SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Sorry to hear. What do you need

not sure just feel bad and don't l

know what to do.

Not sure we can fix this and just feeling sad. I thought I had a handle on this and now I am not so sure.

sucks

just realized I found this site and made my profile on Aprils fools day, how appropriate

[This message edited by achilles1101 at 10:16 AM, May 14th (Thursday)]

Achilles,

You have been heard. I am sure I am not the only one here who wishes we could be there for you.

It seems like you are a caring, giving kind of person, but now you are the one who needs some care and attention.

Please talk to us. Tell us what is bothering you, even if it is just random thoughts. We may be able to help get them into some kind of order, or offer insight on the things that are making you feel uncertain.

You are not alone. We are listening, and we want to do whatever we can for you.

Sending a bro hug across the Atlantic to you.

[This message edited by M1965 at 2:35 PM, May 14th (Thursday)]

Wow, M1965 really nailed it. So much can be gleaned from that response. Very insightful.

I was going back over the posts and realized that a year was wasted between when I first found out about the affair and when she finally totally(?) came clean. That led me to think about the affair lasting a quarter of our marriage and the lying even longer.

I feel like I had started to deal with things and then had to start all over again with even more crap.

So I guess it just kind of spiraled downward.

It's a new day and time to pull myself up by my bootstraps and move forward.

Thanks for listening

[This message edited by achilles1101 at 10:31 AM, May 14th (Thursday)]

'Weak' and 'strong' have unique meanings in recovering from being betrayed.

The main way to be strong in your sitch is to start finding your own path from where you are to a state of being healed. The path is somewhat well known but there are parts that are unique to each of us.

It's a really unpleasant, painful path, but we can all find our way - if we look for and follow it.

You've changed, achilles. You've changed inside, and you've changed what you do. Finding your way through this is difficult, slow work, so you focus more on the 'wasted' year than on what you've accomplished, but that doesn't diminish your accomplishments.

You're on your path, even though you don't quite know where you'll end up. That's strong and courageous. Just sayin'....

Achilles,

My heart goes out to you for the pain you are experiencing. I am not sure if this will be any kind of comfort, but you are on a journey, and the 'all is lost' stage is one that I think everyone who has been hit by infidelity has had to pass through to reach a better place.

These are the times when a truly remorseful wayward will reach out and make an effort. I hope that your wife - damaged as she is - will make the effort for you.

Do not worry too much about hitting this point, Achilles. The 'getting out of infidelity' train stops at a number of stations along the way, but it always gets going again and moves on. Where you are now is not where you are going to be permanently.

It does get better.

And we are all behind you, and walking along side of you.

As for that Greek heel, and how 'lost' you think you might be without your wife, just think about how lost she would be without you caring for her. You are not the vulnerable one her; she is.

You are doing better than you realize. Hitting this stage means you are moving and making progress. And like all of us, you will find that you move on from this point.

This is not chaos. This is the way the process works.

You are not rug-sweeping. You are dealing with this crap. That can be challenging, but the only way to make it though this is to do what you are doing.

You are going to prevail, Achilles. Whatever road you choose, you are going to pick a wise and solid one, and you have a whole gang behind you who are going to analyse the living daylights out of everything on your behalf.

Do not despair. Hitting this point indicates that you are moving forward, and everyone here is moving with you.

M1965,

I smile as I write this.

You do know that Achilles had two choices. Live a long and boring life or die young with everlasting glory. We all know which he chose.

I guess since I am already old we know which path I took.

I am better, but I hurt just the same. I have shaken off some the helplessness and am moving forward, albeit baby steps. In counseling, she asked my wife what dealing with the affair would look like. My wife said like when we were first married. That sounded good to me and what I thought I wanted, but I know it will never be like that again. Things have changed irrevocably and if this works out it will be different but hopefully good. We shall see.

Thanks again to everyone for the help and kind words

Hi Achilles,

I have shaken off some the helplessness and am moving forward, albeit baby steps. In counseling, she asked my wife what dealing with the affair would look like. My wife said like when we were first married. That sounded good to me and what I thought I wanted, but I know it will never be like that again. Things have changed irrevocably and if this works out it will be different but hopefully good. We shall see.

People often think they want things to go back to the way they were before an affair happened, but I think that ignores the fact that the way things were allowed the affair to happen.

And more importantly, the way people were allowed the affair to happen.

That is why I think that giving a marriage a second chance must be based on not going back to the old dynamic, but using the lessons learnt to build something better, and noticeably different.

It sounds like you feel the same. So this is a time for you to do some reflecting about what you think was good and bad in the old dynamic between you and your wife. What you would want her to change, and what you might want to change about yourself.

If I was your MC, I would ask both of you what you are going to do differently in future to create that new dynamic.

And on that score, your wife needs to lose the idea that she can just keep on keeping on, because it was her who fired a missile at the relationship. If she makes no effort to change, you will just be hauling the marriage back onto the same old firing range for a bit more target practice.

