SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Sorry for offending you. Cheaters are just bad people, I can't change that.

You're way behind on the thread. Why comment? rolleyes

It's simple after all.

I read the thread but it mostly looks like you complaining about people in your real life that think you should give her a chance. But you have already basically told them to roll it up real tight and sit on it.

I'm not offended that you think cheaters are bad people with bad morals. I think it's a totally valid world view.

Hardliner BSs usually come in here, post a couple times and take off.

What is keeping you here? What advice are you looking for? How to work through the betrayal trauma in general? How to stop loving your STBXW because she is a bad person?

Your wife's problem isn't the relationship she's in, it's your inability to get over the relationship and the end of the marriage.

If you want mc your wife will happily accompany you, mc will usually make you admit that you are guilty of the relationship and say "fix the marriage!" says. This is the way your wife wants.

Everyone around you says, you have to forgive, you have to grow up, etc. for the continuation of the marriage, they are not stupid, they do not want to lose you,

Nothere759

Could your own father have done anything to change your mind about how you treated your mother when you learned she betrayed your father? Would you have wanted him to? Would you have listened?

If you are going to have a sit down regardless then ensure it is just you and your kids and have the discussion. Nothing will be accomplished with your wife present. Your children are angry so your battle is up hill to start with. You already set the gold standard for how to deal with an adulterous parent through your own experience as a child.

You don't care if she kills herself but you do. You cannot prevent it if it is what she really wants to do. If you and the kids move to California and leave her behind how do you plan to stop it then? Short of taking her back there will always be the risk she chooses to end herself. Do you really want to spend the rest of your life with your cheating wife held hostage by the possibility she may choose to end herself if you leave her? Do you think your relationship with your children will not be damaged if you choose to stay with her?

Your wife made her choice to betray you and the kids rather easily. She didn't give any consideration to possible consequences. Now they are here and there is no escape for her.

Certainly you can talk with your wife but all you will hear is nonsense and excuses, how sorry she is, she will never do it again, she will change. Talk is cheap. She will use each conversation as an opportunity to plead her case for reconciliation.

[This message edited by smolderingdark at 8:49 PM, Tuesday, April 19th]

No I don't think my dad could have. But what my wife did isn't as bad as what my mom did, not by a longshot. So I guess my thought process is maybe there is a chance there.

My goal is to convince her to go to counseling to deal with the end of our marriage.

I also think it's important to point out she's not just talk. She pretty much does anything and everything to please me that I will let her do. She cooks, cleans, writes me letters, her thought process, all of that. But won't go to counseling. I just want her to do that. She talks to our pastor and that's great but he's got a master's in divinity not a masters in psychology (is that what counselors have?) So I think it would benefit her and complete the half that she is already getting from the pastor if that makes sense.

[This message edited by Nothere759 at 9:08 PM, Tuesday, April 19th]

My strong recommendation is to tell your WW that IC is simply not an option. All of the nice things she’s doing for you doesn’t mean a thing. Nothing at all.

Her going to IC should be non negotiable, plain and simple. It’s an excuse on her part not to do the hard work and dive deeply into what she’s done, the pain she’s caused, and learning how to correct her poor thought processes, boundaries, and actions.

By not going to IC she is telling you that she’s not willing to work hard and suffer any more than she thinks is she’s already suffered. Trust me, she hadn’t suffered an ounce compared to what she’s done to you and your kids.

She’s still displaying wayward behavior by refusing to go to IC.

I'm just writing this to vent and maybe get some insight on things

He made it crystal clear why he is here, in his first post.

He needs a safe place to vent,and ask a few questions.

He isn't here to be told he should respect his wife and her here out, or to be judged by those offended that he hates cheaters.

Not sure why that's so hard to understand.

[This message edited by HellFire at 9:40 PM, Tuesday, April 19th]

She pretty much does anything and everything to please me that I will let her do.

Well, she won't do the one thing that you actually asked for her to do. Obviously she is still very much in a wayward mindset and doesn't have it in her to even begin the work of figuring out how she gave herself permission to cheat. IC is MUCH more difficult that writing letters and making dinner, which is why she doesn't want to do it.

