SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

once the WS decided to cheat, there is no more commitment to that relationship. It was ruined by the WS.

You can't hold onto something that the other person in the relationship threw away. It doesnt work that way.

I don't know man, but this is tough to argue with. The marriage gets blown to smitherines. In my case, it was never intact. I was in an open marriage...for my entire fucking marriage. If I wanted to go out on DDay and gang bang a whole goddam football team, WH wouldn't have a leg to stand on in my book.

No, I did not have a RA. We have been separated (and free) for over 2 months, and I haven't so much as smiled at another man-- not to be true to WH-- but to be true to me. I'm not . .free that way. Never have been. It takes effort to get with WTB.

But WH, no, my post DDay fidelity was in NO WAY for him.

Murder is wrong too, but when the state executes a murderer I'm not to broken up about it. It's the same thing right? The taking of human life...But you know noone had to be murdered in the first place. It could have all been prevented if the first action didn't happen. Consequences are a bitch.

I guess I am holding onto my commitment and feel good about it. i didn't throw it away. I feel my integrity is intact and wouldn't be had I had a RA.

I totally respect that, sewardak.

"Murder is wrong too, but when the state executes a murderer I'm not to broken up about it. It's the same thing right? The taking of human life...But you know noone had to be murdered in the first place. It could have all been prevented if the first action didn't happen. Consequences are a bitch."

the consequence of this, as you compare it to infidelity, is not something the betrayed doles out. the family of the murdered victim is not involved.

if someone drunk driving kills my kid i'm not going to kill theirs. and to do so retroactively would be illegal.

*Posting as a Member*

My own thoughts are this. I am responsible for my own actions, not anyone else's, and holding true to my own beliefs and values. When I look in the mirror I want to like what I see, and that is based on my own very personal feeling of standards of behavior. But what my values and beliefs are may not be shared by others. That doesn't mean others are wrong, just different than me. I can accept that, and I hope others accept that about me. Thus, I conduct myself according to my own set of personal standards, not anyone else's.

Infidelity, in any form, is not an acceptable behavior based on MY personal beliefs, but I am in no position to suggest that everyone else must conform to my thinking. My ex cheated. It wasn't acceptable for me. I divorced him. That was MY response to it and he got to reap the consequences of his choices. Retaliating in an eye for an eye way simply did not enter my mind because it is not a part of MY personal value system. My feelings about it are my own. Did I want vengeance? Certainly. Did I want him to hurt as much as he hurt me? Absolutely. But my choice of retribution centered on healing from the hurt and living a life well lived in SPITE of what he did to me. That choice fits my value system, and works for me. I also choose my inner circle based on that personal value system, but I don't vocally condemn those that don't adhere to it. They simply are not part of my life, just like my ex.

There are always going to be different feelings on this matter. I won't sit here and tell someone that is considering a RA to "go for it!" There are much better and healthier coping mechanisms. But the bottom line is the person engaging in a RA, regardless of the rationale, needs to be comfortable looking in the mirror every day and willing to sit in judgment of themselves. They don't have to answer to me or anyone else, nor have I walked a mile in their shoes to know their full story.

Just my humble two cents...

[This message edited by Phoenix1 at 2:37 PM, November 17th (Friday)]

If you are mature enough to get married, shouldn't you be mature enough to know that 2 wrongs don't make a right?

I understand many of the motivations behind RAs (DevastatedDee added a new one that I did not anticipate), but an RA is just another type of A that comes from wayward thinking, IMO.

A person who thinks an A builds up self-esteem has a lot to learn about self-esteem.

A person who seeks revenge needs to dig 2 graves.

Does it matter who doles it out? The state may pull the switch but I would gladly step in if I could in that situation.

randy - you are apparently much more concerned about justice than I am.

Look, a BS does not OWE the WS fidelity anymore. It's true and I get it.

What I'm saying is that if you want R, going out and screwing all the guys at work is not going to fix anything for the BS, and it sure as hell will complicate the attempt at R, because now you've both been going out and purposely hurting each other, which is the opposite of love. At that point, it's going to be very very hard to R in a situation that is next to impossible already. That's all I'm saying.

I get the need to do it, but it doesn't really repair anything.

We are trying R. It's damn near like wading through hell. If I go out and screw some rando, how, please explain to me, how is that going to help? I don't need to be validated by someone else. I know I can get a man. A nice man, a good looking one. I KNOW this. But I don't want to start over with someone else, have to explain to my adult kids why mommy and daddy are both skanks. I don't want that. I lost a lot of respect for my WH when he did that. I don't now want to BECOME that.

edited to say- if you DON'T want R, go out and bang the Dallas Cowboys if you think that will help. But I don't think it really does. Ask a groupie.