That would do neither of you any good. However, change is possible, and I think you could make the MC sessions work for you by focusing on what you both want to change, and get advice from the counselor about how best to make those changes.

And the good thing is that as the plan takes on more and more detail and ideas, the more positive you are going to feel about giving the marriage a second chance. It may not fix the pain that we all experience, but it can help to counterbalance it.

Baby steps are the best kind, because this is not a time to rush. And it is not a time for one person to rush ahead of the other. Make sure you are both moving at the same pace, because otherwise six months could go by and the two of you will be on different pages when it comes to what the re-booted marriage should be.

Take care good care of yourself, Achilles.

Initially I wanted to go back to the way it was when we, well her, were young and everything was great.

Now I know we can never get there again, just a memory and a good one.

I know I have a lot to change in myself and I hope I can do so no matter what happens. I have to change me to be a better person for myself and my kids.

I also know she has a lot to change. Whether it is for me or herself, she can't be truly happy until she does. I honestly wish her luck and hope she does even if we D.

Hi Achilles,

There is a thread that has just been started in the 'General' forum called 'Avoidant Attachment'. It might be an interesting one for you to look at.

In that thread, a forum member called CaptainRogers mentions a book called "How We Love" by Milan & Kay Yerkovich that helped him and his wife to understand how they relate to each other. That may be something to look into. It has some very good reviews.

Our thoughts are with you, Achilles.

M1965,

I have been following that post and it looks like another book to read. I read a lot of the posts here. I am amazed at how much directly relates to what I am going through. Even on the wayward side, some posts are almost identical to what my wife did and why. I guess maybe I thought my problems were unique, eye opener, not hardly.

Second session of MC today. The counselor tried to steer things to what was broken in the marriage. I told her we needed to deal with the infidelity issue first or there was no sense in dealing with what was broken in the marriage. Told her I was in the same marriage with the same problems and chose not to cheat. She seems to understand but I don't think infidelity is what she usually deals with. At least I was able to keep her on track. I actually opened up more about what I thought I needed. Surprised myself a little, I'm usually pretty private.

My wife doesn't seem to be bothered by my approach to things, so that is at least good.

Don't think I mentioned this, but we mailed a NC letter certified mail to AP yesterday. OBS is not working now so pretty sure she will have to sign for it and think she will probably open it. We will see what happens with that.

We invited my in laws over for brunch tomorrow to talk about what is going on. should be interesting.

Lots going on, we'll she how things shake out over the next few days.

Thanks again to everyone helping me, I really appreciate it and think I am moving forward.

Second session of MC today. The counselor tried to steer things to what was broken in the marriage. I told her we needed to deal with the infidelity issue first or there was no sense in dealing with what was broken in the marriage. Told her I was in the same marriage with the same problems and chose not to cheat. She seems to understand but I don't think infidelity is what she usually deals with. At least I was able to keep her on track. I actually opened up more about what I thought I needed. Surprised myself a little, I'm usually pretty private.

This is honestly an unbelievably strong response to this MC's attempt here. Truly. Most people in a situation with a professional would just do whatever they say. Very rare that I see a BS on here as early as you are in the process able to have this much control/perspective.

With my experience in mind and hindsight being 20/20, I'd advise you to consider a different MC in light of this, but of course you know what's best for you. The fact that she doesn't often deal with infidelity isn't a great sign in my opinion.

Okokok,

Only strong because of your, and many other poster's advice. Wish I had found this site much sooner. Could have saved me a lot of grief.

Thanks again

Um ... bullshit?

The strength was in you already. You had to make a choice to use it. It's great that you know where you got some of your ideas. It's also great to own your own power.

*****

One of the things I found in R is that the only old problems we needed to deal with were the ones that came up again.

It was as if R meant discarding the list of problems we had before d-day. We acted as authentically as we could in R and addressed issues pretty much as they came up.

Addressing issues as they came up - not perfectly, of course - meant that a lot of the old annoying behaviors were never repeated.

My point is that you can tell the MC that there's no point in digging up old latrines and that it's much better to deal with the issues that come up in the here and now.

*****

If your W dwells on old complaints, she's blame-shifting. You and/or the MC can confront that. You can observe your W's response - if she accepts the confrontation and changes her behavior, that's probably positive for R. If she fights the confrontation, it's probably negative.

Hi Achilles,

I read a lot of the posts here. I am amazed at how much directly relates to what I am going through. Even on the wayward side, some posts are almost identical to what my wife did and why. I guess maybe I thought my problems were unique, eye opener, not hardly.

Yes, if you read here for any length of time you will find the same few basic stories playing out over and over again. That means that advice given in one thread can apply to many others.

Where things start to differ is in the aftermath of discovery. For example, four people might have affairs that match on all the main points. That means that advice about how to gather evidence, prepare, confront, etc, can apply to all four.

After discovery/exposure, the direction of travel and the way the stories play out will depend on the actions and attitude of the wayward spouse.

