SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I've had experience in investigations but I hired an outside PI to gather the evidence I needed. It was worth the money.

CO,

Sorry, I guess, that you didn't get the positive proof.

I didn't think you would for some reason.

Condom, whatever.

I disagree with some here in that I think you should confront her know.

How much pain do you need?

In a M either party should be able to confront their S with their concerns.

I often wonder what proof proves, if that makes any sense.

The time to confront is when you feel something is wrong.

Before it has a chance to become a major issue.

There may be some truly great liars out there but I don't think there are that many that can sell it to a suspicious spouse.

IMHO, it's time to take action and begin to heal.

Good luck to you.

Tahiti

I was really preparing myself for a positive result after seeing what the home test did. I knew it could be negative (seeing that's how everything else about this seems to keep me in the dark), but I was less prepared for this answer, I guess. Not that I'm really sad about it or anything.

As many of you have pointed out, it could mean condoms, other sexual activity, etc., I know that's possible. It's also possible that maybe she is wanting or hoping for it to be a PA (bringing the nighty). It's also possible that they just weren't able to manage it due to the large number of coworkers around and them staying in separate hotels. I know for a fact (I posted the previous email here somewhere) that they were trying to have dinner together alone, but were unable to due to coworkers). There are many possibilities, none of which are very satisfying.

I do know that this is a full-blown EA, if not a PA, as well. The secrecy, the sexual and emotional innuendo, all point to it.

I know many of you are saying, "confront now." Not sure I'm ready, given the little evidence I have. Given that her recent suspicions have evidently resulted in decreasing their communication, I can only imagine what happens if I reveal my cards. It will all get locked down far underground, and I'll have no chance for gathering any further information. I'll also probably be gaslighted to hell.

At this point she is starting to be a little more careless (sending him personal emails). I'm in a little better information gathering position than I was a week ago. I think I have to continue in the shadows, at least for a little while.

I've put off job seeking for the past several weeks due to all of this. I need to focus on that some too, or I'll be catching hell.

I'm fine. You guys are great. One day at a time.

Sorry you have no definitive answers after all this. I believe you are definitely doing the RIGHT thing by not confronting yet. She will only gaslight you and you'll be in a much worse position. Wait until you gather more definitive evidence. Hugs to you.

(((CO)))

I can only imagine what happens if I reveal my cards. It will all get locked down far underground, and I'll have no chance for gathering any further information. I'll also probably be gaslighted to hell.

Which is a distinct possibility in any case given how relatively easy it is for them with their company phone/email security measures, and frequent travel.

CO,

I'm going to try this again and then give up.

What do you hope to accomplish by waiting?

You are already worried about what is going on and are not a happy person.

Giving her more time while you explore may also give her the time to further distance herself from you.

I just don't understand why you want to wait and possibly find more or not.

If they truly go underground are you going to be in a better place in 2 or 3 months?

If I ever get married again or into a significant relationship I will speak quicky ans encourge my SO to do the same.

As much as the problems in a relationship are no excuse for infidelity, they definitely contribute.

Nip problems in the bud.

Tahiti

Time is on your side. You have a great game plan. Stick to it.

I just spent the whole past hour reading this from start to finish. WOW is all I have to say. I am so sorry you've been going through this but please don't let anyone push you into acting sooner than you're ready to. I know many people who have given you advice as a result of what they've learned but sometimes you need to learn it for yourself AND I think you have to be comfortable as this isn't just a little lie, this is infidelity.

I hope you are doing okay and I hope you know you can reach out to us at any time. You move at whatever pace you need to. It's easy for those of us who have BTDT to say what should be done but I'm sure if they remember back to when they were as fresh as you, they didn't do things because someone else told them to. If I listened to some of the advice I was given during a rough time, wbf and I wouldn't be together. It's because I confronted him when I was ready that we are where we are. I'm not saying don't listen to the advice, I'm saying work at a pace that you're comfortable with.

(((((((((((Onions)))))))))))

ETA:

[This message edited by poopylala at 10:02 PM, April 21st (Thursday)]

(((((CO))))) I agree with everything you've said and done. Hang in there.

My WH had an EA and I confronted too soon. I could have gotten a whole lot more evidence had I been patient and waited a few weeks.

[This message edited by Blindsided37 at 12:12 AM, April 22nd (Friday)]

CO,

Sorry you are still in limbo...

Guess I'm preachin' to the choir, but no, I damn sure would not confront until I had enough evidence to know in my mind exactly what was going on. Confronted too early myself - then spent 2 yrs to the day being lied to, gaslighted, and TT. Then still will NEVER be sure I know it all. Pretty damn sure I don't!

