SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I was on vacation when you started posting and just ran across your thread yesterday. Took me some time to read it all

I am six years passed both D-Days and consider myself healed. Early on, I made many mistakes. Mistakes that you have already avoided with the help of SI. I want to touch on a few things. Like yourself, I couldn't make a decision on whether to divorce or not. I swear it changed from minute to minute some days. I finally decided that I was going to protect myself as best I could and take it day by day... as long as he was continuing NC and working on himself. That decision brought so much peace to me it truly was a huge weight lifted. I opened a separate bank account, obtained my own credit card, changed the beneficiary on my life insurance and 401(k) to my daughter. I had my attorney draft a Separation Agreement and to this day, I still have it. Thankfully, we never needed it. Last year, I added my husband back on as my beneficiary.

As to the mind movies, they seemed to pass quickly for me. Perhaps it is the difference between men and women. I was more hurt by the lying and the way the OW assumed she could just step in and take my place that caused my nightmares. The sex was a smaller aspect for me.

I didn't like checking up on him. I understood that for a while it was necessary and frankly a little addictive. I felt like I was the mother of a teenage boy and couldn't stand feeling like a warden. After a while of him doing the right thing and me not finding anything concerning, I just stopped. I can't even remember the last time I checked anything. Cause you know what, if it is happening again, it will come out. I didn't know shit about infidelity the first time and the discovery was purely accidental. I'm wiser now and feel confident that I would recognize the signs.

Does it change who you are? In the short term, oh yes. I was so angry; scary angry. I didn't know that I could hate someone that much. The OW is an integral part of my life; never a personal friend but deep ties with family and friends. This has made my healing a little rough and still to this day, she yanks on my chain. I've long since given up trying to figure her out... what a waste of air that girl is. Today, I am pretty much the same person I was before the affair. I trust people again, I assume most people are good and even seeing her doesn't really bother me. It's hard to describe but it just becomes another story in your life. Like getting through high school when you are a major geek.

My relationship with my husband is very good. The dynamics of our marriage have not really changed. But we both saw a side of each other we didn't know was there. For a long time, after each argument, no matter what it was about, I would immediately think, "we are not going to make it." I would mentally begin dividing up the furniture and looking for places to move. But each time we made it over a hump, it got better. Bottom line, I know in my heart that if we don't make it, I will be ok. I am glad that we stayed together. Life doesn't give us any guarantee and sometimes you just take it day by day.

I can only speak from my experience but wanted you to know that it's going to be ok. I know it doesn't seem like that now but the hurt is not going to be so sharp and you won't think about it all day, every day. I love your writing style and can see that great personality all over your posts. I promise, no matter what, you are going to be fine!

cajun123

What are you talking about? I'm a fraud and a troll? keep those thoughts to your self please.i don't live on this site everyday!

Wall,

On your first postings when you first came on here, did you write that she stated " She loved you, but not sure she was "In love" with you? How does she feel now?

Also, ( I know you don't want yo just yet)but has she tried/wanted to be close or make love or does she not feel it at this time?

Also, is she sad and depressed for what she did or is she missing the excitement that she had before?

Has she been doing anything to show she wants to make this work and that you can trust her again?

cajun123...

It is not your place to call out any member on this site. Please show respect to this community.

You also have a PM.

Sorry, I was wrong & meant no disrespect to the SI community.

Wal, for me it would be too soon for MC, but you can always try to schedule one session, tell your wife in advance you're not binding yourself to anything, and if after that one session you feel you're not ready yet, you can discontinue the MC for the time being. Still, I think it's perfectly reasonable and healthy for you to say "No, no MC for now".

I also agree with others, consider telling her (or her sister) to go running or to buy a home bicycle etc. She must exercise and eat&sleep healthily.

best wishes

Rough weekend so far. None of it really affair related - just personal stuff with the kids. Everything is okay. It's the old saying, bigger kids bigger problems. I love them, but they're going through some other things right now, and this whole thing with me and my wife is just adding to their own issues emotionally. So…drama. Lots of it. Cause I don't have enough of that in my life now. Lots of deep breaths. My wife felt like she couldn't take a tough stance because her affair would get thrown at her by the girls. Consequences, she hadn't foreseen, I guess. So of course it fell mostly to me, but at times like these they need their mother. She stepped up anyway - but it was not the confident person she usually is when dealing with them. We kinds of got things to a normal state later in the afternoon - everyone calmed down. We even watched the season premier of Doctor Who together.

