SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

When you find it inside yourself that the job is a deal breaker and trumps all else, then you’ll be able to communicate with her that doing half the work is not doing it at all.

Has she talked to him this week? Tell her every time there’s communication of any kind, business or other, it resets you back to DDay1. You know that every time she hears from him she thinks what they did together, or what she no longer has, or how she missed him. Even if that is not what the conversation was about. And that you can no longer live like that.

Ask her what she has said or done to prove to you that she no longer cares about him or no longer thinks positively about him. How has she shown you that she no longer fantasizes about him or misses him as her lover or part of her life.

How has she made you feel that she loves you more than him. Or even more, how she loves you solely, or how you will be the man for her for the rest of her life.

And how can she do any of that with the fact that she still has communication with him daily or weekly or even monthly or even once a year.

How does she realize that she broke your heart. That she gave what was special between you to someone else.

And how does she expect you to believe she is serious about helping you heal if she won’t get IC to fix herself.

But here’s the rub. You can sit across from her for the next 40 years biting your tongue because you stayed and watched her do the bare minimum. Or you can communicate to her exactly what you need and then let her know that you’ll be working with a lawyer to move on until you see it, not just started, but implemented.

And not because you asked for it, but because she wants it for both of you. If she can’t do it without blaming you instead of herself for having to do it, then she might as well not do it at all and you should both move on and find someone who you feel is worth doing those things for.

I’d choose that path. I’d commit to it as hard as it was. But if you can live with less than and find happiness doing so, that’s an alternate path. A valid one that has enduring pain with no salve to ease it over time.

Many have made peace that way and accepted it for what it is.

But others have decided that it’s either a partner who owns up and does everything they can to right the wrong, or it’s an end to the partnership.

Strength brother.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 10:49 PM, April 29th (Wednesday)]

She has almost no details in the first year when things were the most active.

What?

That is horseshit.

So the rollercoaster ride continues.

Two days ago she tells me that she was on a conference call with multiple people, including him, but didn't speak directly to him. There is a group text with most of both offices on it. He texted some stupid stuff and people responded. She told me about it and showed me it when she got home. She did not respond to the text. I was able to independently verify this.

Yesterday she told me he sent her a message through a company charting system about something he did regarding something she was doing. She printed it out and showed me when she got home.

I told her the contact, whether work related or not, was causing me stress and I couldn't keep doing this. I told her I will not stay in limbo like I have for the last 11 months. She begged for me to give her a chance to prove herself.

This morning out of the blue, she tells me she has been thinking about moving to Idaho with me. (that was our original retirement plan) I asked her why and she said because she wanted to spend the rest of her life with me and it gets her out of a job where he is.

There is a problem with that though as my youngest won't graduate from H.S. until next year and I don't want to uproot him for his final year of high school.

So now I don't know what to think

[This message edited by achilles1101 at 12:16 PM, April 30th (Thursday)]

Do the words, "I quit," not get her out of her job as well?

She is telling you she will move BECAUSE it is a year and a half away. She's hoping it continue to get her what she wants. She keeps her job, still gets some contact with him, and she's hoping it will shut you up. Maybe she will move, maybe not.

Just tell her to quit. The situation isn't working. Either she wants her marriage over her job, or she doesn't. If she doesn't, then file,because you have nothing to work with.

achilles,

Are you in IC? I think a good IC would help you navigate this mess. The face-to-face real time conversation should get you some answers about how to heal that will help you a lot. If you're not in IC, I recommend looking for a good IC.

This morning out of the blue, she tells me she has been thinking about moving to Idaho with me. (that was our original retirement plan) I asked her why and she said because she wanted to spend the rest of her life with me and it gets her out of a job where he is.

What such a move gets her is:

1) Entirely off the hook.

2) A commitment from you to spend the rest of your life with her, when she has done precious little to provide you with any evidence of a fundamental change in her, or much in the way of empathy for you.

She knows you want her out of that job, and she resisted that, saying that she could end up in a crappier job with no guarantee from you that you would stay with her after she left the job. Can you see how her latest brainwave makes you give that commitment to her, because she knows you want her out of that job?

If you need her to leave the job, she should leave the job, not try to link that to some kind of guarantee from you that you want to commit to a retirement plan that was made before you knew who she really is.

She wants a guarantee of no consequences for a four-year affair, and she also wants her life and retirement plan to not be affected by her bad choices and behaviour. If you ditch her,what will she have, and where will she go? Her AP is not going to ride off into the sunset with her.

She is in a very weak position, but bluffing and trying to negotiate from a position of power.

An effective counter this this would be:

"I will not consider anything regarding our long-term future until you leave that job, and if you remain in that job, we have no long-term future".

I haven't been on here for a little bit, it's been a little crazy.

Two days from now is our 20th wedding anniversary. Pre D Day we planned on finally taking a big trip to celebrate. Well Corona virus and the affair changed that. She wanted to make alternate plans to go somewhere closer and I told her I didn't feel like doing anything.