A few weeks of wondering and investigating is miniscule in comparison to spending the rest of your married life thinking you are still in the dark...

I would be searching high and low for ways to get past the security on the cell phone.

There are companies on the net that for about 10 bucks a month will put an app on the cell phone and forward a copy of all messages to YOUR email account - 'as a backup' in case you accidentally delete a message!!!!

I would hire a PI - or hell, even call the CIA or FBI! Anything to avoid lies, TT, and gaslighting..

Hang in there!

[This message edited by stillnpain at 4:23 AM, April 22nd (Friday)]

I just sat down and read every single post that you have made. I journaled over a year before I found my concrete information that I wanted/needed - she finally had sex in her car when I had the VAR in there.

Here is what i learned from that whole experience -- it was happening whether or not I wanted to truly believe it. It was happening even though I wasn't getting my concrete results. I finally got my results and that was a blessing but the turmoil and torment that I put myself through mentally still effects me today.

You are on the right track, searching for information, and I wish you nothing but the best of luck and I pray that you get that smoking gun....but take it from someone that has been there - take care of yourself. You are a stay at home dad and that is quite commendable - but that also means you have more idle time than you probably even know. The mind movies - the scenarios that are played out in your head - I understand, I get it because I have experienced them myself.

When it comes time to confront - don't look back,don't hesitate and remember this one thing - respect is freely given until you are disrespected then it has to be earned. Either way she has disrespected your place in her life - make sure you take back that control and stay strong. You are doing great and I know you are fatigued but again, take care of yourself - that was the best advice that I never took and I am still on medication that i take daily to battle the effects that the A had on me personally!!

I am praying for you - good luck and if you need anything - just an email away!

I disagree with some here in that I think you should confront her know.

How much pain do you need?

In a M either party should be able to confront their S with their concerns.

I often wonder what proof proves, if that makes any sense.

The time to confront is when you feel something is wrong.

Before it has a chance to become a major issue.

There may be some truly great liars out there but I don't think there are that many that can sell it to a suspicious spouse.

I appreciate your sentiments, and I do understand your point. I've asked this myself repeatedly. My biggest error in all this was not being more aggressive in pursuing their communication early on. I trusted her implicitly. But now it has become a major issue, and it's too late to go back.

After reading dozens and dozens of posts and profiles here of others' experiences, from what I can gather the biggest regret has been confronting too soon without full information, and the biggest frustration has been the denial after denial of the WS, followed by the painful trickling of A details.

I basically have two choices. The first is to confront her now. I spill (or feign) what I know to her, and she either comes clean or, more likely, minimizes it, denies that there's anything to it, says they're just working friends, says there's no PA, tells me that I'm blowing things out of proportion. And then I lose any opportunity for ever finding out anything else, unless she decides to grant that to me. And most likely, it will come out in little bits to make me stop asking questions.

The second choice is to be patient and continue to gather evidence. If there's been a PA, it certainly already occurred, or it never will, given the climate. The damage is already done, be it EA or EA/PA. Remember, I wasn't really seriously digging for information until after my first post 24 days ago. I've been following Bigger's great advice -- be tactical. I have a number of things that I still need to look into. If tomorrow I pick up a message saying, "Well, you do kiss better than my husband," or something to that effect, you can be sure that I'll be all over it with a confrontation sooner rather than later.

So the second option comes from a position of strength and keeps my options open. I am still looking at this from a R perspective, although that doesn't rule out D by any means. It will largely depend on how she handles the after-effects of confrontation.

I don't like being in this situation any more than the others on here who have felt the anguish of infidelity, but I can deal with it for now. Even without a D-Day, I am much better taking care of myself and D as well.

I'm not super-human. I hate the secrecy (not just hers). I miss the intimacy, the feeling of trust and the closeness of family. I'd like to salvage what I can, and I guess this is my way of handling it, at least for now.

I just spent the whole past hour reading this from start to finish. WOW is all I have to say. I am so sorry you've been going through this but please don't let anyone push you into acting sooner than you're ready to. I know many people who have given you advice as a result of what they've learned but sometimes you need to learn it for yourself AND I think you have to be comfortable as this isn't just a little lie, this is infidelity.

Sorry you had to endure 19 pages of my woes. Thank you for your insightful words, poopylala (My 4 y/o would love your nick!).

I would be searching high and low for ways to get past the security on the cell phone.

There are companies on the net that for about 10 bucks a month will put an app on the cell phone and forward a copy of all messages to YOUR email account - 'as a backup' in case you accidentally delete a message!!!!

Sadly, not on a corporate phone. EVERYTHING runs through their servers, and they control what runs on it. A company Blackberry is a cheater's best friend. Appreciated your other comments, thanks.

