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Wife confessed to affair from before marriage

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 CantBeMe123 (original poster member #67709) posted at 12:56 PM on Thursday, January 31st, 2019

@Sebulba - thanks for sharing your story an for the support. I've definitely had temptations to pretend like my "almost affair" went further than it did, I think I even did pretend that once (I can't really remember the first few days post d-day). It's amazing how badly we just want our WW to "get it", and I think early they experience their own pain much more acutely than they can empathize with ours.

@HoP - well said.

@marriageredux - I appreciate the empathy and your thoughts on what helped you disassociate yourself from your H's selfishness. I try to do the same thing, but I get stuck in the feelings you described of, "it HAS to be about me, we were living together and supposedly madly in love and you went out and fucked someone else." Even if it's not "about me", it makes it hard to believe that her love for me back then was anywhere close to mine for her, or even that it was real love for me and not just a selfish love of how I made her feel. I try to focus on what matters is if her love is real today, because no matter what it was back then, we are where we are today and that's what matters. And I do feel like she loves me deeply today.

@mflm - Nothing in this thread is a secret from my wife, she's known my feelings well before all of you. I've told her that, yes, I have had this nagging feeling for years of wanting sex with someone else, and I always suppressed it as an invasive thought to be ignored and part of my insecurity. Her A disclosure has made it bubble up and explode in strength within my head. I don't think I can ignore it anymore without it constantly reminding me of her A and breeding resent. If you think that is me "excusing it", so be it but I don't feel that way. More like her A catalyzed it.

Me - BH
Her - WW ("Flawed" on SI)

D-Day 1: March 2006: "We were drunk and we kissed."
D-Day 2: Oct 2018 (12 years later): She voluntarily confessed - It was actually PA that lasted 2-3 months.

posts: 192   ·   registered: Nov. 1st, 2018   ·   location: NC
id 8322054
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Fife ( new member #55881) posted at 1:39 PM on Thursday, January 31st, 2019

I tend to lurk and not post, but this thread has grabbed me and tossed me around. I cannot remain silent. Mods and beloved friends here, if I go to far, let me know.

I really can't believe that one can offer up cheating on their spouse as a therapeutic way to deal with their WS's infidelity.

I really can't grasp it.

Sure, dishonor yourself because someone else was dishonorable at point(s) in time in the past. Make sure that you get all the details of that prior infidelity. Maybe you can replicate it perfectly, down to every dirty, miserable, detail. Pay extra for every depraved act that you can imagine. I recommend recording those acts, perhaps as a surprise. Have it playing on TV when she gets home, "See! Look what you've done!".

In dealing with "escorts", I've found that the vast majority are the most miserable people in the world, most of them only doing what they do because they could see no alternative, or because they were/are victimized themselves. So, by all means, contribute to their ongoing misery as well. They're guilty too, right? Make sure that you get yourself tested for STDs afterwards, because regardless if you use "protection" or not, you can still catch something that stays with you for the rest of your life. Yes, believe it or not, diseases don't respond to "reason".

Better yet, don't use protection. Make sure that she knows that you didn't, because she probably didn't. You want her to feel like you. Go all the way.

All the pain and suffering that you feel now, go ahead and be the one who grits his teeth and does unto another what they did to you. Let her feel your pain. Let her know that you're not the honorable one, that you're not any better than her. Maybe you can grudge fuck her, leave her bruised and bloody, because by cheating out of revenge, to "show her how it feels", is practically the same thing, only the bloody bruising is on the inside, and you're be the perp this time around.

You won't be any better than her. You'll be worse than her, because you know exactly what the emotional toll will be, whereas, the WS most likely didn't when she committed her dirty deed(s).

You'll be a cheater as well, worthy of nothing more than what the lowest common denominator in your lives together allows. When you cheat, remember how "easy" it is, that way, if this relationship survives, or it doesn't, the next time you cheat out of whatever rationalization you make to do so, it will be that much easier.