So later, I sat my wife down, and I took her hands in mine to talk to her. I have to tell you that the simple act of holding her hands had me a complete and total mess. I didn't want to touch her. I didn't want to let go. I had memories and feelings of over a quarter century together. I had visions of her and POS. I found myself barely able to talk. But I didn't want to let go because perhaps that would send a message of rejection and she'd react negatively and that's not why I wanted to talk to her.

So I held on, as much as I hated it at times. And I told her that she can't be a scaredy cat all the time. That it's not healthy. And yes, I or the girls might lash out. It would be understandable and a consequence of her affair, but that doesn't mean we would be right in doing it. But, the fact that we might or very likely will doesn't mean she shouldn't be her. I also told her again that I wasn't planning on divorcing her. I'm not there. And that I wanted to see if she could be the person I need her to be so that I feel safe with her that I'd want to reconcile. I told her again that she could do everything right, but I may not get there, and while that might not seem fair to her, her affair wasn't fair to me and I simply don't know if I can get past it. But I want to see if I can. I'd like to. And then I told her that she cannot continue walking on eggshells around me. That there's no way for me to see who she is now or whether she's somebody I want to reconcile with if we don't interact. And I owned up to my part in our not interacting, And that this needed to change. But she needs to be prepared for wild swing of emotions on my part. But I was concerned for her and the way she's been dealing with it so far on her end.

Anyway, I told her that I narrowed down my list of poly examiners to three and will schedule her appointment within the next week or two (truth - I'm not crazy about following through with the Poly thing, but part of me feels it's a necessary step). Anyway, once we establish she's maintained NC since what she told me, as well as a few other questions, perhaps we should try MC at least as a way to start discussing our ability to communicate and deal with the issues before us. I did say what you all said, which is that it wouldn't be for us to move forward or anything, but a more formal way to discuss issues and communicate better, so we can focus on those things at home. But even before we start MC, we need to do a better job of talking to each other. She asked me how I can talk to her. I must hate the sight of her. That it must kill me to be in the same house as her. And I said, "Honestly? Sometimes." But I then lifted her hands and said I'm still here though. And that I don't want to hate her. And there are plenty of times that I feel tremendous love for her, even still. But it's very confusing and that's one of the things I've been dealing with during IC. And perhaps during some of her IC sessions she can discuss how she should be acting around me, because what's been happening can't really be healthy.

And that segued into talking a bit about making sure she takes care of herself. Eating, exercising, socially. She understood the message, I'm just not sure how much she'll follow through. I'm going to discuss with her sister. Ny wife will listen to her. She agreed in principle about working again, but isn't ready for that yet.

In the end, she basically told me she's not going anywhere as long as I don't kick her out and that she'll do whatever she can (and she'll discuss with her IC) to show me who she really is - or at least who she's working on becoming. But that she so scared she'll screw it up and she's so worried how I'll react to her and maybe that one thing will be the straw that breaks my back. I told her maybe. She might be right. I can't promise anything. All I can do is tell her what I'm working towards and it's not what she's saying. And that she shouldn't worry about how I'll react. She should do whatever she thinks or is told by her IC that I need to heal. I suggested she take her cues from me, and that she should understand that as she tries different things, I might react differently to them - some good and others not so good, but if I know they are all coming from a place of love and her trying to help me heal, well, that helps.

One other topic - sex. She didn't mention it, but I could tell it's been on her mind. I guess a part of any healthy relationship is intimacy and we don't have any now. I had a hard enough time holding her hands. The thought of hugging or anything beyond is unfathomable right now. But am I impeding progress if I don't? Would I react badly if I push myself? I don't know. Something else to discuss at IC, I guess.

You're going to get a lot of conflicting information about when to reintroduce sex back into the relationship, and there's only one right answer - when you want to. Everyone is different. Some couples enter into hysterical bonding shortly after Dday, some don't. Do what feels right for you. The only caveat is don't have too many expectations of how things should be. Be gentle on yourself. You could always try introducing non-sexual affection first and see how that goes.

Thanks for the update, it seems a positive one.

I think before engaging in sex, whenever that will be, it's imperative that you two have a frank discussions where you warn her that you might trigger and everything that might follow from that for both you and her.

