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Thing is it's easy for me to say all this now that I'm 4 years out.

There is the key. At time out. Time to fix, change, heal.

Always take into account who the BS are and where they are in healing, Dday, R. It stands to reason that some that are fresh in the pain are going to say they wish they didn't know. It stands to reason that WS that haven't reconciled themselves are going to say they wish they never told. Seeing the current pain, feeling the current shame and guilt. How many are having a shitty R and the BS and WS are at each others throats and probably are in a relationship that really shouldn't be saved?

However, how many that really gave R a chance and did it regret and feel they never should have told?

Yeah it is painful as all Hell for everyone involved. It doesn't last forever. If R is done right. If your spouse wants to R. The people that come out of it and the marriage are better then before.

But, easy for me to say because it worked.

Zug

That may be true based upon yours and ES moral code. Everyone’s moral code is based upon their own belief system. As with religion or politics, IMO there is no defined right one. Some people believe in God and some are atheists; are the people who worship God any more moral than the ones who don’t? All you have to do is look at the scandals in the Catholic church to see how moral some people of religion are. I do not believe not confessing is an immoral act. I’ve stated my reasons ad nauseum and no one will probably ever convince me otherwise. There are consequences for every action, both good and bad. This may turn out to be the smartest or stupidest thing I’ve ever done. If it blows up in my face, I have no one to blame but myself.

That being said, I always appreciate your input even if I don’t always agree with it.

ff4152,

Everyone’s moral code is based upon their own belief system. As with religion or politics, IMO there is no defined right one.

Seriously? Slavery is A-okay as long as the slave holder thinks it's moral? Genocide okay as long as the person doing the killing believes it's moral? Honor killings? Forced child marriage? Sex-trafficking? Girls being denied an education? Child molestation? Physical abuse? In your opinion, nothing is immoral as long as the person doing it believes that it is? Do I understand your position correctly?

ES

You have an uncanny knack to twist what I said to some weird extreme. Murder, slavery, child molestation etc. are wrong and obviously not what I was referring to.

I find it a bit disquieting that you tried to inject that kind of narriative into what I said. You decry me as being immoral simply because I do not agree with your stance on confessing. As I accurately pointed out, just because I do not agree with you in this particular issue doesn’t make me immoral or wrong. If you choose to believe it’s wrong, that’s fine for you but doesn’t make my belief any less valuable or wrong. According to your logic, anyone who disagrees with this belief of yours is immoral which is, according to my beliefs, wrong. If I’m to understand you correctly, both BS and WS are immoral if they agree with me. Am I understanding you correctly?

ff4152,

You have an uncanny knack to twist what I said to some weird extreme.

I took you at your word that you don't believe there is any absolute morality. I am aware that

Murder, slavery, child molestation etc. are wrong and obviously not what I was referring to.

But why are they wrong? The answer to that question is what lies at the heart of this matter.

Why do you believe those things are wrong and how are they different from what you are doing to your BS by keeping her in ignorance?

ES

But why are they wrong? The answer to that question is what lies at the heart of this matter.

Why do you believe those things are wrong and how are they different from what you are doing to your BS by keeping her in ignorance?

At a very simplistic level, murder, rape, child molestation, slavery etc all cause significant emotional an/or physical harm to an innocent. Horrible acts perpetrated on someone through no fault of their own. Infidelity falls into that category as well. I feel confessing is the same thing; IMO doing so doubles down on the harm inflicted an innocent.

In the end it really doesn't matter what your moral code is for a cheater (this addressed to all that don't tell since I obviously need to make that clear). It really only matters what your BS moral and ethical values are. If your BS is the type of person that values truth and honesty, then your choice is pretty clear. Then you are taking away a right that they most likely value in their independence. If your BS is of the opinion that what you don't know can't hurt you, then your answer is clear. Then maybe one can say they are protecting them. The moral code of what you don't know cant hurt you got me here. Enough said.

This is very interesting to me and got me to thinking.

My H’s grandpa had sexual abuse his mom when she was younger. It was his step daughter not legally her dad. Never know if this was true or not. When my H was 18 or 19 years old was told by mom what really happen to her by him. His mom always had H around his grandpa, family events, weekend vists ect....Never knew anything bad towards his grandpa. He didn’t know any better growing thinking he was a loving grandpa. So my question would do you think it’s ok to let a person know as an adult who a person really was in the past? If the person got help for it and was better now is telling the truth later the right thing to do? When they didn’t think any different growing up?

Would that be ok to keep information from someone who a person was really in the past who got help and was better and they never knew anything different growing up? Or tell them the truth because it’s the right thing to do later when they are an adult?

That isn't a marriage. Based on fidelity and honesty. Comparing veges to fruits here.

But as far as a pedophile goes. That was a mother bringing their child around a known pedophile. It was wrong IMO. We have the same situation in our family. My wife's half brother is a pedophile. He has never been around or seen our children. They know who and what he is. We have shown them pictures so that they know him if he was ever to approach them. We haven't spoken to him in 10years. Even when pressured by her mother to bring our children around during holidays and reunions, we chose not to go till he left. I wouldn't want my child to even be seen by a monster even if there was a cage he was in to keep him from touching them. IMO a parent should tell their child what a person is capable of in that regard. Another precaution to keep them safe from pedophiles. Not, to mention a man like that who can prey upon a child shouldn't benefit from a relationship with a child.