Honor is not dependent on the actions of others. Honor comes from inside, perhaps even from a higher power. You'll carry dishonor with you for the rest of your life, because dishonor affects the one who practices it more anyone else it harms.

As for assuming that everyone can cheat, no, not everyone can cheat. YOU may be capable of cheating, but many of us are not... ever. It raises questions of character that one could think that. It comes from one's frame of reference. A thief who loses something, always assumes that it is stolen, because they are a thief and they steal. Do you think that because you were stolen from, you have a right to steal as well, and not be called a thief?

It's insulting to imply that everyone can cheat... that it's easy to cheat. I will never cheat. It is an absolute, not because I experienced the pain of infidelity. That is irrelevant to my personal code of conduct. I will never cheat because I will never allow myself to be in a situation where infatuation rules me. I remove myself from those situations before any opportunity presents itself. When I was married, I avoided those situations, and those situations were always around the corner, as my position of authority and the seriousness that I took towards making my physical and intellectual self the best it could be made me a prime target. Regardless, "never cheating" is easy. A potential OP never senses any interest from me. An aggressive one gets put aggressively in their place. There are many chances to avoid the path of cheating before infidelity occurs, EMOTIONAL or PHYSICAL. It all starts with a thought. One perpetually works on mastering their mind first. Fidelity favors the prepared mind.

R or don't R, but wallowing in filth and saying "See! Look what you've done! See how it feels!", still leaves YOU covered in filth, and like many things, the first time is the hardest. It becomes easier to do again afterwards. The next time, your rationalization of dishonor may harm the innocent. Your honor or dishonor follows YOU wherever you go, like it or not.

posts: 40   ·   registered: Nov. 2nd, 2016
id 8322068
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DIFM ( member #1703) posted at 3:56 PM on Thursday, January 31st, 2019

I really can't believe that one can offer up cheating on their spouse as a therapeutic way to deal with their WS's infidelity.

I really can't grasp it.

CBM123 explained well how it is not cheating to him. His position is that cheating inherently involves deception and lies, which I think most would agree with. He explained that since he is being honest and not engaging in deception, to him it is not cheating.

Whether it is healthy or a positive thing to do is another issue.

[This message edited by DIFM at 10:04 AM, January 31st (Thursday)]

posts: 1757   ·   registered: Jul. 14th, 2003
id 8322141
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manfromlamancha ( member #47894) posted at 4:57 PM on Thursday, January 31st, 2019

@mflm - Nothing in this thread is a secret from my wife, she's known my feelings well before all of you. I've told her that, yes, I have had this nagging feeling for years of wanting sex with someone else, and I always suppressed it as an invasive thought to be ignored and part of my insecurity. Her A disclosure has made it bubble up and explode in strength within my head. I don't think I can ignore it anymore without it constantly reminding me of her A and breeding resent. If you think that is me "excusing it", so be it but I don't feel that way. More like her A catalyzed it.

This still sounds like:

* You had more experience than I did with sex (tough - you should have thought of this before getting married);

* I want to sleep with someone else for the experience but I don't want to open up the marriage for you (really!?!?)

* I want a FMF threesome but not the other way round AND

* Now that you have confessed I am going to use this big time.

And what about you wanting revenge else why mention that you have a "vindictive side" and want to "balance things"?

None of this is acceptable and anyone encouraging you to go ahead is not giving you the best advice. Either end this marriage or commit to it (i.e. commit to marriage). If I was @Flawed I would consider this marriage either open or ended if you went ahead with this.

posts: 381   ·   registered: May. 15th, 2015   ·   location: UK
id 8322171
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DIFM ( member #1703) posted at 5:22 PM on Thursday, January 31st, 2019

When the one you trust the most in life does something to you to make you feel like this....

I feel like I am living someone else's life. I know I would have broken up with her at the time if I knew the truth, so my life feels completely off track and like a parallel universe....I feel like I'm dying inside each day and becoming an empty shell. I feel like no one understands how I feel. And I feel so unfairly punished - I did nothing wrong,

.....it makes you think about all kinds of things you never ever thought you would think before. I find nothing odd or unusual about what this trauma has caused CBM to think about.

