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She told me she'll quit her job and if I want to move forward with the divorce she will not ask for spousal support or anything because she knows this is her fault.

It is hard to know what to believe at this stage.

If she quits her job, I would bet she will be asking for spousal support.

One danger is that she could be coached on how to manipulate you through the divorce. If you want to R, fine, let her quit her job. If you are going to D at this point, I don't think it wise that she quits her job.

I'm sensing some hesitancy to admit that you want to R. There is no shame in admitting that you love your wife and want to give R a chance. If that is the route you want to go, then you need to list all of the must haves so that you can tell her what you need for you to feel safe.

Top amongst them has to be:

1. Quit job.

2. Complete VERIFIABLE NC.

3. Open book (Access and passwords to EVERYTHING)

4. Accurate and complete timeline. (don't want to learn another detail months later)

5. Willingness to check in on her own, without thinking it's being controlling.

Ask your lawyer but in the post #1 GTR said they make similar income. If she has a history of steady employment there is really not a reason for spousal support to either person in a relatively short marriage (under 10 years). HEr adultery doesn't matter to the court if it's no fault state.

About quitting now or giving notice, I'd say quit now. She needs to feel some consequences - notice could be 2 weeks, but she could leave earlier by taking sick or vacay time.

Is she asking for guidance or still in fog, thinking she can do what she wants and you will go along?

Manual,

You have done GREAT taking the advice here. You are in the drivers seat, and you should be. At this stage though you need to start taking what you NEED from this forum, and focus on what YOU want. You have people shouting at you to run for the hills, start over fresh, and that no kids makes this an easy decision. You have others telling you the steps towards R. This is where you need to ask yourself what you want.

I personally believe that the wife that you have known all these years didn't simply vanish. All of the things you have done together, the ways you have been there for each other, the love you shared... it doesn't all cease to exist because she f*cked up. I don't personally believe that who she seemed to be was some extravagant lie for over a decade...

However, she DID screw up. Big time. Biggest possible way. She DID betray you. She DID demolish your wedding vows. She will never again be someone that isn't "capable" of cheating or betraying you at a level that is almost unthinkable. Doesn't matter if it was a slippery slope, hormones going wonky, problems in the marriage, etc. It still means she is forever capable of something like this again, unless she really tries hard to understand herself and what lead to this.

I can tell you that my amazingly compassionate and kind wife shocked me again and again with how uncaring she was during the first month. How focused she was on how this impacted her. How she has started to come out of the fog and I am seeing glimpses of the woman I used to know. It is all SO DAMN CONFUSING.

Anyway, point is, staying with your wife and attempting R or getting a divorce is COMPLETELY up to you. It is a very personal choice. Only you know what your marriage and relationship is worth now. Either way, no one on here will judge you. We all just want to make sure that you get what you want out of this, and get it the best way possible.

If you choose R, follow the advice of the community and hold her accountable.

If you choose D, don't let this define you. Find someone that has all the things you loved about your wife, and loyalty.

Consider divorcing and then dating her. Then you can see how she behaves. Not my first choice of action, but one you can consider. Then if you marry her again, you can get a pre-nup. I have heard of post-nups but I have never seen an actual case where they stood up in court. I didn't get a pre-nup when I married. I have some conflict as to whether I would advise my sons to get one. But for myself, I kind of wish I would have had one.

So basically it took you to filing for divorce for her to say she would do anything. What do you think of that? What happens if you tell her, take all the time you want, I'll be waiting and will take you back if you'll have me?

My point is, how much does she really love you vs. she is afraid of the uncertain future with him? Or she figures she can save now and decide later when she still has both options? The problem with her foot-dragging and only jumping off the fence is that it's hard to determine her motivation.

[This message edited by wk55hn at 11:15 AM, January 17th (Tuesday)]

Well I think she's in a panic stage to be completely honest. She's been panicking about certain stuff. To be honest I know she was never gonna leave me for him, she wanted to have her cake and eat it too she's also a coward. Someone mentioned her wanting his sperm to mate. He's like half my size. I wish I could knock him out but he's not worth it and neither is my wife.

I may be afraid to admit I want to renconcile buf I actually don't know if I want too. I have a wedding this week that she was supposed to attend with me but I let her know that she's not coming under any circumstance. I'm afraid of not having in my life to be honest, but I wouldn't want to be friends with her after this.

She brought up cards and pictures full of memories and how we should split those. I let her know that stuff doesn't matter to me anymore and I don't care. She was visibly hurt by the comment but I didn't let it bother me .

[This message edited by manualgtr at 12:36 PM, January 17th (Tuesday)]

[This message edited by manualgtr at 12:33 PM, January 17th (Tuesday)]

Her two nights with the Posom must have been a bit underwhelming........to say the least. Too bad she made the wrong pick and now wants a do over.

