SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I have noticed more WW pine over their AP and it seems their affairs were more exit affairs.

Statistics back this up (at least the last part), women are much more likely to have an exit affair than men.

Rideitout I can't quote you, but it was something about how any man having a 1 on 1 interaction with an attractive woman is basically waiting for a turn in the conversation to get to that point or some such. It really is a sign of objectifying a person. Trust me, I have encountered plenty of people (men and women) who have treated me differently than less cute people. I avoid those people and find them creepy because they are treating me different based on something that I literally can't control. Everyone can control how they treat others.

Yes, you can. I do control how I treat others, and I think I do it well. But I have a sort of force-field in place around myself when I'm around women I find attractive. I avoid them like they have the plague. I won't talk to them, I really try to get out of times when I have to see them at all, because, I know what's in my head. And my W would not be happy with it. And I can't control it, no matter how much I want to, I just can't. I can control how I act, and I do, but it doesn't change the underlying message that's rolling around in my head.

Read some studies on it. You will see, I'm not alone. In fact, I don't even think I'm in rare company. What I am is willing to tell you the unvarnished truth where most everyone else will lie to you. Are all men like me? Of course not. Are a lot of men like me? Yes, they are. I know that to be a true statement because I know a lot of men, and more are like me than not. The best example of this, IMHO, is testimonials from women who lose a lot of weight, or women who get plastic surgery. Suddenly, men treat them very differently. Not "one man", men in general. It's subconscious for me, but I'm aware I do it, and that's enough to try to avoid it whenever possible.

I'm sorry that you aren't capable of being around women you find attractive and can't see them as regular human beings. As I said I appreciate that you are honest and really I wish all men who can not bring themselves to see women, no matter their appearance, as just people worthy of the same respect and treatment as anyone else would do us the favor of segregating themselves. Of course, that would end up with even less opportunities for women to be successful in the workplace as so much of it depends on networking.

I respect you as a person and the fact that you know your limits but I definitely feel as though you paint men with a broad and simple brush. Recognize too that the men you run with might not have much in common with different circles of men. Confirmation bias probably also plays in for both of us though.

To answer the original question, it boils down to

the sex.

Even though the world has shifted more to the left

people still she the woman's role is to be the gate

keeper of sex, this is by men and women.

So it is more damaging to the BH in that his WW gave

away sex to another man instead of himself. A BH

does not care that she told her OM that she loved

him.

Also women usually give up sex to get her needs met

from her OM. She is not there for the sex. The sex

is her currency.

A BW cares more that her WH told the OW that he

loved her more than the sex he had with her.

A WW appears more remorseful (not meaning to

lessen their effort or intent) because she has

to work so much harder to over come the damage

her having sex with her OM did to her BH.

Pink! WOW! Our MC said this TONIGHT...

I've often thought as a WW it has been harder to reconcile,it is more of an uphill battle to reconnect with a BH

I would have to agree because I am a BH and I read posts by WW and all their concerns are exactly what I have to deal with.....

Men have a harder time because.... (Google it) But it's interesting that WW are more likely to post in the forums and seek help/counsel.

Thank you for your posts. I read them often for insight.

Just read oldtruck's post.

EXACTLY RIGHT

Thanks Oldtruck...

Even though the world has shifted more to the left people still she the woman's role is to be the gate keeper of sex, this is by men and women.

This isn't some artificial construct. It's not "the world" that's causing this. Women are the gatekeepers of sex. And they always will be. They have much more to lose in a sexual encounter, both in the single/dating world and especially in an A. They are smaller and not as strong, they can get pregnant, they catch STDs more easily. And, as much as I'll probably get shouted down for this, most aren't nearly as sexually motivated as a typical man. So, more to lose, less interest/drive, physically more dangerous and usually less fulfilling.. They are always going to be the gatekeepers; at least until such time as men have little/no interest in sex with women (because of technology replacing sex as the primary means for men to satisfy their sex drives). Then maybe things will change because the sex drives will "even out" by men having more sex with technology and less with women (the dystopian nightmare we're heading for with non-stop porn as the first stop on this highway to hell).

A BH does not care that she told her OM that she loved him.

You're right for me. I asked, it was answered, and I really felt almost nothing when she said "yes". It was a fantasy; it's easy to "love" something that's not real. And the operative part is "loved" (not LOVE). Feelings change. They are fleeting, here today and gone tomorrow. The sex though, that will always be real. He really was inside my wife. She really had sex with him anywhere he wanted to. No amount of refocusing on the past will ever change those facts.

It's because Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus. True fact!

Men and women are both equal in this.

If you cheat, you destroyed the marriage. You knew it was wrong and you still did it. You didn't care what your husband or wife thought.

You only regret that it stopped because you got caught and now you have to face the consequences of your actions.

Many men will just get quiet or get into shouting matches. Men generally will keep to themselves.

Women want to talk and if their husbands don't... they go somewhere else to talk like forums.

Women who cheat are not more remorseful. They regret getting caught like men. Both sexes are regretting they got caught. Only then do you see the damage you caused and if your spouse doesn't leave he puts rules on you like no opposite sex friends, kill friendships of those who helped you, no contact, making you own up to what you did, open access to everything, etc. You regret you can't have the trust you once had.