He has done nothing. All he has done is express the pain his wife caused in ways that someone in trauma might express them.

Time will tell of any action comes from his current pain filled state of mind, or not.

posts: 1757   ·   registered: Jul. 14th, 2003
id 8322189
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manfromlamancha ( member #47894) posted at 5:49 PM on Thursday, January 31st, 2019

Well according to him he has been expressing his need to sleep with someone else well before this pain! So yes there is something wrong here! He wants to gain more sex experience while married.

This painful confession came after his need for sleeping with someone else (with his wife's approval albeit) and that is something he needs to deal with.

posts: 381   ·   registered: May. 15th, 2015   ·   location: UK
id 8322208
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DIFM ( member #1703) posted at 6:14 PM on Thursday, January 31st, 2019

This painful confession came after his need for sleeping with someone else (with his wife's approval albeit) and that is something he needs to deal with.

He does appear to have had these thoughts/feelings for years, and given that he has not acted on them, it seems he as successfully and appropriately dealt with them. We all have thoughts or desires when in a marriage. What matters is how we manage or deal with them. Kudos to him for doing the right thing in that matter.

The shitstrom of trauma his wife has added to the mix has caused the torment he is going through in considering how to "deal" with things going forward.

He is trying to figure out what "dealing" means now that he knows what he did not previously know about lies and betrayal. It is sad and deeply disheartening that his wife created this psychological dilemma for him, where it did not exist before.

posts: 1757   ·   registered: Jul. 14th, 2003
id 8322227
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 CantBeMe123 (original poster member #67709) posted at 6:56 PM on Thursday, January 31st, 2019

Thank you DFIM for providing some support and background to what have been a few very disappointing posts. I am not sure why people want to attack me so badly over this, I suppose because it is triggering for some BS, but why even ready this then? Just close your browser tab and move on.

Fife - I know you are a BS and in pain from some recent horrible discoveries; I wish you the best and hope you find happiness post-divorce. I don't appreciate your attack and don't understand the need to push your ideals of honor on me. You and I obviously have different ideas on this (you frankly seem obsessed about it), and you are welcome to your own opinions but they are not universally shared. There are ways to state your opinion which don't come off as attacking and pretentious.

You even said in another post:

I believe that there are perfectly healthy marriages that go way outside the norms, but that's not for me.

I would ask you to "honor" your own statement and consider that if two married adults consent to something, and it works in their marriage and it allows them to remain happily married, that it can be OK even if you don't personally subscribe to the idea.

In addition, with regards to temptation, you said:

my position of authority and the seriousness that I took towards making my physical and intellectual self the best it could be made me a prime target.

That comes across very self-aggrandizing. We all deal with temptation, no matter looks or intellect or anything else, and we all deal with it in different ways. When you say

YOU may be capable of cheating, but many of us are not... ever.

I would respond by saying that probably 95% of WS felt EXACTLY the same way, before they cheated. Very few people, if any, enter a committed relationship thinking they're going to be a cheater.

I'm just acknowledging I'm an imperfect human just like everyone else, you included. Your imperfections may be in other areas, but no one is perfect all the time. I haven't cheated on my wife not because I am unable, but because I set boundaries (poor boundaries, to be fair, but still) and followed them.

Me - BH
Her - WW ("Flawed" on SI)

D-Day 1: March 2006: "We were drunk and we kissed."
D-Day 2: Oct 2018 (12 years later): She voluntarily confessed - It was actually PA that lasted 2-3 months.

posts: 192   ·   registered: Nov. 1st, 2018   ·   location: NC
id 8322244
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jlg05 ( member #58880) posted at 7:22 PM on Thursday, January 31st, 2019

CBM, just a couple of quick points.

A. You should think about how having sex with an escort will affect the WAY YOU THINK ABOUT YOURSELF.

You are curious to have sex with someone else, I get that, and your wife may feel some of your pain, OK with that also.