I think something may have finally hit home with her, woke her up a little bit. When I talked to OBS, about 3 weeks ago, we took off our wedding rings. I told her we would put them back on when I was ready. I put mine on the nightstand by the bed. Right next to the bedroom door. She put hers in a jewelry box. Things were going along as they had, no progress. I had kinda stopped caring which caused me to not pay much attention to her.

She came to me and asked if we could put our wedding rings on. I told her no, I wasn't ready. She said seeing my wedding ring sit on the nightstand really bothered her. I told her no. She had a fit but, no rings.

About a week later was her father's birthday. She said she was going to put her wedding ring on to go over for a gathering of family (I didn't go) so she didn't have explain at her fathers birthday. I told her I didn't care, I really like my in laws and don't want them hurt if I don't have to.

When she came back, she asked me to put my ring back on. I told her no. She asked if I wanted her to take her ring off and I told her yes. I told her when we are ready we will both put our rings on like when we got married. She took her ring off and placed it next to mine on the nightstand and brokedown and cried.

Can't and won't say this is some kind of epiphany, but at least she started to look for a new job and scheduled counseling. One problem though, jobs in her field are tight and she just got her hours cut, but at least she's looking,

So I guess I am cautiously optimistic.

Any thoughts?

So I guess I am cautiously optimistic.

Any thoughts?

Train yourself to focus on yourself. You are imo investing too much time and energy analyzing her to find your own peace of mind. The lesson to be learned from infidelity is to value yourself over most anything else. When you have faith in yourself, you have faith in the world. When you trust that you can be happy under any circumstances, you develop an ability to weather uncertainty and anxiety in life without trying to quickly fix it or, even worse, avoid it.

The only thing that seems to soothe your anxiety right now is the knowledge that your M will work, and that indicates a power imbalance and emptiness in you that will continue to stalk your life unless you learn to fill that hole.

Who cares what she is doing. How is your personal growth and healing going? What are you doing for yourself? It's great she is working on herself. It means you don't need to divorce today. Tomorrow is still uncertain, and so what work are you doing on you?

I’d like to highlight something I wrote last week so it doesn’t get lost Achilles.

So listen to her inaction. Tell her it’s obvious that she very easily spent half a decade risking everything she had for the more important love she found with the OM and it speaks volumes that she won’t now risk everything to try and keep the man she vowed to love honor cherish and protect. That you can’t MAKE her want to do that, so you are going to stop trying to.

I really think you should tell her this. Tell her that it’s clear to you she cares more for her AP than she ever has you and that because of that, because she won’t risk the same or more for you than she ever did for her POSOM, that you are planning to move on.

All she gives you are words, not actions. She throws you a few innocuous email threads with the AP to try and prove something. All it proves is she is still in contact with the AP.

No new job. No quitting old job. No IC. No confessing her affair to her family and apologizing to you in front of them. Jus words.

Call her on it. I can’t remember your lawyer status but I think whatever it is, it’s time to take the next step in that area. Call them this week.

If she finally realizes what she really has to do to save her marriage, decides it’s important enough to not lose the man who truly should be the love of her life, AND ACTUALLY DOES EVERYTHING she needs to do to fix herself, heal her husband and lead the rebuilding of your marriage, then, and only then, you can discuss if you care enough to try again.

What do you think? Don’t stay in limbo. It’s not going to change anything.

My thoughts are with you ...

[This message edited by Stevesn at 9:53 AM, May 5th (Tuesday)]

Next time you might respond:

You don't wear your ring because (as a result of her cheating) the marriage was destroyed (along with the woman you married); and consequently you no longer feel married.

IMO, the ring issue is evidence that she is not currently a good candidate for R.

Why? because she can't fix what she refuses to acknowledge.

1 - Your wife's mindset is one of denial by overlooking that your old marriage (and the woman you married) were totally destroyed by her infidelity. Consequently, celebrating the anniversary is no longer appropriate.

2 - asking you to wear the ring is selfish (i.e, wayward thinking), lacks empathy for the impact of her infidelity on you - and overlooks that her infidelity destroyed her marriage.

3 - by lying to herself as to the damage she caused (and 'who' she allowed herself to become) she is not motivated to fix herself or rebuild the marriage.

About a week later was her father's birthday. She said she was going to put her wedding ring on to go over for a gathering of family (I didn't go) so she didn't have explain at her fathers birthday.

Covering for herself nothing to do with you.

When she came back, she asked me to put my ring back on. I told her no. She asked if I wanted her to take her ring off and I told her yes. I told her when we are ready we will both put our rings on like when we got married. She took her ring off and placed it next to mine on the nightstand and brokedown and cried.

Regrets for her consequences only. I wouldn’t read too much into this.

I'm writing to emphasize OIN's point.

I think one way to characterize a good M is as 'a relationship in which both partners get their healthy emotional needs met.' Let's define 'healthy' as something like 'likely to lead toward connection and joy and away from grief, fear, and shame.'

Among the requirements are 1) the partners need to figure out what they want, 2) the partners need to figure out ways to get what they want, 3) the partners have to figure out how they'll know when the relationship is meeting their goals.