Out of the quartet in my example, one WS might be 100% remorseful, and move mountains to make a change in themselves and make their betrayed partner feel secure (for example total openness in communication, etc).

The second WS might regret being caught, feel some remorse, but not a lot, and make very little effort to change or make their partner feel 'safe'.

The third might only feel regret at being caught, admit only what the betrayed spouse can prove, and insist on their 'privacy', denying access to their communications and location.

The fourth might simply take the affair underground and continue it, while lying to their betrayed spouse, possibly even reading a few books, going to IC, but basically faking it. This usually has a limited lifespan, because betrayed spouses in such situations have often become skilled detectives, and they will uncover the affair weeks or months after it submerged.

Figuring out the direction of travel of each post-discovery scenario can be more challenging than busting the affair, but this is where a forum like this really comes into its own.

The members here have huge amounts of real-life experience to draw on, from the 'perfect' waywards who become 100% safe and reformed, to the shiftiest, trickiest, con artists, and the games they play.

And they also have a lot of experience with counselors, both good and bad. The worst will shift focus onto the betrayed partner, and encourage rug-sweeping, or even blame the betrayed partner. The members here always respond robustly and forcefully when a betrayed person reports a counselor treating them that way!

On that theme, I have to say that this...

Second session of MC today. The counselor tried to steer things to what was broken in the marriage. I told her we needed to deal with the infidelity issue first or there was no sense in dealing with what was broken in the marriage. Told her I was in the same marriage with the same problems and chose not to cheat. She seems to understand but I don't think infidelity is what she usually deals with. At least I was able to keep her on track.

...is one of the best responses I have ever seen a betrayed person give in one of their first MC sessions. Hats of to you, Achilles; what you did and said is 100% textbook what any betrayed person should do or say to ensure that the right direction is taken.

I don't think infidelity is what she usually deals with.

As Okokok says, see how the next few sessions go, but if your current counselor seems out of her depth, you could consider finding another who is well-versed in dealing with infidelity.

I actually opened up more about what I thought I needed. Surprised myself a little, I'm usually pretty private.

That is really good to see. It can take time for a betrayed person's world to stop spinning enough for them to figure out where they want to stand, and what they need to see.

I am glad that you have reached that point. Your reading in the forum, in books, and the advice you receive in your thread will all help you to flesh out and develop your plan as it moves forward.

Don't think I mentioned this, but we mailed a NC letter certified mail to AP yesterday. OBS is not working now so pretty sure she will have to sign for it and think she will probably open it. We will see what happens with that.

We invited my in laws over for brunch tomorrow to talk about what is going on. should be interesting.

These are good, solid actions, and they keep things moving in the right direction.

Wish I had found this site much sooner. Could have saved me a lot of grief.

Perhaps, but isn't it a positive thing that you kept looking until you found this place? And we are all happy that you did.

A forum like this can have two forms of benefit. (1) It can provide lots of ideas and suggestions from which you can pick those you feel are most suited to your situation, and (2) members will fire distress flares, sound an alarm, or shout, "Hey! Don't do that! It doesn't work!" if they see someone about to step into a bear trap.

I hope things go okay with the in-laws today.

Sisoon;

I used to think I was strong, that was destroyed when I found out she was cheating. It reduced me to a blubbering mass. People here helped me regain my strength and move forward. I kid you not, when I first found out I was a train wreck, I could hardly feed myself, let alone heal. So thanks to all of you.

I am trying to deal with the here and now.

M1965,

I am just trying to move forward. My wife is somewhere in-between your categories and I am trying to figure her out. One thing I know is I will not be in limbo anymore like I was for the first year

MIL was OK considering. She is crushed. At least my wife didn't give any excuses. MIL gave her as good as I did and at least sh was honest

[This message edited by achilles1101 at 10:30 PM, May 17th (Sunday)]

One thing that has always bothered me, My wife says she has always loved me, even during the affair. Can that be. She says she compartmentalized things and work (him) was work, and home (ME) was home. Can this even be true? I obviously think you can't cheat on the one you love, so I really can't get my head around this.

I know she wasn't going to leave me for him and believe she didn't love him. (Different motivation for the affair)

I still don't get this.

One thing that has always bothered me, My wife says she has always loved me, even during the affair. Can that be. She says she compartmentalized things and work (him) was work, and home (ME) was home. Can this even be true? I obviously think you can't cheat on the one you love, so I really can't get my head around this.

I don't really get this either. It's not intuitive to me at all. But I know it's a very common thing that WSs in the Wayward Side forum talk through a lot. Easy to find threads where they're talking about this very word--compartmentalization--and what it all means.

My best understanding is that it's more of a symptom of much deeper issues within WS that, again, I don't understand on a personal level. Not a "sickness" and not excusable, just a fucked-up way of being and, in the world of infidelity, of treating others.

I know this response is not a comfort. I'm as clueless as you are. I just know that what your wife told you here is very common.