But I am confused Godheals. Are you saying it is okay to lie and manipulate in some situations? That it is understandable? I really don't understand if you are drawing correlations to lying and manipulating in a marriage (especially if religious vows are taken) to withholding information from someone about a pedophile? One being a sanctity of honesty and fidelity and the other a family relationship.

I seen ES and FF was talking about moral code of other situations. I used the story as an example since it was true. Bottom line is we all know what’s right or wrong no matter how different the situation is. Infidelity, child abuse, spouse abuse, sex tracffering, murder ect.... All could be in a different level of lying or betrayal but it should no matter what level it is on it’s all wrong at the end of the day.

I was only asking and sharing that story because to this day my H wish he never knew this about his grandpa because we don’t know if it’s true or not. Certain family members said hell no mom made up lies. Other said it was true and he got help. So he thoughts on his grandpa growing up on being loving, compassion and a decent man to him was destroy without knowing if it was true. H said he wish his mom never told him that.

Just because I asked a question don’t mean I believe it. Was just asking it to see what others thought on that

[This message edited by godheals at 4:25 PM, March 7th (Wednesday)]

What reason would his mom have to lie? It is a pretty horrible thing to make up. Why did she choose to tell him? To protect him? To let him know that things are not always what it seems? To teach him that people can change? To get his grandson to hate him?

We told our kids about what I did because we chose to show our kids what happens when people are selfish and make bad choices. Then to show how to fix those bad choices and to show forgiveness when people earn it.

Was just wondering why you would bring it up. Though again it is apples and carrots to me. Two major different things. His grandfather didn't make a commitment of fidelity or take vows and break them to his grandson. His opinion of his grandfather changed why? Because of the love he has for his mother and it hurt him to know this man hurt his mother that way? Because he might have a daughter himself and not want the girl to be left alone with grandpa? Because like myself, you have formed opinions on the morality of a pedophile? This proves my point. Other people have set moral and ethical values. Their lives are impacted by the people that cross them. Opinions are formed and future behavior is set based on their self value in regards to the ones that cross those boundaries.

Why would his mom make this up? Don’t know why. There are a lot of horrible things out there that people do that don’t make sense. She become the black sheep of the family when she choose drugs over her kids and lied to everyone when borrowing money for “bills”. Hated her mom for cutting her out and maybe seen him as a easy target. Again we don’t know if it’s true. Again you think that just because I asked the question don’t mean I believe to hide a pedophile or their actions. Some people like my H never wanted to know that only because he don’t know for sure if he was the truth. He seen his mom struggle with drugs for many years and the family cutting her off and then attacking the grandpa to try to destroy the family. Some people don’t what to know certain things because of how they always remember them. Like I said my H is one of them. And again I only used one example when they are many other examples out there and it don’t mean I think it’s right. Everyone has there own way of wanting to know things or handling things in certain situations.

“Two major different things”. Yeah it is. But because is it does one mean less then the other?

“Because like myself, you have formed opinions on the morality of a pedophile? This proves my point.” And what point of is that? Again you take one thing that someone questions and think that is how they think also. Sometimes a question can be just a question without it being taken apart and formed an opinion for yourself on how they think about this.

ff4152,

At a very simplistic level, murder, rape, child molestation, slavery etc all cause significant emotional an/or physical harm to an innocent. Horrible acts perpetrated on someone through no fault of their own. Infidelity falls into that category as well. I feel confessing is the same thing; IMO doing so doubles down on the harm inflicted an innocent.

So...slavery. Do you think what you are doing to your wife has anything in common with slavery?

ES

So...slavery. Do you think what you are doing to your wife has anything in common with slavery

Not at all.

She enjoys the right of self-determination then?

I can save you a step. I’m going to say yes and you’re going to list all the reasons I’m wrong. Is that pretty much how this is going to play out?

It seems as if you are suffering from cognitive dissonance. If it were true, would that be important to you? Logic is one way to test whether it's true. Shouldn't something as important as your thinking on this, the thinking that is having such a tremendous impact on another human being, actually hold up under scrutiny?

I'm interested in 1) whether you believe she has the right to self-determination and 2) whether you think she actually enjoys that right at present.

So yes and yes?

It seems as if you are suffering from cognitive dissonance.

Before diagnosing personality traits in others, I would ask you to take a look at your own. Why do you seem so hell bent on pushing your narrative? What is driving your incessant need to be right? During this dialog of ours, you've managed to call me and like minded thinkers, immoral. You've likened my decision to murder, child molestation and slavery. IMO, there is no disconnect in thinking murder, pedophilia, slavery etc. as objectionable while feeling that not confessing as being the correct option.

ETA - This thread has been hijacked long enough and I’ve said all I need to say. I’m out.

[This message edited by ff4152 at 9:09 AM, March 9th (Friday)]

It's really starting to feel like a thread jack here. This person is struggling and we're now on their thread debating the tell versus not tell. There are many schools of thought on this. While I am satisfied in telling, my IC advised me against it, as did a couple of other people that I went to that were of a moral position . I think you guys are at an impasse, maybe we can have a better discussion if ff5142 decides to start a post on whether he should tell. Or if others want to start a post on that subject. Right now his mind is made up, and without the benefit of really knowing him or his wife we never really can say whether it's the right decision.

Anxious- I am wondering if you should ask the person what happened? I suppose that she could lie but maybe if she tells you anything it will help your memory. If you do decide to tell you wife she is going to want to ask her as well so you might as well know her narrative. Then, of course go NC.