SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

People have affairs without getting married. People can even be in an affair without being in a relationship when they become the AP.

I went into marriage because I knew I'd be with my husband for life and wanted to symbolize that commitment to him.

In the years since our marriage, both of us have changed as people - that's a normal part of being human. Our relationship has also changed - that's a normal part of marriage. We've added two kids, a new career, lots of stressors, etc. Of course we've changed. I didn't expect us or our relationship to be static when we got married.

Why did he get married? He was very jaded about the idea of marriage - seeing it as just a piece of paper. I refused to marry him when he saw it as just a contract. We were living together - he could've easily cheated on me then as well, it had nothing to do with our relationship status.

So when I think about affairs, I don't really think about why did they get married. My general level thoughts on it are that people have as many different reasons as there are different relationships. Some people get married for the wrong reasons. Some people, the "right" reasons are different for them. Marriage means different things to different people. And the idea of marriage can change as they are married and grow as well. And their actual marriage can change. Nothing in it is static.

Learning to deal with feelings to me in no way involves dismissing them.

I agree, in the moment, the feelings are always real, perceived or not.

When I think of perceived feelings, I think feelings that are very real to me but others don't understand them. Which would imply a breakdown in understanding, would it not? Who's feelings are these to own?

I dream of a world where we all learn that our feelings are our own. That while others can have an impact on how we feel, they aren't always capable of responding the way we'd like them to. Two different people, two different minds, without proper understanding of what is going on in the others mind, how can we ever communicate how we feel? A level of empathy that is usually learnt, not natural. An ability to set aside ones own narrative to hear what the other has to say. Not to fix their problem, because that would be owning someone else's shit, rather to be supportive of their problem.

We all want to feel understood.

Just an example, frustration borne from someone not understanding me. While very real to me, it is in fact my own misunderstanding of why the other isn't understanding me. An expectation I've placed upon them to know exactly what to say and how to respond, only to become frustrated when they don't. So it real, or is it perceived? Is the frustration real? Sure it is. Is it their fault? Or, my own for creating an expectation? Perhaps it's my own misperception and expectations that are at fault for that frustration. I am my own worst enemy, but I don't have to be.

[This message edited by LonelyLucas at 10:45 AM, July 9th (Thursday)]

Amigone, I was going to answer the same way---perception IS reality in some cases. Especially where emotions are concerned, IMO.

It doesn't really matter if one's perception is factually inaccurate; that is what most(?) people base their decisions and actions and behaviors on, I'd say.

I'd also say that perception can't really be inaccurate when it comes to feelings and emotions---it is what it is, whether or not another person in the same relationship or circumstance would agree.

[This message edited by Darkness Falls at 11:15 AM, July 9th (Thursday)]

People marry because of biblical times and the bible says that we are supposed to. But the problem of that in this day and age is we don't live Biblically.. hence why you have adultery, fornication, murder, deceit, dishonesty, betrayal etc... People worship meaningless things and honor and respect nothing. I know as far as I am concerned if I ever leave this marriage I will never marry again.I would NEVER EVER do it again!!!!

Even in Biblical times there were still all those things. ^ Hell, there is murder in the very first book of the Bible, between the very first offspring.

[This message edited by Darkness Falls at 12:05 PM, July 9th (Thursday)]

Most cultures and religions have a form of marriage

I feel like LonelyLucas really nailed it

frustration borne from someone not understanding me. While very real to me, it is in fact my own misunderstanding of why the other isn't understanding me. An expectation I've placed upon them to know exactly what to say and how to respond, only to become frustrated when they don't. So it real, or is it perceived? Is the frustration real? Sure it is. Is it their fault? Or, my own for creating an expectation? Perhaps it's my own misperception and expectations that are at fault for that frustration.

I can understand that you have feelings regarding those perceptions and that those feelings are very real, however I think most people have a tendency to "have a change of heart" if they discover that their original feelings were not factually based. Otherwise, why would we have feelings of remorse or empathy. If our feelings are always valid and real, of our perception is always reality and it is what it is, why would we ever apologize?