There are a lot of threads here that start with "my wife had an EA and didn't have sex." Now really, without reading another word, with knowing nothing of the situation then that, I could say it was not just EA, it was PA too" and I'd be right about 90% of the time.

So I'm setting you up with another 90% statement. If you put a voice-activated recorder in her car, I think you will find she is still in contact. I have ZERO evidence of that other than past threads with cheating wives who had "feelings" for the other man.

You already told her what you wanted for her to start fixing the marriage, and that was to go full NC on the OM and get a job elsewhere. She instead attempted to gaslight you into letting her remain friends with him. Just a few days after your D-day she goes full on PA with him and still tried to get you to believe otherwise and against her definition of cheating. I don't think she wanted to leave you for him either, but I think she wanted to have two men in her life for a long as she could get away with it or get you to warm up to that asshole so one day you two end up sharing a beer and working out a calendar on who gets bedtime with the shared wife.

The most concerning thing about your situation was the fact that you both were recently trying have a baby. Imagine what your hell would be if 10 years into the future with a child or two into the marriage and THEN you just found out about her affair. She was willing to put you in that situation to go scratch that curiosity itch.

Other than being a sttaight up sociopath know that the very first person a wayward betrays is their own self. Your wife did some major mental gymnastics to rationalize her decision to cheat over her standards and principles. Now you questions her effort to stay in the marriage is motivated by remaining in the comforts of the old marriage or if she is really choosing you. Only time and her actions will reveal that. You initially implied that her taking it to a PA is your deal breaker. That is relevant for a lot of good reasons, a big one with regard to having a child with someone who was so willing to put you below the OM on her list of priorities.

This chapter in your life will conclude on the fact that your old marriage is dead. If you decide to R your next chapter is about creating a new relationship. If it is D then it is about your new beginning. There are a LOT of chapters in your life to write and she doesn't necessarily need to be in your next chapter either. She could come back in a few chapters down the road. Point is, you do have options going forward and none of them should be based on feeling obligated to give her a second chance. You already did that. Your choice now should be based on what you really want out of life going forward. Will she fit in any of those plans? How do you want to spend the next YOUR 2 to 5 years?

There are a lot of threads here that start with "my wife had an EA and didn't have sex." Now really, without reading another word, with knowing nothing of the situation then that, I could say it was not just EA, it was PA too" and I'd be right about 90% of the time.

So I'm setting you up with another 90% statement. If you put a voice-activated recorder in her car, I think you will find she is still in contact. I have ZERO evidence of that other than past threads with cheating wives who had "feelings" for the other man.

Of course. (Just like 90% of WW don't use protection).

Manual, why would you stay with her when you don't have kids? Start over with someone better.

I may be afraid to admit I want to renconcile buf I actually don't know if I want too. I have a wedding this week that she was supposed to attend with me but I let her know that she's not coming under any circumstance. I'm afraid of not having in my life to be honest, but I wouldn't want to be friends with her after this.

Manual - Don't feel like you have to make a decision right now. I think you are right where you need to be. Sorting out your feelings about the M and doing it from a position of strength. You've been emotionally rocked. I don't think that is a good time to be making commitments either direction. Keep moving forward. You can always change your mind later, if she earns it.

Judging from the comment above, your feelings are all over the place. You've moved into a bit of the anger stage as well, which is good. You can feel however this makes you feel. Say whatever this makes you want to say. You have that right. You are allowed to not want anything to do with her, but also not want to have a life without her. Hell, if I D my WW it won't be because I have stopped loving her... it will be because I don't feel safe staying with her. You are allowed to both hate her, and love her. You are allowed to want nothing to do with her, and yet miss cuddling at night. You are allowed to not ever want to see or hear her voice again, and yet want her to call you and beg for every chance at R.

You can feel all of this at the same time, and it is NORMAL. Make the decision that is best for YOU, and don't feel you have to make it until you are damn good and ready.

Manual, as you may see, most cheating are extremely similar, often there are just a few nuances that differentiate.

You caught your wife. You think she never wanted to leave you to be with him. But then why didn't she not only end the affair, but rather ramped it up to sex after you found out?

Now, my outlook is that she had sexual interactions before that. So this was a continuation, not a ramping up.

But either way, you have a question - why did she ramp it up or why did she lie about the previous sexual contact. Of course, also it is possible that she was thinking of leaving you when she did that. That she thought she'd never get caught? Or she wanted him so bad, it was worth the risk? You are not in a position at this point to know those things of close to certain.

Also with risk, what about health risk? Are condoms foolproof? What % of times do they fail? It is a risk, even if relatively small.

Keep doing what you're doing and be short on talking and long on watching and listening.

I never understood the weight of this saying until I was cheated on and the professions of love that suddenly spilt out when she was caught..

Love should have brought your ass home last night.

The very fact that after being caught she still proceeded to bang him should be a dealbreaker, that she willingly, freely and eagerly allowed another man to take her while you knew about it voids any claim of love or remorse.