[This message edited by tiredofcrying59 at 5:23 PM, November 16th (Thursday)]

I do believe there are levels to this.

JFO - fuck anything you want. Vows have been proven to be shit.

Reconciliation - now you’re just a cheater too.

Separated - fuck anything you want.

I’m a woman. I could probably pick five guys a day to screw. I’ll leave him first. I won’t cheat no matter what he did.

I don’t judge those who do. But, not for me.

Cheating is cheating.

Most cheaters find some way to justify their affair:

My spouse didn't pay enough attention to me.

My spouse didn't have sex enough with me.

My spouse abused me.

My spouse didn't love me.

My spouse worked too much.

My spouse didn't work enough.

My spouse was an alcoholic.

My spouse watched porn.

I was drunk.

I was high.

S/he came on to me.

I had PTSD from the war.

I was bi-polar.

My spouse was bi-polar.

I was abused as a child.

The list is endless.

And this one, as well, is simply another justification:

My spouse cheated on me first.

If you cheat because your spouse cheated, it's simply another justification and, to me, it simply means you needed a justification you can live with, but you're still a cheater.

I get to look in the married and be proud of myself. I have the privilege of saying...I am not a cheater.

Three days after DDay1, when I followed my WW's car when she drove to meet AP2 instead of going straight to the pool jumping training (I guess, I can call it DDay1.1), I was in a blind rage, pain. I would have fucked any woman if one offered herself to me. Not to hurt WW. I don't know why. Probably because I was in shock. Can you compare my situation to when she decided to have an affair?

Later, WW said that she would give me hall pass if it would help me. I answered that if she proposes such thing ever again, she will find D papers on the table next day.

I feel that our marriage is dead. I feel that the person, I said my vows to, doesn't exist. Do I have to keep my vows to a person that doesn't exist any more? I don't feel like I have to. But I'm not going to have RA. Maybe just because I have moral high ground and I don't want to loose it?

I guess I feel that I didn't make the vows to him, I made them to the institution of marriage itself. I vowed to do this in order to live up to the sacrement. And I like looking at myself in the mirror and knowing I did that too.that is where i get my integrity. being the person I want to be.

to me it's not moral high ground, it's living true to yourself.

No offense but you sound really smug. It's great that you've figured out out to handle this massive betrayal in the perfect possible way, but you might want to tone down the finger pointing and passive aggressive speak that you're above anyone else who handles their PTSD differently. The fact is, not everyone feels the way you do. I would have zero problem looking at myself in the mirror if I decided to seek comfort in another man's arms. My marriage was obliterated.

So people who made a different decision than you, could also still be staying true to themselves.

I have no problem if people don't see eye to eye on this, and different people have different truths. But the condemning tone you've taken since post one is off putting to say the least. Congratulations that you're so happy with yourself.

***Again, posting as a member***

I guess I feel that I didn't make the vows to him, I made them to the institution of marriage itself. I vowed to do this in order to live up to the sacrement. And I like looking at myself in the mirror and knowing I did that too.that is where i get my integrity. being the person I want to be.

to me it's not moral high ground, it's living true to yourself.

Again, I agree with sewardak. I value my integrity and I'm not going to throw it away for somebody who didn't stay faithful to me. If I feel strongly enough that I want to get revenge, then I'd just divorce instead. As it turns out, I did get divorced and I've not had to do a single thing to my exwh for him to feel the painful consequences of what he did. His life is a reflection of it everyday.

Like I said, I believe that if you point the finger at your WS to justify having your own affair then you also get to accept responsibility for driving them to cheat in the first place. They, too, can say the BS originally broke the vows of the marriage in some way and that pushed them to be unfaithful. Plus, if you say the marriage is null and void after dday and you can now sleep around, well then so can they.

I don’t think sewardak sounds “smug” at all.

This is her thread about something she wanted feedback on. She does not have to pull punches when stating her beliefs. Just as no one else does who answers her.

smug: having or showing an excessive pride in oneself or one's achievements.

That is exactly how it's come off to me, sorry. And you're right, she's free to share her opinions just as I'm allowed to share that it comes across as smug. I doubt I'm the only one who took it that way, either. But that's ok. All good.

Yup, she posted and will get many replies.

All good here, too. Your replies are as valid as anyones.

My reply was i didn’t think she was smug. And, I know the definition of smug.