For example, my husband is a recovering alcoholic. As can imagine, I have had a lot of feelings regarding his alcohism. Some of those feelings are valid, no one would ever fault me for having them, including my husband. Some of my feelings, were based solely on my perception, which helped lead me to justifying my affair. It was my perception that my husband felt he needed to drink to be around me and our children. It was my perception that if given the opportunity, he would leave our home and run as fast as he could. It was my perception that he was only waiting for someone better to come along and in the meantime he would keep himself liquored up to put up a front of being happy with me. Any alcoholic can tell you that my perception of why he had to drink is inaccurate. I understand now that I had nothing to do with his alcoholism. Although my feelings seemed quite valid at the time, I can't say they are now. As real as it all seemed to me, it did not make it any more true. Learning the facts and gaining a much more clear understanding of what this disease is what has allowed me to let go of the resentments I built. Yes, my feelings were real, but they were not appropriate for what the reality of the situation was.

I think it's possible that some of the feelings you have had may not be factually based either. I feel confident that you have misinterpreted or misunderstood your Asperger's husband on several occasions and built resentments on a lack of understanding or seeing the big picture. Understandable given the recent diagnosis, however resentments that may not have happened if you had a diagnosis years earlier.

I think it's appropriate for us to look back and reflect on how we have reacted to others. I think it's realistic to look back on some of those feelings we have had and our reactions to them and realize that we could have handled things a little differently. Sometimes, as humans, we are wrong. Being wrong about something doesn't invalidate us or the feelings we had at the time. But it can be an opportunity to grow.

So yes, "perception is reality"...at the time, for that person only, but it doesn't make it reality for everyone involved and it certainly doesn't make it right.

Otherwise, why would we have feelings of remorse or empathy

Because I realized the action I took based on the feelings I had was wrong, not my feelings. My feelings are still my feelings to this day. They have never changed and HL knows this and validates it.

I feel confident that you have misinterpreted or misunderstood your Asperger's husband on several occasions and built resentments on a lack of understanding or seeing the big picture.

I am betting that she has not misinterpreted or misunderstood much at all. Her working on her actions is a good course.

[This message edited by tired girl at 4:40 PM, July 9th (Thursday)]

tiredgirl,

The debate isn't about whether your feelings are valid. I agree that you will have feelings based on what you perceive as the reality. The part I can't agree with is that "perception is reality". It may feel real. But it isn't always. Feeling strongly about something doesn't make it more true. I can feel strongly that the sky is purple. I can feel unheard because everyone continues to tell me it's blue. But I just know it's purple. It still doesn't make it purple.

What keeps us from bending reality to fill our emotional needs?

As far as her misunderstanding her husband?

I am betting that she has not misinterpreted or misunderstood much at all

It's not a personal attack. Misunderstandings happen all the time, in real life, at work,on this forum, and especially in marriages. It's part of life. I understand she is doing the work...now. It's what got her here in the first place that I am referring to.

[This message edited by WalkinOnEggshelz at 5:12 PM, July 9th (Thursday)]

"For example, my husband is a recovering alcoholic. As can imagine, I have had a lot of feelings regarding his alcohism. Some of those feelings are valid, no one would ever fault me for having them, including my husband. Some of my feelings, were based solely on my perception, which helped lead me to justifying my affair"

Ok, so to be clear, your process you had in place was to use your feelings as a justification. I think you and I are talking about the same the, but not sure as I'm confused a bit. You admit that some of those feelings were absolutely "valid". Those feelings weren't also used to justify your affair?

My point was whether you feel that feelings were valid or not the process used to work through them was a real problem, right? Feelings are not ever justification for hurtful actions. I'm hurt, I hurt you. Or I hurt so I will engage in soothing that makes me feel better regardless of what beliefs I thrash or who I hurt. That's a problem.

You state you felt that your husband would run. He was running. Alcoholism is about escape many times, isn't it? Things get too much drinking helps numb and dull pain. That's running. I'd say that was a pretty valid conclusion. Whether he was running from you or something else the result is abandonment, correct? I'd say that's a valid feeling. Now when you take that feeling and allow it to drive the train to choices that betray your values that's where the problem is. Not the feeling. Your response to the feeling.

Would his diagnosis helped explain why he was cold, detached, and brutal? Sure. Would that have eliminated resentment? Hell no. He's an adult and while he may be wired differently he has eyes and can see how his wife is in crippling pain from his choices. As his doctor was very clear in stating time after time. A reason is not an excuse. Do you always have to understand someone to want to help them with their pain? I don't understand the way my husband's brain works. I won't as mine doesn't work that way. I still can see my husband struggle and not ignore or discount that struggle.