I also think it'd be better to slowly work your way up to sex, so maybe start with holding her hands more often, then hugging, then spooning in bed, then kissing,... That way, it will be easier, I think, than to jump straight to full-on sex.

Bro-hugs and best wishes!

[This message edited by HobbesTheTiger at 5:20 AM, September 20th (Sunday)]

Now you saw first hand what I meant about your wife walking on eggshells.....

You handled it well.

And nme1 is spot on about the sex. When you feel like it. When you want it.

IMHO I think you both need it. But all in good time.

And what house does not have drama with girls in it....

Keep moving forward. You are doing great. Get the poly out of the way. It will just confirm what you already know.

HM

And that I wanted to see if she could be the person I need her to be so that I feel safe with her that I'd want to reconcile.

You say this often and I think the same thing every time I see it: it isn't a matter of who your wife can BE, it's a matter of who she IS.

The super cleaning of the house is an example. She's trying to BE the best housekeeper in the world, to extremes. If she keeps that up she will burn herself out on the "role" she is playing as holly homemaker.

I think you kind of addresses it with her when you told her she needed to try and behave normally around you - I just wanted to give you a little mental check in to make sure you are in the headspace of making decisions from what the norm is going to be, not this jacked up version of your wife that you seem to have going on. Well- that she seems to have going on. It's probably semantics, but I wanted to throw it out there.

As for the sex, if you can barely stand to hold her hands right now I don't see how sex would have *any* chance at having a positive outcome right now. No need to set yourself up for failure.

You're doing fine, W. Trust yourself.

(((W)))

Great update. Progress rather than perfection. Continued prayers.

I don't think it's too soon for MC, provided you can find one who is well versed in infidelity. And even then, know that you guys may not always agree with him/her and be willing to speak up if that happens.

For example, once our MC said that while nothing about our marriage "caused" the infidelity, there may have been things about it that "contributed" to it happening. FWH spoke up and said...nope, no way, it was needless and completely my fault. MC dropped that line of thought and never revisited. But it was still helpful as it prompted several discussions between us on the topic. And it was also healing for me to hear him say that out loud to someone. So, while on the one hand you have to be open and kind of trust the process, realize that MC is not the unerring voice of wisdom on every topic.

We discussed our fears/expectations ahead of time and even made a "rule" that we would not bring up anything in MC that we had not already brought up to each other. This way neither of us would feel "ambushed" or "tattled on" and MC would remain a safe place. We usually mention the things we want to talk about on the way there (if we haven't already) and debrief on the way home. Really, the discussions on the way home (50 min drive) were often more helpful than the session itself.

So, working with a professional really did help us navigate through all the devastation. I really wanted R, but didn't really see how it was possible and she helped give us some direction.

As to the sex, I wouldn't rush it. We did the whole HB thing, but many times had to stop bc I would start to cry. It was bonding, but it may have been better to wait.

Good luck.

TheClimb - just wanted to thank you for your post. it makes me feel normal and also gives me a sense of what might be coming my way. Thanks.

nekorb - You are so right. I say it a lot because I think it a lot and that's because I thought I knew who she was. Now I don't know who she is. The person I thought I knew couldn't do what she did yet here I am. So maybe it's not who she can be, but be finding out who she really is. In my thinking, and it seems I think if nothing else, if we move forward together, I don't want this brushed aside. This is part of her and I believe she needs to accept her capacity for this and address it, and figure out she can take steps to ensure it doesn't occur again. Constant vigilance vs. I'm not the type of person who can do this. Anyway, this is my simple way of saying I don't know who she is anymore.

As for sex, I'm not ready. I know this. Heck, I think I've been embarrassingly open about just how not ready I am. And no, no change. Still dead. I guess my question is should I force the issue. Am I doing something, or not as that's more the case, that will impede our ability to forge a closer emotional connection. Perhaps baby steps is the answer instead of full blown. I'm just concerned that I'm keeping her at an emotional distance- for legitimate reasons - but couples need intimacy and I know she'd want to but I don't know if I could handle it. But by not engaging am I being unfair? To her ability to connect with me? To us?

