SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Man, get access to those devices like yesterday- at any cost.

I'm the first person to say do everything to obtain full transparency and honesty from your wife. You're not getting that yet, and it sounds like you have some semblance of a plan to get there, better that than nothing.

Let me throw out an idea that I believe you should consider:

Your wife has thrown your daughters into the middle of this issue. You NEED to be the bigger person (yes, I know there is a thread titled exactly that) and not continue, encourage, or do anything to them that will hurt them or traumatize them further, even at the expense of (likely temporary) making you look worse. Your children are more important than your marriage. That doesn't mean you stay married for them, but it does mean that you do everything to prevent them from being damaged further. Your wife is hurting them by dragging them into the middle of this crisis. Don't join the enemy on this front.

[This message edited by Didact at 1:38 PM, April 27th (Monday)]

I want to say how sorry I am that she has been treating you like this after you found out. I have several things I want to say and will start with the most important.

I agree with the emails are most likely gone. All web based as they say, she can log in from any where and all is deleted and maybe even secret accounts. A note for all here. I have a free standing email in which I access cable company email plus web based accounts all in the stand alone account (It is Thunderbird). Existing emails stored there can also be deleted from cable company accounts via another computer and when you start the application, the emails will disappear before your very eyes as it syncs with the cable company online. Another reason to check the emails with the computer not being allowed to be online. I know this because I accidentally did it to myself and I am not exactly sure why and how, but I think I may know. I saw 2 years of email disappear from my own account. I logged into the cable company and it was gone from there also. I believe it was because I had logged into the email accidentally while messing with old laptop and stopped the email from downloading onto it so now it is no where at all. I agree an IT person can check for pictures documents etc and for anything that she deleted from the computer before you got it in your possession. As to a phone, I know so little about those, but maybe if you put it in airplane mode before checking anything, it won't sync up and things disappear. I do know you should check in the photos and documents there and maybe those IT techs can also know away to check for deleted info.

About her most recent activities. Her involving everyone she can except the family dog is out there almost like the WS and AP do to the OBS making you seem like you are totally off your rocker and crazy. It is to make her seem ultra credible and you as some raving lunatic that is spouting unbelievable garbage. Her not giving up the passwords is so she can have enough time to erase all she can and keep you preoccupied so she can turn everyone against you and then keep you trying to defend yourself against them. Her offer of taking the polygraph is also suspicious to me. She can offer all she wants in hopes that by being so "honest and agreeable" will keep you from ever having her do it especially after you can't find any evidence because she has successfully gotten rid of it. She will just say, Honey, there is no evidence, let's just save the money and forego a useless test. I also wonder about her bringing your anger into this as she did. Will she try to get domestic charges against you? After all, you have been so crazy and angry at nothing and she is so afraid.

I honestly think she is not sorry she did this and is actively trying to show how awful you are for even having the idea that she may have done anything more than text another man.

I really hope you are taking care of yourself and think also about eventually getting your daughters into counseling after this as you wife has done so much damage to them by bringing them into this. I think if you decide to divorce or stay is your choice and should have been done by you and you alone. I hope your wife has not damaged your relationship with them too much. Counseling may help you repair the relationship and guide you in whether to share information with them or not.

I'm so angry for you. You've had your wife, your daughters, and your neighbor dismiss your feelings as if you're over-reacting. You must feel like everyone you know is ganging up on you. How dare your wife pretend she loves you? This is all about her and damage control. You described this wonderful woman in the beginning but I really don't think she exists. This woman is so manipulative it's pretty obvious she can put on a good act as long as she always gets her way. The minute she doesn't she's the victim. And boy, is she good at finding saviors.