Please think about this: how will you feel about YOURSELF after doing that? Will you still be able to deal with yourself, knowing that you did this, knowing that you broke your wedding vows. I am NOT trying to preach -- just want you to think about if doing this would affect YOUR view of yourself. You sound very PROUD (rightfully) that you did NOT cheat, even though close, that you have supressed the want to have sex with other women. If you do this, you won't be able to be proud of that anymore. Just think about it.

b) I think if you DO this, having your wife there would be a bad idea. I think that FANTASIES about multiple partners, 3-ways, 4-ways, more... are fine for fantasies, but IN GENERAL, making them realities is an AWFUL idea and usually destroys the relationship. Is your wife into women? If so, it might work. BUT if you do that, in your view of justice, what if she then says she always wanted 2 guys? I wouldn't open pandora's box here.

posts: 51   ·   registered: May. 22nd, 2017
id 8322250
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 CantBeMe123 (original poster member #67709) posted at 7:39 PM on Thursday, January 31st, 2019

Good points jlg, and others have raised this as well. I do find that when I actually think through the reality of what it would be like to pursue this, it would probably make me feel worse and not better. At this point, I am ready to move on to other "ideas" or just continue to work on overcoming the urge through IC and such.

I actually had IC today and talked through it for an hour with her and had some good, productive thoughts. She concurs that my issue stems from dissatisfaction with my sexual activity before meeting my wife and insecurities born from that. She thinks the issue is that rather than confront the truth that I was not satisfied with my sexual experiences before commitment, I instead basically rug-swept the issue and pushed it down whenever thoughts about it came up. My wife's A has basically pulled the rug out, and now I need to really address it one way or the other. We're going to keep focusing our time there.

Finally, I want to put an end to the endless back-and-forth between the two "factions" about the idea of what constitutes cheating/infidelity. I am going to post a thread in General and ask that people stop using my thread to debate the point. I think it's gotten out of hand.

Me - BH
Her - WW ("Flawed" on SI)

D-Day 1: March 2006: "We were drunk and we kissed."
D-Day 2: Oct 2018 (12 years later): She voluntarily confessed - It was actually PA that lasted 2-3 months.

posts: 192   ·   registered: Nov. 1st, 2018   ·   location: NC
id 8322258
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Fife ( new member #55881) posted at 8:35 PM on Thursday, January 31st, 2019

I'm not attacking you, CantBeMe123. I'm simply pointing out that your proposed course of action is self-defeating, destructive, and will harm you more than anyone else.

I empathize with you. I sincerely do. I've lurked here ever since my encounter with infidelity. I also deal with the consequences of people's poor decisions in life on a daily basis. Nothing good can come out of your plan.

I have no right to tell you what you can and cannot do. All that I can do is state my opinion, and my opinion is, no matter what happens to your relationship, in the end, you still have to live with yourself.

Do what you feel you need to do, but please think it all through again.

[This message edited by Fife at 2:36 PM, January 31st (Thursday)]

posts: 40   ·   registered: Nov. 2nd, 2016
id 8322288
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Bigheart2018 ( member #63544) posted at 9:00 PM on Thursday, January 31st, 2019

The best to you, your wife and your family!!!

posts: 349   ·   registered: Apr. 24th, 2018   ·   location: Southwest PA
id 8322298
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SI Staff ( Moderator #10) posted at 11:23 PM on Thursday, January 31st, 2019

   Moving to General

posts: 10034   ·   registered: May. 30th, 2002
id 8322350
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Dodgetexan ( new member #69621) posted at 4:49 AM on Friday, February 1st, 2019

I've been lurking around this forum for several years now but have never posted anything until today, and before I do I would just like to say that I am sorry for the trauma you are going through. I doubt that anything I say will make it any better but I would still like to weigh in on a few things on this thread.