If they have the capacity for such blatant and wanton disregard and disrespect they should be shown none in return.

Well I think she's in a panic stage to be completely honest. She's been panicking about certain stuff. To be honest I know she was never gonna leave me for him, she wanted to have her cake and eat it too she's also a coward.

Your Shock and Awe combined with your aloofness (detached 180) is working to temporarily defog her enough that she's now thinking "WTF have I done."

I say the word temporarily because their affair is not over. She's in desperation mode but divorced douche will try to play captain save-a-hoe. Remember they were discussing her leaving you. That's what all her confusion was about.

She brought up cards and pictures full of memories and how we should split those. I let her know that stuff doesn't matter to me anymore and I don't care. She was visibly hurt by the comment but I didn't let it bother me .

That was a perfect response to her attempt to manipulate you with your history. Trying to make you think about "you're throwing away."

wk55hn said:

There are a lot of threads here that start with "my wife had an EA and didn't have sex." Now really, without reading another word, with knowing nothing of the situation then that, I could say it was not just EA, it was PA too" and I'd be right about 90% of the time.

So I'm setting you up with another 90% statement. If you put a voice-activated recorder in her car, I think you will find she is still in contact. I have ZERO evidence of that other than past threads with cheating wives who had "feelings" for the other man.

I too think she's probably trying to keep her options open and is probably still communicating with divorced douche.

Why do I think that? Because days after she was busted, instead of dialing it back, she takes the affair to the next level and has sex 2 days in a row. (which sounds like some serious down playing of the numbers.)

Yes - having sex with her boyfriend right after DD is a glaring issue. Typical behavior of someone who has SOME intention of reconciling is to atleast go into deep cover for atleast a short period after.

She didn't. She escalated it. It's beyond concerning

I wish I could knock him out but he's not worth it and neither is my wife.

Go find his ex-wife and contact her. I bet that will be a VERY interesting conversation. I have two friends that had been cheated on. They were the second husbands in their marriages. They went and talked with the first husbands after their own Dday. One friend found out his ex-wife also cheated in her first marriage. The details they shared were quite helpful in both their healing and closure The other friend found out that HE was the OM from his wife's first marriage and had no clue. He was told she was already divorced when in fact they had started dating while she was in MC with her first husband. Both friends say that their ex-wives behaved the same way in both marriages, followed the same cheater script. I recently learned that the former OBS, now divorced single mom, from my own situation had found out the guy she was dating after her divorce was actually not divorced either as he claimed. His wife contacted my former OBS and was enlightened of the real situation. He has 3 other ladies he's "dating". His current wife and OBS remained in contact and are becoming fast friends. The common result in all of these situations is the cheater gets VERY nervous when you talk to their ex's because YOU will find out the truth and can use it against them. You don't have to lay a single hand on him but you sure could fuck with his head. You never know that his ex-wife could be working on a custody modification case and you sharing that your WW went to his place twice might be useful information for her.

[This message edited by Jduff at 3:03 PM, January 17th (Tuesday)]

MGTR,

How was the balance of power in your relationship pre-A? Were decisions made jointly, did one of you generally defer to the other? More directly, did your wife always want to win the decision to be made, or always win an argument?

I ask because I see two instances of subtle manipulation on her part since you served her.

One has been pointed out already. That is the drama of bringing out the box of shared cards/memories.

The other dealt with her job. She brought up whether she should just quit or give notice instead. I don't see this as her deferring to you. I see it as her trying to keep that plate spinning in the air to buy time. There is some practicality about it for her as well. She's calculating that is makes no sense quitting her job if your are going to divorce her.

I don't see either of these episodes as a WW fighting for her married life.

I think she is much more skilled and savvy at navigating this than she should be.

You took charge (props to you for that) but I see her trying to dial back your power. Just be cautious at what you commit to at this early stage. You are still reeling. Your heart and mind need to be better aligned to be able to make good decision about your future.

Making no decisions right now is an acceptable decision to make. You're driving the train and you'll get to write the next chapters.

Keep in mind you are emotionally vulnerable right now. I expect she'll want to get you in bed again like she did before. Just be prepared for how you want to handle that.

Stay strong. Keep posting.

Manualgtr,

Plenty here are cheering for you to keep swinging the battle axe. It's your choice. I only would like to offset the chant by saying I hope you follow your business/parental/logical mind rather than be misguided by a torn heart and ego. I know it hurts, and it was unfair, but you must also be careful. Some things cannot be undone, including some of the choices you will need to make.

In my opinion, based on what you are saying and the time frames, the fog was cleared by serving the papers. However, stopping the affair is just scratching the surface. There is so much more to correct with your wife's world view should you successfully recover together.

My wife and I were also high school sweethearts. Please read my profile. You might find something in common.

Godspeed.