Isn't a very big part of owning our responsibility learning what actually is and isn't our responsibility? Our responses...our responsibility. Another's hurtful choices, not, regardless of why they're making them.

You seem to me from your post that you are almost using the same thought process, to me, as many use. It's just you have had to decide that your feelings weren't valid to not make hurtful choices instead of saying, yeah, that was really painful and I'm not going to continue that pain by compounding it with my shit response to it.

I honestly think my focus need to be my processing my feelings and making healthy choices rather than trying to convince myself they aren't valid. Feelings just are. How we respond to them is where the shit gets real. Just how I feel where I am right now.

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses. You've given me so much to think about. Tired girl, really appreciate your understanding. You seem to have experienced some similar situations.

I am sorry, amigone, I totally misinterpreted your op.

Out. Of. The. Park. !!!!!

So is it just because we are wayward that our perceptions are not "real".

I knew my "perceptions" were real. Even after my own best friend told me I was wrong, my own H told me I was wrong, of course until I busted him. You see I knew my "perception" was right. However it was my actions that were wrong, the action that I took based on those "perceptions" that were right.

Working on changing how I react to my perceptions has been what has changed me, not how I perceive things.

Working on changing how I react to my perceptions has been what has changed me, not how I perceive things.

Understanding how I perceive things is what changed my feelings. Change the perception and it changes the feelings. The reaction/response came naturally after that.

[This message edited by LonelyLucas at 6:02 PM, July 9th (Thursday)]

What if your perception is not wrong?

I feel that the focus is on the wrong thing.

Actions are always what matter.

You seem to me from your post that you are almost using the same thought process, to me, as many use. It's just you have had to decide that your feelings weren't valid to not make hurtful choices instead of saying, yeah, that was really painful and I'm not going to continue that pain by compounding it with my shit response to it.

You are almost right, amigone. I believe we are trying to get to the same place but from different sides of the coin. You are talking about feelings while I am talking about perception They are two different things. Perception is

a way of regarding, understanding, or interpreting something; a mental impression.

Feelings are

An emotional state or reaction[/quote/]

Just to clarify, I felt my perception of what was happening in my marriage was wrong. I don't tell myself that my feelings aren't valid. I ask myself if I have interpreted the situation clearly. I ask myself if I have the right information, so that I don't compound pain any further with a shit response.

What if your perception is not wrong?

It may not be wrong. Which is I why I asked the question in the first place. In the process of getting healthy I feel it's an important question to ask.

So is it just because we are wayward that our perceptions are not "real".

Is this an assumption you are making or trying to put words in my mouth for questioning a person's perspective?

I'm sorry, Walkingoneggshells. You lost me. Maybe it's differences in people. I'm very introverted and logical. I'm not sure what you told yourself about your marriage. I'm clear on my inventory of mine. I had a choice to make. I made a poor one. I'm working on the process to ensure I don't make another.

While perhaps many "perceive" things differently, or even incorrectly misunderstandings are one thing, telling someone that their perceptions aren't reality is a total different thing all together. I wasn't delusional or stupid. I was in pain. I still saw and processed information quite effectively. There was no guess work at all.

It's a bit hard to follow your posts as I feel you are conflating things that are not only different but don't have the same relationship with each other you seem to have assigned. At least for me. I believe when you speak of feelings you may be talking about emotions. Emotions are not as developed, advanced or refined. They're baser and come from a different part of the brain, amygdala and the ventromedial prefrontal cortices. Feelings are how we interpret based on life experiences, our mental associations, memories, beliefs. They hail from the neocortical part of the brain.

I wasn't pulling things out of my ass. I was very aware what was occurring and what I was experiencing. I really didn't need a translator for my husband's actions. I think you may believe those with aspergers are oblivious. They aren't, actually. They're quite intelligent, or most are. They simply don't care like those without. They are the Holden Caulfield's of the universe and while that can be charming it can also be brutal as hell and any doctor who has experience with this will tell you the same things.

I respect your knowledge and the work you've done. My path feels it may need to be a bit different. Either way, since the goal is health and the desire is to be safe, I have hope and faith both can lead there. I want to thank all of you for your help and support. Awesome people even if anonymously.

I'm clear on my inventory of mine. I had a choice to make. I made a poor one. I'm working on the process to ensure I don't make another.

What was the poor choice you made?