First of all, in regards to whether or not your idea of having sex with another woman would be considered cheating, that would depend on whether or not your wife agreed to it. If she doesn't want you to do it and you do it anyway, yes it would be cheating and she would be emotionally devastated by it. Why do you think she wouldn't be? You said yourself that you cannot bare the thought of another man having sex with your wife...why do you think she would feel any different about you having sex with another woman? Do you think that just because she cheated on you twelve years ago that she is now some unfeeling robot with no emotions? Of course she isn't, and she would be completely destroyed by it. Her heart would be broken, she would feel humiliated and degraded, she would feel pain, anger and resentment. She would feel like you didn't love her, didn't care about her, didn't want to be with her. She would think that she wasn't attractive enough or didn't satisfy you in bed or that you wanted to be with other women instead of her. Her confidence and self esteem would be shattered. She would essentially feel exactly the same way that you felt when you found out that she had cheated on you. And it wouldn't just be for a minute or a day or for the short run. It would be something she would have to deal with for the rest of her life, just the same as you are going to have to. In essence, it would make her just as miserable as you are. Part of you may think that sounds like a good idea since it might satisfy your need for "justice" or revenge, but it isn't going to help your marriage or your chances of having a successful R. If anything it would make any chance at R even more difficult than it already is. People keep saying that two wrongs don't make a right, and that's true, but two miserable people do not make a happy marriage either.

Now I can understand you feeling angry and resentful about what your wife did. And I can see why you might feel a little insecure about your perceived lack of sexual experience. In the wake of finding out you've been cheated on your emotions are probably bouncing all over the place and your self esteem has taken a huge hit but no one night stand is going to resolve that. Having sex with one woman one time is not going to satisfy the cravings you have to be with other women. It's like an alcoholic thinking that just one more drink will satisfy his thirst, or a cigarette smoker thinking that with just one more cigarette they will be able to quit. It might even just whet your appetite for more. What would you do then? Have sex again with somebody else? And then again...and again? The same way you are attempting to justify doing it now you could just as easily justify doing it again in the future.

And even if you only did it one time do you really think you would be satisfied? I mean, what exactly do you think is going to happen? You think that one wild night of uninhibited, passionate, porn star sex is going to satisfy all the cravings you have? Do you think there is some magic pussy out there that is going to solve all of your problems? If that is what you think then you are going to be severely disappointed.

Prostitutes are just like any other women. The only difference is that they get paid to have sex. It's their job. It's what they do for a living. You pay them to blow you and they will blow you. You pay them to allow you to have sex with them and they will allow you to have sex with them. But it's just sex. There is no emotion, no passion. It's just sex. And you do it the exact same way you would do it with any other woman. You kiss the same way, you fuck the same way, you have oral the same way. If you are licking a woman's pussy you do it the same way regardless of who the woman is. If you grab a woman's ass it doesn't matter who the ass is attached to, you grab it the same way. There is nothing you can do with another woman that you cannot do with your wife, and doing it with your wife will be much more satisfying.

I can tell you from personal experience that when it comes to sexual partners quality is much more important that quantity. I've been with about 50 women in my life time. Some were good, some were bad. Some I don't even remember. Some I wish I couldn't remember. The ones that really stand out in my mind are the ones that I had a strong emotional connection with. If you can find a woman that you love and care about, and if she loves and cares about you then you have already reached the highpoint in your sex life. Everything else is going to be downhill. Because everything else is just sex. Meaningless, emotionless sex. It's kind of like masturbating...it may be fun while you are doing it but afterwards you wonder what the point was.

If you really regret your lack of sexual experience then I would encourage you to explore your sexuality. Experiment a little, have some fun, try new places or positions or techniques...but do it with your wife, not some random girl that you don't even care about. Your wife is the one you say you want to reconcile with. She is the one you are attempting to build a life with. Work on it together and try new experiences with each other. That is something that will bring the two of you closer together, not tear you further apart. And isn't repairing the damage that was done to yourself and your marriage what you want to do? Let her help you do that. Let her help you to heal. At least she is trying to do that, and that's a hell of a lot more than what most waywards do.