Her family and her are giving you every reason to feel confident in your decision to divorce. No one is considering your needs or even what you have asked for AFTER she stole your power and decided to blow up your marriage. You don't owe her anything and you can and should vent here as much as you would like.

Her kids not wanting to acknowledge her is a consequence of her choices. You can tell them you hope they continue to have a relationship with their mom but any repair work is squarely and solely on her.

Really funny that guy got upset at me that cheaters are bad people and asked what I wanted without reading even a sentence of my post. Hmmm

Your wife didn't do as much harm as your mother. Betrayal is betrayal. Your wife went ahead and did it knowing how you were affected by your mother's adultery.

It is your wife's responsibility to repair the relationship between herself and your children, not yours. To have taken the extreme position your children have demonstrates the love and respect they have for you. If you do not wish to damage your relationship with your children do not pressure them or advise them to have any dealings with your wayward wife that they do not want.

You can certainly entertain reconciliation if that is what you truly desire. Broken trust is always going to be just that - broken. You will always have doubts. There will be no going back to what you thought you had.

Your wife is doing a lot for you. A bribe is a bribe. Was she doing a lot for you before the affair? Was she doing a lot for you while she was having her affair?

But won't go to counseling.

Counselling can be helpful or harmful. Depends on the therapist you choose. They aren't all equal in experience or competence. Bottom line she does not want to get the root of the problem. She likely still has something to hide from you.

Your wife is no different from any other cheater she made many choices to go down that path she chose to go down. Everything has a price and she chose to sacrifice her family and her marriage for her fun. She did not approach you for help, guidance, or to confess her illicit thoughts/desires until after she had the chance to sample the forbidden. Her confession came after your betrayal. It is easier to ask for forgiveness that it is to ask for permission.

There are many men and women that regret trying to reconcile with their cheating spouse. There are few that regret divorcing such a person.

All the best whatever course you choose.

[This message edited by smolderingdark at 2:20 AM, Wednesday, April 20th]

Really funny that guy got upset at me that cheaters are bad people and asked what I wanted without reading even a sentence of my post.

I think you've misread me. Hellfire too, but there is no point in talking crosswise to you OP through hellfire.

I think you have a solid basis for believing your STBXW is an immoral person. I think you should jump in with both feet and own that position.

Why do you want your kids to have a good relationship with a bad person? You don't keep one with your mom.

Seems like you have set a solid and consistent example here. If you are here to vent a bit and get insight, I'm barely even adding anything here.

Why do you care if your STBXW goes to IC? She is a bad person. Not broken. There is nothing to fix.

If I were you I'd cut an even harder tack and try to get full custody by any means necessary. An immoral parent is worse than no parent.

I just don't know what you are lost about when you are so sure. Embrace your core values. They will serve you well.

I know cheaters have nothing to fix, being a cheater is who they are. It defines them. I just want her to get counseling to help her move on and not kill herself, which I've said multiple times.

I'm already getting full custody since the kids picked me.

Probably right about the kids and a relationship with her though.

It may seem disingenuous and may even go against your beliefs, but would it work for you if you dangled the "if you want any chance at all with this, my non-negotiable is that you book yourself in for secular therapy and work out why you did what you did."

You want her to get help to allow her to navigate this and if this is the one thing holding you back, then you may have to use the carrot to your current stick. The carrot is "you get help and we'll see where we are at once you sort yourself out". Make it clear to her that this what she HAS to do if she wants any hope.

The D can proceed as normal and if she asks you can just tell her that the marriage sacrament is broken so the marriage is over in the eyes of your faith regardless. The larger carrot you are dangling is that there may - and this is a huge MAY - be something for you both if she does this one thing.

Because at the rate things are progressing your stick approach will see you standing beside her grave wondering why you did what you did. When someone loses all hope and all meaning in their life, ending it all is a very easy choice to make.

So this then serves two purposes.