I think you're going to find out your wife has been manipulating for a very long time. Screw waiting on counseling. The counselor will be in her corner and will spend three sessions getting you to believe you're unreasonable in asking for passwords. Your wife already knows the counselor's position, I guarantee it. Hack that shit now. What's the worst that can happen? According to the lawyer, you're screwed anyway. You should hack it to find out if you're screwed AND you need STD testing. Once you get your info, you could go to the counseling sessions to see if she's actually going to keep her end of the bargain. Go in already knowing and you won't feel like you're being victimized by yet another of your wife's saviors no matter what the counselor says. For once, take control of the outcome. Stop letting your wife manipulate you and everyone else around you. This is just sick and twisted. Put a stop to it.

And as for your neighbor, shame on your wife. I understand maybe talking to a friend but the minute one of my husband's friends tries to tell me what to do in my marriage, I'd slam the door in his face or walk away. Then I'd tell my husband that if anyone else approaches me with one-sided marital advice, the marriage really will be one sided. Your wife must tell one hell of a sob story.

Done, I wouldn't be surprised if your neighbor was having something going on with your wife, either now or in the past. We've seen crazier...

Just want to bring up that you owe NO ONE any proof or reason to D if you are not convinced. The burden of proof is on her. Yes, the opposite of our justice system which attempts to CONVICT. In the case of R. she is attempting to SELL you something, to convince you of something that is contrary to the evidence all ready presented, contrary to actions already known. She must sell you on her proposal to reconcile. R is already a VERY dubious proposition even in the best case scenarios. She needs to make the hard sell. YOU are the customer-not the neighbors, not your daughters. She needs to focus her spin campaign on YOU. If you are not sold, not convinced, you don't have to buy a thing. You can walk. Everyone can bitch about it but, tough shit. This is your call. This is between you and you alone. It's a very, very personal decision and everyone needs to butt out. Your kids are pretty much adults now and have their own lives. When they get knee deep in a relationship someday, they will understand and maybe-hopefully even respect and emulate YOUR conduct over that of your WW's.

All you need to tell anyone is that you have knowledge of events, and actions regarding your wife that are absolute unforgivable, irreconcilable deal breakers for YOU, and... (Pause for dramatic affect) you do not wish to discuss it because it is VERY personal and you have been deeply hurt and affected by what has happened. PERIOD

You owe no one any further explanation. The more discrete you are, less you say, leaves more to everyone's imagination. Silence can be deafening.

[This message edited by RealityBlows at 4:27 PM, April 27th (Monday)]

All you need to tell anyone is that you have knowledge of events, and actions regarding your wife that are absolute unforgivable, irreconcilable deal breakers for YOU, and... (Pause for dramatic affect) you do not wish to discuss it because it is VERY personal and you have been deeply hurt and affected by what has happened. PERIOD

You owe no one any further explanation. The more discrete you are, less you say, leaves more to everyone's imagination. Silence can be deafening.

^^^^this^^^^

DG, I've been following but not commenting on your situation for a while. But I had to come out of lurkdom to say, involving your kids? ..and even your neighbour? ....demanding MC sessions as a 'condition' - all rather than give you the passwords upfront? DG, it speaks for itself. The e-mails are bad and she's a manipulator. There is no other conclusion to be drawn.

What are your next steps ?

I have read through all of this, yet may have missed it. What about the phone records? Do you have access to them and maybe that can tell you how long they have had contact or is that how you know it has been at least 6 months?

Do the kids know about the motel part? I know I would not want to further involve children if it was me. But, I bet you just want to tell them, "Wait till this happens to you and then you will know where I am coming from."

nobody's perfect and I needed to just get over it.

I still can't stand to this day that statement. Yeah, nobody's perfect. But, you sure do not have to get over it when someone continues to manipulate you and lie. I swear that is the worst damn excuse a wayward can give. Still thinking about herself and just letting the whole world succumb to their selfishness and entitlement. The age old excuse that no one is perfect.

My comeback. "Girls, you are right and I will when there is full transparency and your mother stops acting like the victim here. I have every right to know just what happened and what it is I need to get over to its full extent." Yes we all make bad choices that lead to horrible mistakes, but the truth still needs to be exposed to the light or nothing will ever be fixed anyways.