I sincerely hope that you give up on this idea of having sex with another woman. I think it is a horrible idea and will cause nothing but heartache and disappointment. It won't help you to heal yourself or your marriage, nor will it satisfy whatever yearnings you have. And like I said before, there is nothing you can do with another woman that you cannot do with your wife. So please, for the sake of yourself, your wife, your children and your marriage, please reconsider.

It was long ago and it never happened anyway.

posts: 4   ·   registered: Feb. 1st, 2019   ·   location: Texas
id 8322471
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 CantBeMe123 (original poster member #67709) posted at 2:31 PM on Friday, February 1st, 2019

I have been determined to be a Madhatter by the SI Staff based on my honesty around prior flirtations with woman, which I cut off before anything physical happened. I am debating whether to keep posting as this action has been more painful for me than I'd care to admit. I've poured a lot of my soul into this board in the three months since d-day, and now I'm being judged while in the depths of my own despair over my wife's recent disclosure of her PA and 12 years of deception. What a gut punch.

Dodgetexan - Thanks for the thoughtful post. I appreciate it. I think the problem with sexual experience is you can tell me a million times how it's "nothing special" with someone else, and I do believe you, but I can't get my psyche to stop wondering. I am trying to qwell it with rational thought like yours, but it comes from an irrational place and doesn't listen very much to reason. My strategy now is to wait it out, take no action, and hope it passes with time.

I want to reiterate, what I have been sharing is a private thought, an invasive thought, one that I can't control having. I can only control taking action on it, which I have controlled for years, with ease. It doesn't feel as easy any more. I am just trying to be honest with how I feel and what my thoughts are. I share them here to solicit honest feedback.

In that vein, thanks to everyone for your support & advice, it's been appreciated. I believe I am done posting here the foreseeable future.

Me - BH
Her - WW ("Flawed" on SI)

D-Day 1: March 2006: "We were drunk and we kissed."
D-Day 2: Oct 2018 (12 years later): She voluntarily confessed - It was actually PA that lasted 2-3 months.

posts: 192   ·   registered: Nov. 1st, 2018   ·   location: NC
id 8322651
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Dodgetexan ( new member #69621) posted at 3:24 PM on Friday, February 1st, 2019

I think as time goes by it will be easier to deal with those invasive thoughts and feelings. As your R hopefully moves in the right direction and you are able to start healing it will get better.

I find it kind of ironic that while you've been married for twelve years you still regret not being with more women, while I've been with a bunch of women and really regret not getting married. I guess the grass always is greener on the other side, no matter where you stand.

It was long ago and it never happened anyway.

posts: 4   ·   registered: Feb. 1st, 2019   ·   location: Texas
id 8322674
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BraveSirRobin ( member #69242) posted at 6:11 PM on Friday, February 1st, 2019

CantBeMe -- I hope you won't leave. I hope you will keep posting. My BH and I have been quietly following you and Flawed while we go through something very, very similar. I haven't posted because I felt like I ought to get my full story out in Wayward before I started commenting on anyone else's, but if you're on the verge of leaving, I'm going to go ahead and say something that I think you both need to hear.

Extremely short version: I had an EA/PA in 1989 when my BH and I were dating, but before we were engaged. We had been together for three years but were attending colleges several hundred miles apart. I had asked for and received permission from him to date someone else, but the understanding was that it would be casual. It wasn't casual. I slept with the OM and became romantically attached. I ended the PA and admitted the sex to my then-BBF as soon as I saw him in person after the PA. However, I also lied, trickle truthed, and minimized both the physical and emotional extent of the relationship, and I refused to go NC, insisting that OM and I could just be friends. My BBF, in turn, disclosed a prior ONS (not sex, kissing/petting) with his sister's best friend. His view was that he now had a total hall pass for this transgression, since my affair (even just the parts I had admitted to) was so much worse. I agreed that what I had done was worse, and swallowed my resentment that he had cheated and lied to me for 18 months without any admission that this was wrong. My refusal to go NC tortured my BBF, and he sought validation with another ONS, this one with a girl who was attracted to him in college. He again did not sleep with her, but he engaged in other sexual behavior and cut it off only at the moment that she was getting into position to do the deed. He told me in advance that he was going to do this, and I was heartbroken but didn't see that I had any right to tell him no.