Weird thought - just popped in - for the Womenz - sex. She went from 2-3 times a week with POS and 2-3 time a week with me, to nothing. Cold Turkey. It's been 7 weeks. Shouldn't she be going through withdrawal or something? Serious question. I mean, so have I but I've obviously got some screwed up emotional or physical issue related to the trauma of all of this. What about her? Maybe I should post this in the ask a WS thread...but I'm wondering what my imposed abstinence is doing to her? Or perhaps she's taken things into hand, so to speak.

Walloped, I'm just going to jump in to answer your question about sex and withdrawal from a woman's perspective.

While there is no way I'm defending her, I think a tiny piece of empathy is warranted. Though she might jump at the chance to be intimate physically with you, I doubt that it's something she "needs" right now. Maybe emotionally she would welcome it, but I believe that she is probably somewhat numb herself and doesn't crave sex like couples who aren't going through this Hell.

As a BS myself, I think that you have to get through the initial shock before you can let yourself get to that kind of intimacy. With that being said, my WH and I have had HB, but only time will tell whether that was the right course for us.

Just keep taking one day at a time.

I agree with the others that sex should start when you feel like you want to. Forcing yourself to do it without you being ready could result in performance issues and then even longer self doubt and more performance issues. The best would be when you feel comfortable enough around her to NOT THINK at all about it and just let it happen (i.e. without necessarily planning it). She may or may not feel like having sex (psychologically she may not feel desirable now and feel disgusted with herself, as her repeated comments to you suggest). She may want to have sex with you now only because she wants to "make it right" but not necessarily because she feels the actual desire. Yes, she was having a lot more sex during the affair but she was not feeling as bad about herself as she has expressed it to you lately. I would still say that it is best to let "it" happen when it happens and when you feel the actual desire to re-connect at that level. Otherwise you may end up resenting her and yourself for forcing yourself to do something you don't really want to do...

Walloped

I noticed you have many statements and questions here concerning your wife. When you state them here do you talk to you wife with these statements/questions?

I know you both and the family are going through a lot, but it really is the best time to start communicating, to re-start the bonding process.

Your wife is a different person in your eyes and you are to her. You both have a great past/family.

There is more from the past about your wife, it just was not because of not helping with the wedding. There were far more things going on.

You both need to find out when it started and what started all of this. The wedding seemed to be the tip of the iceberg! The jumping off point.

Wal, she is trying. my ex never did! she was bad!

You wife is trying! She does not what to do, she needs the "MAN" to lead her. Be more positive! Be more open! Your both adults. does she love you? Is she "IN LOVE" with you? and you the same. Do you love her? Are you still "In Love" with her?

Do you want to be with her to the very end? Sounds like she does, from what you tell us. She did wrong. She knew what she was doing. She got caught up with it.

Just start over start talking, go on a date, hold hands, have both of you laugh a little, she is still a women and wants to feel important, pretty and sexy.

Then you can see how she is and who she is. But right now you both are at the wrong ends. she is feeling like crap, depressed etc. and you your not sure about anything, trust faithful.

It is going to take a long time but if you both open up and ask questions and talk it will be better. Read all of your postings with the statements and questions you have and ask he, talk to her.

Your both still at the house, not you or her wants one of you out of the house. You both did stuff that started all of this. Talk, communicate!

I think that W is doing the perfectly correct thing and is frankly probably more than she 'deserves' - he's betting his lunch money against house odds.

With that said, strategically i think it might make sense to get you and her on different turf. It's like in a meeting when folks aren't getting anywhere, sometimes going out for a walk or breaking for lunch. I don't think taking her out for dinner is a reward, but it might just be a way to chew on the problem from a different side of the mouth

Eric - Yes. And don't think I'm unaware that that's exactly what I'm doing. But I've stated what I want, and that I want to see if it could happen and she's constantly looking for me to open a crack in the door. In the interim, she's been working on herself through IC and exercises, etc. as well as just being present for the kids. So I feel since I've laid it out there to her, told what we can try to do, and she's cautiously following my lead, it's almost incumbent upon me to follow up on it and put more of myself out there so to speak.

Good suggestion re: change of venue.

I am in the minority it looks, but I say waiting till you "feel" your ready is like saying I'll go back to school, change jobs, clean, whatever when I "feel" I'm ready. If we waited to do something based on when we feel like it for the majority of us we'd always be waiting. The second, if you want change Wallop both you and your W need to get out of your comfort zones and do something. This is true in any business and or personal relationship. I think you understand that right now you and your W are what my therapist would call, "roommates." That's what you guys are now.