Gosh Onion, I'm just so sorry you are sitting on the fence.

You know what you have to do, i agree with you..

You need something concrete, not just innuendos to confront with confidence.

Sitting on the fence is so horrible.

We're with you...

Keep on keeping on.

Wow, respectfulinfla, that's quite a story. I'm sorry you had to go through that.

Information about an affair is unquestionably a double-edged sword. You want the information, but what you find is often very distasteful and more than you bargained for.

After the first couple of weeks of hell, I decided that taking care of myself was first priority. I'm making good progress on that.

I'm filing away your words of wisdom. Thanks a ton.

Hi CO,

I've been following your posts and I'm sorry for the continued uncertainty you're now dealing with, on top of the bad stuff you already knew for sure.

My 2 cents is that you're probably wise to hold off on confronting right now. This is just an outsider's opinion, but based on what you've told us about your wife, her job, and especially the circumstances surrounding your daughter, I suspect she is actually very, very good at lying. At presenting a public image that is very different from reality and convincing everyone, maybe even herself, that the constructed image is the "real" one. It sounds like she has even enlisted you in this project where your daughter is concerned, and as anyone on this board can tell you--if they'll do it with you, they'll do it to you. I would be surprised if she didn't turn out to be a consummate gaslighter.

So I think you're right to want something more concrete before you take action. However, you should keep in mind that *getting* that something may be very difficult or may take so long that you risk going crackers before you get it. Again, just my judgment from what I've seen here, but I suspect your wife is an expert at covering her tracks; that covering up is second nature to her. So when people here urge you to confront, they're worried about you getting into a wheel-spinning mode where you start to normalize the agony of waiting, and make it into a lifestyle. If you sense that happening, you should do what you have to for your mental health, and to hell with evidence.

Also, I think you're right to focus on your job search, difficult as that may be at this time. I won't make the claim that your wife has purposefully moved you into a position of unpaid dependency in order to manipulate you, but she certainly seems savvy enough to take advantage of your stay-at-home status. She knows it gives her leverage over you. So you need to take that leverage away.

Good luck with the job search, along with everything else!

Just like to say that all you folks here on SI really warm my heart in a very special way...

We are all in this together on some level, and tho our worlds have been totally blown apart, our trust destroyed....

There's comfort in knowing that there are still good people in this world.

A renewed feeling of trust in a very different way...

Group hug!!

You are in such a difficult position right now, Onions.

The best advice I can give you is "trust your gut". That is the best way to know when to confront your wife, and how to do it.

I think a lot of us who have been through this already would tell you the same. Learn to listen to yourself, don't second-guess yourself, and certainly, don't ever try to minimize what your gut is telling you.

Had I known that 4 or 5 years ago, I probably could have saved myself a few years worth of incredible pain.

This is a great site, filled with terrific, compassionate people who have all been through the same thing, as varied as our experiences have been. It will probably save your sanity at times.

Keep us posted. We wish you well.

(((((onions))))))

Hi all...still alive here (her secret hasn't quite killed me yet).

Well I'm pretty much in the dark about her goings on. No idea if/what OM and her are discussing. She did tell me about the wine purchase that she sent to OM, only after a customs bill came to our house ("I thought I told you about that," yeah right). Says the big boss (not OM) liked the wine at their shindig overseas, so she sent some. No mention that she sent it to/?through OM though.

She's been acting pretty normal, but my snooping indicates otherwise. She changed her password on her phone after I managed to get it for a whole two or three days. I'm pretty sure she knows I tried to access it. Lots of sighs on the VR. Could be work stress, but I think otherwise. It's very strange that if she knows I'm poking around, that she hasn't said a word or acted any differently to me. I can't imagine that she thinks this is simply going to go away.

She has another trip next week. Different project, so OM will not be involved. Daughter and I are traveling with her on this one, to a warm sunny place, so at least it'll be a little R&R.

I think after this trip we are probably headed for confrontation. I'm not going to keep this up for too long if I can't get any new info. We'll see.

One minute it seems so obvious about what's going on, and the next minute I feel like I just don't have enough info to make a strong case. So frustrating. Really could use a mind reader right now.

HI CO

Have you tried to send her text with the exact phrases that you read earlier?

This can really get to her conscience, you will know by her reaction if there is something serious between them. Especially if she doesn't remember you being able to read her messages.

This could make them get more secretive but that will happen anyway when an affair is being planned.

The best way to stop an EA is to confront it! If she plans on leaving it will speed up the process.

If you want to save your marriage the starting point comes around quicker.

Further lies will only kill what you have left.

I too have read all 19 and admire your strength.

I wish you luck.