At this point, the odds should have been in favor of both of us calling it quits and walking away. We were still separated by hundreds of miles, no kids, no financial entanglements, no trust. But we still loved each other, so we did what any two apparently insane people would do -- we got engaged, I cut off all contact with the OM, and we rugswept the entire thing. My BH, like you, got married without knowing the full extent of my betrayal; like you, he remained traumatized by the things he did know. It's only in the last two years, after the trigger of our 25th wedding anniversary, that all of this has come roiling back up to the surface. Unknown to me, my BH never stopped having PTSD and mind movies about my affair. Unknown to my BH, I still resented the fact that he was both the first and last person in our relationship to be involved with someone else, and yet somehow I was still cast as the villain in our story. The irony is that despite everything that I've described, it's been an amazing marriage. I'm sure that many people will chime in that that's an absurd statement with all the lies and baggage, but it's true. Most of the time, we've been very happy. Neither of us has strayed in any way since the day we got engaged. But the rugswept lies and denials preyed on us anyway, for more than twice as long as they have preyed on you.

We've been making steady progress since DDay 2 in October. My BH finally knows the full extent of my PA and EA. I understand things I was too selfish and immature to recognize or admit about my decisions and behavior. We are at the start of a long journey of whys and hows. But the point of this post isn't to tell my story. Rather, I offer all this as credentials to address your designation as a madhatter on SI, and I hope you will believe that I'm doing it as someone who has experience and really, truly wants the best for you and Flawed as you decide if and how you can reconcile.

Gently, you are a madhatter. The SI admins did what they had to do. I have been watching your thread with a growing level of surprise that it wasn't moved out of JFO long before it was. While everyone else seemed focused on what you might do, I was focused on what you had already done. Your references to your "almost affair," "poor boundaries," "some might call me a madhatter but I don't think I am" -- I think that under the surface, you've known all along that it was an affair. It's possible that you just couldn't look at it in light of the walloping pain that you now know betrayal causes. There was (again, this isn't meant as an attack) so much wayward thinking in the justifications you were giving for your behavior. Your involvement with the COW wasn't an affair because you lied, but you cut it off before things became physical. Your plan to sleep with another woman wouldn't be an affair because you'd be physical with her, but you wouldn't be lying. Your WW might be hurt by it, but that's just an unrelated outcome of you getting what you need, which has nothing to do with her, and is also a natural consequence of her behavior, and therefore pain she deserves. This is all right out of the wayward handbook. Having this pointed out to you is not an attack, it's a gift... if you really want to R.

I'me here to tell you from personal experience, and my BH agrees with me, that if you had succeeded in rugsweeping your affair with the COW, it would have been a ticking time bomb in your marriage. Is this the time to address it? Probably not. You're still on your knees dealing with the terrible trauma of your WW's actions and lies. I lied for 30 years, so I live every day with what that has done to the person I love most in the world. If you don't believe that I get it, I hope you'll believe that my BH does. And he says the same thing as me... this probably isn't the time, but sooner or later, you were going to have to face what you did as an affair, not an "almost affair." BS's on SI have left their spouses over the things you've admitted to -- heavy flirting, repeatedly allowing the AP to expose herself to you, a relationship that progressed right up to the offer of sex before being cut off. Remember, too, that although your WW lied to you, you didn't know that at the time that you got involved with COW. You stood up and made a vow to be faithful, not to "not do anything worse than what you did when you kissed that guy." And you broke that vow. It wasn't until later that you discovered that the vow was made under false pretenses, so you can't use that as a justification (even if such a justification would hold water, which is a whole other subject for debate).

You need SI more than ever to help you navigate these truths. Flawed does, too. I hope that even if you stop posting, you'll keep reading. There's so much to learn here, and the gut punches are, unfortunately, often very instructive. The best things I've read here are the posts and comments that made me see myself for what I am -- as long as the post came from someone who was trying to be supportive, rather than just venting their own bitterness.