In essence, 2 potential partners need to compare what they want to give and get with each other. If there's a good fit, great - you know a partnership is possible. If there isn't a fit, great - you know a partnership isn't possible without significant adjustment.

Achilles,

If you accept the relationship model above, then IMO you need to focus on what you want to get, what you want to give, how you're going to give and get, and how you're going to know if the relationship is, in fact, giving you what you want.

You probably want a lot more than a W who isn't cheating, and if you don't know what that 'more' is, you'll have a hard time getting it.

[This message edited by sisoon at 9:44 AM, May 5th (Tuesday)]

So,

yesterday was my 20th wedding anniversary. I told her I didn't want to do anything because it didn't mean anything to me anymore and didn't do anything for her, not even a card. She ordered lobster for delivery to the house on our anniversary last month. Well it didn't arrive. Plan B for her was door dash from my favorite BBQ place. Well that didn't arrive either. So I ate nothing and didn't care.

She tried to make it up to me today by cooking filets and lobster. It was nice, she did a good job, but I couldn't get over the feeling that it was not going to fix anything.

Question is, how do I deal with her trying to make things better like that and the whole fix yourself first thing?

Probably important, but just to confuse things, we had sex on our anniversary and it was very good. So totally confused now.

[This message edited by achilles1101 at 11:15 PM, May 7th (Thursday)]

So totally confused now.

Why?

Things don't seem confusing from here. They seem the same.

I guess I have a question: is being nice to you with food and sex gonna fix this? Doesn't seem like it.

If not, what will? And since you cannot control what she does, what can/will you do since food/sex won't fix this and you can't control her????

And there you have it--we always arrive back at creating our own lives, healing ourselves.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 12:32 AM, May 8th (Friday)]

Just a love bombing rugsweep technique. Not uncommon but like everyone says. It doesn’t change a thing.

Never feed a cake eater. They’ll just want more cake.

After I posted last night, we were talking about how I felt that doing things for me were nice but wouldn't fix the problem, that she needed to fix herself first then we could work on the marriage.

Not sure what triggered it, she said something about me saying affairs thrive in the darkness, but she then told her family about the affair, everyone, Her parents and both brothers.

Kind of waiting to see what happens today.

I cannot speak to your situation because I am not you, but there are three kinds of waywards (my opinion).

A. Super remorseful and do everything right, plugged in to your feelings and needs.

B. Sorry but not remorseful. Spend their time trying to get out of the doghouse, often say things like, "Fine, but it's never gonna be enough." Asking which hoop to jump through since they can't seem to imagine what you might need at all. Trying but only superficially.

C. Not sorry and not remorseful. Completely blameshift and distance from responsibility. Leave, stay, act an ass, whatever. Unremorseful forever, but they dabble in B just to shut you up. Sometimes.

A wayward can overlap, but more common is moving through stages: start as C, slowly feel like B, and then become A. Do they all become A?! Hell no!!!! But we smoke a lot of hopium in the BS club, and we gaslight ourselves as much or more than our WS gaslight us. Change is hard, and a lot of us realize that our FOO set us up to take a lot of crap and think nothing of it. We live our whole lives that way, lying to ourselves and accepting crap.

You have no control over whether your WW is a C masquerading as a B or A, whether she's in the stages of changing or not. She feels however she feels. And yet you stare at her, waiting to see something, anything. It is as if she is a real person living a life and your job is to watch her live her life. Can I ask you something? What would you do if she had a tragic accident and passed away suddenly? These horrible things do sometimes happen. Who will you watch then? Would you finally stop thinking about her actions, needs, love, lack of love, future, past and start remembering that you have your own life to live?

And let me tell you, even if she becomes a glorious A, it is not "Problem solved." It is then that you will be forced to realize that she cannot make you feel good about yourself again. Only you can do that, so start doing it now. You. Don't. Need. Her. Whether she stays or not, becomes an A wayward or not. You are your own person with your own self-esteem. Staying in the M won't fix your really crappy feelings, so stop focusing on her. How are you going to get good with yourself and your life, so that you can survive losing her in any form? How are you going to trust the world again? How are you going to look in the mirror and say, "I really like me. I'm pretty awesome" and mean it?

Time to learn to love you by living your own best life. Stop watching her because she can't fix this. It's bigger than her. As you become stronger and clearer, you can revisit this M and see if it's working for you. But if you don't figure out who you are and what kind of life you want and expect, you are going to walk this same path again.

**All purely my experience.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 12:58 PM, May 8th (Friday)]

Not sure what triggered it, she said something about me saying affairs thrive in the darkness, but she then told her family about the affair, everyone, Her parents and both brothers.

Like, she just did this last night? And did you listen in?

WWs owning their shit and being open/vulnerable is a "good" sign if R is the goal. So that's something.

Not sure what triggered it, she said something about me saying affairs thrive in the darkness, but she then told her family about the affair, everyone, Her parents and both brothers.

If she did and I’d probably question if it’s true under the circumstances that’s the first thing I’ve seen that’s a bright spot as long as she doesn’t blame you for her affair (real important).