about the A, but perhaps taking a walk, going to a bistro, etc? Taking a mental break and trying to reconnect just a little?

I think that you need to get to know each other again. I'll bet that there is a lot that you like about each other and it may be helpful to remind yourselves of that from time to time.

And I suspect that she is not suffering from the lack of sex; she likely doesn't feel sexy at all right now. Odds are she would want emotional intimacy but knows that isn't in the cards at this time. I think she'll wait as long as you need to.

W -

You are doing just fine. That you are even giving this a chance is noble of you.

This is where SI can be damaging - we can offer advice but you are one billion percent on your own time table here. You have to play it by gut for the most part.

Your mind may never reconcile what she did. The stats show it's a deal breaker for most marriages. If you try to force a square peg into a circle hole then you will damage what is left of the relationship, and you're going to need that to co-parent.

It's too early to tell which way this is going to go, but my point is to not abandon your stark pragmatism that has served you so well thus far. (I don't think you are)

I know many here will dissent with my opinion, however here it goes.

I disagree with coming down on your kids hard. Yes, I agree with the fact that they should remain respectful to both you and WW. However, I see their 'taking your side' or rejection of your WW's actions as a good thing. It shows that they have a distaste for infidelity and that they have good moral values.

We always forget, they too were disrespected by the affair and betrayed as well, regardless of whether it's their marriage or not. Just read Yearsofpain's background and you will see that such affairs damage the kids too.

It sounds like you have already come down on the kids hard anyway so I guess the point is moot. However, initially, the kids were on her side, then they heard what she did and they were on yours. Now who only knows what is going through their heads.

There is a way to cope with their feelings and maintain decorum without sandblasting them which I hope you didn't do.

I agree with Foley05 here.

None-0the-less, since the topic has moved on beyond this, I just wanted to throw in my two cents since I am late to the topic

W, Western - it may be helpful to say a few words about where I'm coming from on this topic. My mother, widowed at the time, was in an affair with a married colleague around the time of my marriage. We had both been close to her but the affair really made her more of an outsider than either of us would have thought possible - in contrast to our relationship with my wife's mother, which only deepened over time. I've always felt that something really important was lost, and we both wish that things could have turned out differently.

It sounds like you have already come down on the kids hard anyway so I guess the point is moot.

Western - No, I didn't. What I did do was let them know that disrespecting their mother is not suddenly "okay" because she did something wrong. Even if that wrong thing hurt them. It's okay for them to be upset at their mother for what she did, and we will all work together to deal with it. But, if she chastises them for say, a school related situation, they cannot start disrespecting her and using her affair as an excuse. That, is what I won't tolerate.

Rain - Thank you for your kind words. Not to get too philosophical or spiritual here - fair warning for those who are not so inclined - but I always believed that the "devil" is simply God's messenger to test us. And there are many tests in life, and many of those tests are not always "evil" or "bad." But those tests are there for us to become better people and closer to God in the process. So, when there's a serious illness in the family, how do you react? Does a marriage fall apart? Do we start blaming everyone? Do we rant and rave and scream and yell? Or do we pray, reach out to family and friends, bond closer as a family and focus on what's really important in life? I firmly believe POS was a test for my wife, which she unfortunately failed. And her failure is now my test. How do I react to that? What do I do? How do I deal with her? In kindness, or in anger? This, in large part, is sort of what has guided me in the way I've been trying to deal with this. I know I've failed many times over the past 7 weeks, where I've let understandable anger and hatred get the better of me. But I am trying. I believe I can say that in good conscience. This is not a “turn the other cheek” ideal. It’s simply that whatever way we handle things, do we do so with grace, dignity, respect, sensitivity, and kindness. Meaning, even if we were to divorce, there’s a way to do so and a way not to. And perhaps that philosophy can explain where I am coming from in all of this. End of religious side-bent.

I would like to know, also, hiw do you plan ti know if your ww is the person you want to R if she doesnt have a chance to prove it?

You can not stand to be arround her while you can tell she is willing to prove you she is 100% into fix your marriage, what are yiu waiting to happened to decide R or D? IMHO you need to be very carefull to not be in limbo for very long as it will cost yiu, and your kids and ww, a big toll.

MrHealed – I know. This is what I am grappling with. It’s not fair to expect her to do X or Y, while at the same time I’m not only not letting do X and Y, but I’m telling her that if she does X and Y I’ll blow up at her. It’s on me.

Do you feel that you could handle spending an hour alone with your WW outside the house? Not talking about the A, but perhaps taking a walk, going to a bistro, etc? Taking a mental break and trying to reconnect just a little?

I think that you need to get to know each other again. I'll bet that there is a lot that you like about each other and it may be helpful to remind yourselves of that from time to time.

Catlover – Good suggestion.

Just to be clear (and this is for MrHealed as well), sometimes I cannot stand to be around her. Other times I have feelings of intense love and connection toward her. Here’s an example. On Saturday, she was sitting on the floor playing Ticket to Ride with the boys. They were laughing, my wife was trash talking to the boys, it was wonderful. It was HER. And I had feelings of tremendous love toward her. Later, she took a shower and came downstairs to check on something in her bathrobe. She had her towel with her and was toweling her hair. Guess where my mind went? How many times did she shower at his place? Did she even bother with a robe there? Etc., etc. And I started crying. She didn’t see me. But I obviously wasn’t feeling very positive toward her at that moment. And that’s why I refused the Bronx Zoo trip – because I knew something would trigger me. Something would set me off and I couldn’t do it.

But maybe, like you’re suggesting, taking it in baby steps, would help. So if something does trigger me, it’s not like we’re stuck for a full day or something. And I agree that we cannot maintain the status quo. Something has to change.

Eric - yeah...I'm realizing this more and more. There's no playbook. A lot of this will be a "gut" thing. And that's why I keep second guessing myself, because my emotions are so volatile I no longer have confidence in my ability to make the right call. I get that mistakes are to be expected. I just feel a bit rudderless and it's uncomfortable to be in this situation with so much at stake.

So W, your rudderless comment is interesting.

This is a mental exercise. If you remain rudderless, and become frustrated by it, what do course of action do you see yourself most likely taking?

I surmise this dominates yours thoughts. Perhaps by writing them out your can provide them some structuralism.

keep in mind your children are going through very similar (if not the same) emotions you are.

Your WW betrayed them as well.

Eric - Yes, it does dominate my thoughts. You know by now that I'm a process / analytical guy. My rambling posts here is, deep down, simply me trying to organzie my thoughts and make sense of them in order to determine a plan of action. Of course, next up is a post from someone telling me I can't force it and to give it time. Which intellectually I know is true and right, but there's a big part of me that doesn't like that answer.

Anyway, to answer your question, if I remain rudderless, I believe we're headed for divorce, unless my wife takes charge and provides direction if I'm too frozen to. But that's why I'm mulling MC and talking about how we are in this "can't last limbo stage." Because I feel rudderless and I am concerned that it's not helpful to anything.

It's also why I like Catlover's suggestion of doing things in baby steps. Start small. See how it goes. Build on small successes. That kind of thing.