Now, my opinion. I agree with many others. She is a master manipulator and I wouldn't be surprised that she was meeting up with the OM long before the coincidence fast food meeting. That is the only reason I see why she has refused to let you see the computer and phone (unless she fears you would hurt yourself over the stupid stuff these WS and APs say to each other about true love and crap). It will prove it is a lot deeper than it was. Just be careful she doesn't manipulate you into letting her have access to the computer. I sure hope it is in a safe place where your children and her can't get it.

I also found the neighbor's involvement in the whole issue very creepy. Unless you guys are the best of friends, why come to talk you down?

She is a master manipulator and I wouldn't be surprised that she was meeting up with the OM long before the coincidence fast food meeting.

Definitely. The odds that he happened to catch them the first time the two of them ate together at a restaurant he doesn't frequent and that is not part of his usual route is so remote. If that's true, he should start buying lottery tickets, fast.

Same thing with the hotel. The "one time" she goes to a hotel with another man, someone who knows them both happens to see her? Either she's the world's most indiscreet and incompetent cheater, or the unluckiest one who ever lived.

I don't mean to come off as insensitive, but it's clear that Gone is getting jerked around here by someone who's pretty good at it. It's a tough thing to realize that our WS may not be who we think they are.

[This message edited by Sal1995 at 4:42 PM, April 28th (Tuesday)]

It's hard to see this now when you are so fresh into this and still processing the trauma that the A creates in your life, but I hope my 3 year distance from my dday can offer a more detached perspective here.

What you will struggle with in the next several years will not be the details that are found on those devices. And it won't be the actions she committed during the affair. It will be the lying, hiding, manipulating, and twisting of the relationships with your daughters that will eat you up. Ask yourself, does it matter if anything is even left to be found out about the A? The OM is not your problem. The A is not your problem (as hard as that is to believe). Your WW is the problem. She can see with her own two eyes that you are hurt and in need of healing and she is choosing to hurt you, keep things from you to protect herself, and even hurting her girls. She is hurting your relationship with them to further her own agenda. Can you forgive that? Even if you find out there is nothing on the cell or the laptop. Even if she didn't have sex with him. Even if she passes a lie detector. Can you forgive her abusive behavior that she is currently engaging in? That's the position that you have to make your decisions from. You cannot R with her because she is way too messed up to be a good wife right now. Maybe after years of therapy and heartfelt apologies and repairs to these extraneous relationships...but that may never happen. I wish you strength while you deal with this. No matter what, you are NOT CRAZY. You are NOT OVERREACTING. Don't let anyone make you question those too things.

And a quick note about spousal support. If you divorce, the judge will decide if she is capable of making a living wage and if not, she'll get a little money for a little while. My mother was a SAHM for 20 years and got spousal for 2 years and that was with my sister still in high school and my mother in remission for breast cancer. Your children are all over the age of 18 so she is no longer a SAHM. She is just unemployed. She doesn't want to work. She wants your money and for you to cover for her deteriorating reputation. You don't have to out her. But you do need to take care of yourself.

Actually, while I was reading that I was thinking that your wife might of thought you had a PI following her and that is why she high tailed it out of the Motel and was acting so strange on the phone.

Stilltrying11: is so right on. Just the manipulation after Dday is what is going to get you. Even worse, is what you allowed while in shock. It takes some time to get over the regret and the fact that you continued to overlook the manipulation.

[This message edited by hopefulmother at 9:12 PM, April 28th (Tuesday)]

What you will struggle with in the next several years will not be the details that are found on those devices. And it won't be the actions she committed during the affair. It will be the lying, hiding, manipulating, and twisting of the relationships with your daughters that will eat you up. Ask yourself, does it matter if anything is even left to be found out about the A? The OM is not your problem. The A is not your problem (as hard as that is to believe). Your WW is the problem. She can see with her own two eyes that you are hurt and in need of healing and she is choosing to hurt you, keep things from you to protect herself, and even hurting her girls. She is hurting your relationship with them to further her own agenda. Can you forgive that? Even if you find out there is nothing on the cell or the laptop. Even if she didn't have sex with him. Even if she passes a lie detector. Can you forgive her abusive behavior that she is currently engaging in? That's the position that you have to make your decisions from.