The first is that it gives you the chance to see her set herself up (or at least attempt) to get better as a person and to assuage any lingering guilt you seem be feeling at leaving her alone and helpless in the face of the adverse situation she has put herself in.

The second is that it gives you breathing space to get yourself sorted out. You need it and whilst you may think your actions will be the definitive line that you need to cross to move on, you know yourself that it won't work like this. It never does.

You are facing parts of you and thoughts within you that run completely counter to what in your own words to profess to be as a person. You call yourself forgiving yet you can't forgive this. You call yourself a decent person, yet you are taking actions that you know will destroy someone you stood in front of your family, friends and God and professed to love and honor in sickness and in health until death parted you. You see yourself as a person who cherishes family and friends, yet you are actively blocking and cutting off these same people.

None that makes sense and that is why you are where you are. That your wifes cheating has made you face this would be enough to drive anyone insane with rage and that comes through in your words in here.

So maybe address it like this. Dangle that carrot so that she gets her help. Use that same carrot to also help yourself. And put everything else - the future and whatever it may hold - aside until you can be both sit down in the same place and tell each other "this is what it is and this is how it will be."

[This message edited by medieval at 6:26 AM, Wednesday, April 20th]

I just want her to get counseling to help her move on and not kill herself,

As far as she is concerned what you want is not relevant to the equation. She does not believe she needs counseling. That there is anything wrong with her. This was all just a mistake.

You can dangle the carrot of reconciliation as another has suggested to see if she will go to counseling. This approach will backfire as all it will do is give her false hope. Think back to the polygraph she took.

Counseling will not be effective for your wife because she no interest in claiming responsibility for her actions or accepting the consequences. She will see therapy only as a means to an end. If there is no guarantee that she will escape divorce and loss of her family, then there is little reason for her to pursue this avenue.

[This message edited by smolderingdark at 12:13 PM, Wednesday, April 20th]

What’s the WW remorse got to do with it?

What have the consequences to her have to do with it?

In fact – what has ANYTHING the WW does have to do with it?

Early on in this thread some posters mentioned that the OP should be open to the possibility of reconciliation and got hit over the head for even mentioning it. The OP has made his view on everyone that cheats very clear – including his wife. He has also made it clear that his beliefs and convictions make him want to divorce. He’s also been very clear on his view that being a cheater permanently defines a person:

I know cheaters have nothing to fix, being a cheater is who they are. It defines them.

The ex-wife is branded as an adulteress for life. Why would OP want ANYTHING to do with her if that’s his worldview? We should be guiding him out of the marriage – in accordance with his express wishes.

The OP has never expressed any Get out Of Jail Option. There is nothing the wife can say or claim that makes her less of an adulteress. After all – according to the OP all cheaters are immoral.

Immorality. The excuse of being "broken" is thrown around here freely. That's all it really boils down to, not really a deeper reason.

And his wife is no exception:

[…]see if she fixes her immorality. This is just who she was and decided not to show it until she did this.

According to the OP views on life his wife is an immoral person – being a cheater is what she is. It defines her. What good can counseling do her? You can try to teach a snake to walk, but a snake is a snake and will be a snake and slither around no matter what change we try to make to it. We might not agree with his life-view, but it's his and he's entitled to it.

Divorce is not an alternative form of marriage. It’s the termination of that relationship, and whatever relationship is established with the then-ex is a totally new one. The OP disdain and condemnation for those that cheat indicate that relationship won’t be any more than the joint role as coparents requires. Since the kids have denounced her (more or less) and are of an age where their voice will have immense input on where they will end up then even that coparenting relationship will be extremely limited.

OP – You have already gotten a lot of advice on how to move on with the divorce. Use your legal team to move as fast through the process as you possibly can. There is no reason to remain in the house, or a legal means can be found to move your wife out of the house. Might cost extra but can be done. The court system recognizes that people don’t divorce because they get along so well, and there is really nothing that DEMANDS you stay in the same home during this process. Nothing that requires you to listen to others discouraging you. There is no reason to justify your decision to anyone other than yourself.