I hope that nothing I've written here qualifies as a vent, and I apologize in advance if it comes across that way. I wish you only the best on your journey.

WW/BW

posts: 3724   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8322777
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 CantBeMe123 (original poster member #67709) posted at 6:52 PM on Friday, February 1st, 2019

I'll break my promise to myself because your post really speaks to me. Thank you.

Let's say I am a Madhatter (God I hate that word so much and feel ridiculous typing it out). My flirtations escalated too high, I hid them, I'm a MH. OK.

Here's my complaint. I came to this board as a betrayed spouse. I came here in the most pain I've ever experienced in my life. I came here to save my marriage. Why must I be cast in this new role when I am not ready to be? Why should I be cut off from the BS "community" of JFO? Am I - a BS 3 months out from d-day - so 'triggering' to other BS because I had an opportunityto cheat on my wife, but didn't?

I simply don't understand why they did this to me, without any warning, still deep in my time of need. This site is supposedly a non-profit that exists to help people heal, I have donated to it myself, yet I am being treated like something that must be placed in a separate box and shamed and judged. That's how it feels to me.

Furthermore, I have described my co-worker "thing" for almost two months. Why do this now?

Finally, I would like to push back a bit on being a Madhatter and ask, where does an affair start? What level of flirting is acceptable before crossing into cheating? I understand that my boundaries were shit, and the flirting went way too far, but know that I did not email this person outside of work, call this person, text this person, or have physical contact with this person. She did not exist in my world during times that I did not see her in person, and I never made advances on her, I just allowed her advances to go unchecked until they went way over the edge. I had an attraction to her attraction to me, if that makes sense. I would NOT let it go that far now. I know better having been through this. My wife and I are both working on better boundaries. But I still don't feel like I had an affair and I don't identify as a MH.

And maybe I need to work on this and have my "Eureka" moment once I get over this trauma, BUT I AM NOT READY YET, not at all. It's like SI has thrown me into the ring to fight these other demons when I am still getting beat up from my wife's. And I just don't see what purpose it serves, other than to hurt me further than I already am.

To paraphrase your post, you basically are saying I need to come clean and own my shit, yet I feel like I am constantly punished here for doing just that. I admit to thoughts I can't help having, and I am punished for having them. I propose an idea that to me are not infidelity, and I am hung for them (and then removed as a BS by mods, very odd). I admit to the one time in my life that my fidelity was tested (and held), and I am punished.

It's like the only BS allowed here are those who claim to have an absolutely perfect clean record and never a stray thought in their life. That is simply not me, I am not perfect, but I have not strayed either.

Me - BH
Her - WW ("Flawed" on SI)

D-Day 1: March 2006: "We were drunk and we kissed."
D-Day 2: Oct 2018 (12 years later): She voluntarily confessed - It was actually PA that lasted 2-3 months.

posts: 192   ·   registered: Nov. 1st, 2018   ·   location: NC
id 8322801
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Gettingoveritall ( member #46722) posted at 7:01 PM on Friday, February 1st, 2019

Hey CBM, I can see why you don't believe/want to believe that your prior behaviors were infidelity.

If your wife had done the exact same during your marriage, how would you interpret it?

I'm not looking for you to answer me here. Just think about it introspectively and honestly answer to yourself.

You should be after the truth about yourself as much as you are the truth about your wife. Truth is good, as you know. We are all imperfect people trying to get through life.

I wish you the best.

Me: BH
Her: WW

posts: 703   ·   registered: Feb. 9th, 2015   ·   location: United States
id 8322804
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jhjss11 ( new member #69625) posted at 7:08 PM on Friday, February 1st, 2019

(no soliciting)

[This message edited by SI Staff at 3:08 PM, February 1st (Friday)]

posts: 1   ·   registered: Feb. 1st, 2019   ·   location: Virginia
id 8322806
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