This.

Great post by stilltrying.

I'm not in your shoes, but from my point of view, her behaviour after the A alone would make me divorce her.

How have you been feeling lately?

Best wishes!

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HI guys, sorry I haven’t checked in sooner but a lot has been going on and a lot has happened. I really appreciate your comments and please believe me when I say they have been my compass to lead me through this storm. They are the light in this tunnel. I do not say these things lightly. I have sat down to update my post several times this week, but, take my word, the stuff I was writing was bad and coming from a dark place and probably incoherent to a large degree.

We had our first MC on Wednesday and you would not believe how I have misconstrued and blown all out of proportion this entire ordeal. It turns out that I am a bad guy and a bully and the main issue is not my WW's infidelity at all. The problem is my anger. Yea right!

I VAR’d the entire session and my intentions have been to share some choice moments with you guys. I’ve been regarding that little recorder all week like it was the devil itself. As far as I am concerned there is some very toxic stuff inside it. I finally summoned enough courage to listen to it again last night. Quite obviously MC has bought into everything WW has quite obviously been telling her. Before the session was half over I thought ‘you are going to have to wipe me off this floor.’

Have you ever fought about a position you had with another person and you simply couldn’t figure out why they just could not agree with you or at the very least, understand your point of view? My arguments were so obvious and so darn right. At one point I asked MC, “What is the matter with you? Can’t you see that I am right?” MC basically adhered to the principle that things are as they are and assigning blame would not be a productive path to healing. Principles of right and wrong do exist and I do not understand how ignoring them can be a healthy path to follow.

I admit, I do not have the tools to cope and it is amazing where I get my strength; from you guys.

Here is email I received on Wednesday evening after MC from WW.

Oh, I am an emotional wreck and so terribly sad and sorry for betraying your love and trust in me. The amount of regret and remorse I feel is impossible to convey. I have also betrayed myself and everything I have ever believed in. I cannot tell you how ridiculous I feel and how scared I am that I will not get the chance to prove that I can ever be trusted again. I understand why you believe that you can never love me in the same way again, and I don’t blame you for hating me. I understand this, however painful, and I want you to know that I also hate myself. I want you to know how I punish myself over the horrific, soulless way I treated you. You have stated that you don’t think you will ever be able to forgive me. I can’t blame you. I am sure I will never be able to forgive myself either. I understand why you have accused me of playing avoidance games. I had a lot of hope pinned on our counseling session. Honey, my goal has not been to withhold truth from you as much as it has been to avoid confrontation. I can see where I was thinking mostly of myself and I am sorry if you interpret my coping mechanisms as delaying tactics and hurtful behavior. I promise, I have not deleted any items in the cell phone or tablet. I did not even know this was possible. It destroys me to know some of the things you are going to read and I told myself I was protecting you, but maybe I have been protecting myself. I totally panic when I think about you reading the disgustingly sick things I wrote. I did not mean any of it and I was totally out of mind. I will do whatever it takes to prove to how sorry and remorseful I am. My life is horrible without you.

The temptation to just give up is almost overpowering at times. It would be so easy to just say the hell with it and settle. My brain is the hold out. Heart and soul I love my wife and want my marriage. But my brain says, can’t do it. Doing something that your heart and soul fights you on is torture. I admit, she had me thinking ‘ maybe-kinda-sorta-‘ type of thoughts but as soon as my brain got some fresh oxygen it told me, oh hell no.

Western

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you talking about the one on my shoulders or the one on my head. Very perceptive of you.

Get a new MC for the remaining two sessions. This time, YOU pick the MC and you ensure it's a good one, 'cause this one isn't.

Best wishe!