As you asked another betrayed husband yourself:

Wow OP. When is enough enough?

[This message edited by SI Staff at 2:24 PM, Wednesday, April 20th]

You are facing parts of you and thoughts within you that run completely counter to what in your own words to profess to be as a person. You call yourself forgiving yet you can't forgive this.

Sounds like you haven’t bothered to read the full thread. He’s already said he will forgive her one day. You seem to be one of the crowd who conflate forgiveness with R. They are very distinct matters.

You call yourself a decent person, yet you are taking actions that you know will destroy someone you stood in front of your family, friends and God and professed to love and honor in sickness and in health until death parted you.

Way to blame the victim here. SHE destroyed her marriage, her family, and relationships with friends. All of this the direct result of her choices, all the while knowing with crystal clarity OP’s history and views of his adulterous mother. WW’s relationship with God will continue if she desires that. You quote marriage vows, seemingly oblivious to the Biblical permission to divorce over "porneia" (meaning ANY kind of sexual activity outside the marriage covenant). His choice of D is not wrong in God’s eyes, who is his Judge, and not you.

[This message edited by gr8ful at 2:45 PM, Wednesday, April 20th]

Medieval

So first you tell me to lie to my wife then you play moral high ground on me? Hilarious. You sure you don't belong over in the "wayward" side with how okay you are with lying but not the end of marriages? Maybe if you go over they'll throw you a pity party...

Don't comment on my thread again

[This message edited by Nothere759 at 8:46 PM, Wednesday, April 20th]

OP - I think I’m late to the party. I’ve read through most of this thread (really just checking your progress). I wish that I had had your clarity when I felt that my world was falling apart. I, like you, believe that adultery is the only reason for divorce and that the adulterous party cannot get remarried. I also felt that infidelity was a deal breaker for me, but the waters were muddied when kids are involved. I finally pulled my own head out of my backside and filed. It was the best decision I could have made.

I know the people on this site mean the best for you and often times we include our own beliefs in our advice. This is certainly not a one size fits all scenario that we are put in. I hope you are taking care of yourself.

You have mentioned some empathy for her several times. People can actually have empathy for the person they are divorcing; they are not mutually exclusive. Empathy is not a sign of weakness, it is a sign of strength. Unless perhaps if it causes you to betray your principles. But empathy is a virtue in itself, worthy of pursuing.

Medieval

So first you tell me to lie to my wife then you play moral high ground on me? Hilarious. You sure you don't belong over in the "wayward" side with how okay you are with lying but not the end of marriages? Maybe if you go over they'll throw you a pity party...

Don't comment on my thread again

Is it a lie though (and no I'm not a WS for the record)?

You want one thing (for her to deal with this and not hurt herself) yet you do nothing to assist with this. You expect that doing nothing will accomplish something and will undoubtedly complain when it goes titsup.

Everyone in here is offering you advice and assistance, yet rather than address it or even consider it, you respond with insults. I offer an option that is outside the box and that may go some way to accomplishing what you want with no cost to you, yet rather than even look it it objectively you go straight on the attack. There is - understandably - not a very sound person responding to this thread.

If your mind is truly made up, then why are you here? Just get on with it and let your faith guide you and let what happens happens. Do you seek validation for your actions to ease your conscience? It sure as hell seems like it. So if you after some salvation or for someone to say "you are right and your soon to be ex deserves to burn in brimstone and hellfire" well sorry but you won't get that from me.

But in all honesty you do not seem interested in fixing what ails you, you do not seem interested in anything that deviates from your rather (understandably) effed up world view and you seem intent on burning down all that is around you just for the sake of justifying your past.

But when you are done and all around is just dust and embers - remember this one salient fact.

You are doing this.

No one else. Just you.

Wow you're completely lost on my thread. Did you divorce or reconcile?

My worldview (Christianity) is effed up? Gee no wonder you told me to lie!

Also my comment about going to the pity party forum went over your head, unfortunate. I thought it was pretty funny.

I'll accept your apology in advance

[This message edited by Nothere759 at 3:04 AM, Thursday, April 21st]