If you were truly remorseful you wouldn't have gone out with the person after you got the first dirty feeling.

Again this is equal for both sexes.

What is probably true is more women will forgive their husbands then husbands forgives wives.

Fact. If you cheated you knew it was wrong and you did it anyway. You only regret that you got caught. If you didnt get caught youd either still be in it or youd keep it a secret till you got caught. Very few people will admit to an affair. People will admit to a ons easier due to guilt. But an affair you got emotionally tied.

For me having someone say women are more remorseful is an insult to any betrayed spouse and proves the cheater is trying to justify what they did.

I was going to add some opinions and my thoughts to this post, I meant to come back and write out my reasons to what makes it hard to reconcile with a BH and my thoughts on why WW may feel the need to act or behave in a more remorseful way or show it more. I had some good thoughts I wanted to share.

But the post got away from me, and I got tired. Let's just give everyone what they want...burn us all at the stake. We cheaters get what we deserve and none of us are remorseful because we are just mad we got caught. Oh, and it was for sure a choice, and a decision, not a mistake, we are not allowed to use that word anymore, ever. We all shall wallow in self loathing for the rest of our pitiful miserable existence.AMEN.

I meant to come back and write out my reasons to what makes it hard to reconcile with a BH and my thoughts on why WW may feel the need to act or behave in a more remorseful way or show it more.

It sounds to me that you really do not grasp what true remorse is. It is more than acting or behaving remorseful - true remorse goes far, far deeper than that.

Let's just give everyone what they want...burn us all at the stake. We cheaters get what we deserve and none of us are remorseful because we are just mad we got caught. Oh, and it was for sure a choice, and a decision, not a mistake, we are not allowed to use that word anymore, ever. We all shall wallow in self loathing for the rest of our pitiful miserable existence.AMEN.

And this right here is very telling as to how little you understand the concept of remorse. Someone who is truly remorseful does not have a tantrum like this. They have humility, compassion, understanding and emotional maturity.

You need to stop writing how much more remorseful you are compared to others. That's a bunch of shifting. If I was your betrayed husband and I read this. I would be totally upset as I see this as z means of you justifying things and trying to tell him "get over it already".

Men snd women cheat. Women are not more remorseful than men when they get caught.

Men and women are equal. Dont try to sugar coat it. You need to own it.

Its not a tantrum. I don't get the need to tear people apart. Its going on in another thread right now on this page.

I'm confused as to think that posters here don't also grasp that we have a betrayed spouse at home. We are also living it daily. It seems like that aspect is missed by so many BS that post here, they think what we post on this board in one moment in time, summarizes our whole journey thus far. I wouldn't be 16 months into reconciliation with my husband if he didn't feel I was doing the work. And he does read SI.

I don't have to be perfect every day. Sometimes I am allowed to have a tantrum and a pity party and feel bad for myself, does that cancel out my remorse, shame, sadness, guilt, fear,etc etc from the past 16 months? No, it doesn't. Can I call my BH and say, hey, I'm having a really bad day and I'm struggling, yes. Would that prompt him to scream at me and telling me I don't get it and I need to be remorseful at all times, no (but that is the reaction on these boards). Reality is that we are all human, we all have ups and downs, we all have high and low moments on this path to recovery. There are ebs an flows. Ripping people to shreds and rushing to judgments and conclusions does not do any one any good.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 10:24 AM, June 29th (Friday)]

Agree ^^

I think when you have true remorse, you don't give a shit about consequences or how the world views you. Appearances and damnation doesn't matter. All that matters is the pain of the person you hurt. It takes time to get out your self serving mindset though.

Oh pinkpggy, I’m not tearing you apart. I’m explaining why your language is concerning to me. You’re not receptive, I get it. I’m not in the burn the witch group, and I’m not saying all waywards suck. I’m pointing out an issue I am seeing with YOUR posts these days, and this thread has more of it.

You are being insensitive and defensive. You don’t see it and that’s fine. You’re not willing to consider my point, that’s fine. But these are overreactions to betrayed spouses who are trying to help. If you’re feeling attacked, maybe that says something about you more than me.

Enough from me. You’re not open.

[This message edited by gtflng at 2:57 PM, June 29th (Friday)]

Pink

You can not grasp that you have a cheaters mindset. You need to stop.

I happen to to on the other side of the fence. My ex wife cheated on me. She had the blame shifting trickle truth etc down just like you.

Dont tell me I cant understand. I can and I do. I posted this because if you truly want to help your husband listen to those men who have been betrayed and do what they suggest rather than listen to other cheaters.

Dont tell me I cant understand. I can and I do. I posted this because if you truly want to help your husband listen to those men who have been betrayed and do what they suggest rather than listen to other cheaters.

I joined this site in Oct 2017. My D-Day was March 2017. I spent a lot of time flailing before coming here. Reading here from those BH who are insightful and are in R has been truly helpful and eye opening and has led me to better understand my husband. I believe for me at that point I truly began to understand what reconciliation meant and what work I would have to do. It also made me look at myself, and boy was that UGLY. But as I got stronger, things got clearer and I was able to navigate my way better. Sure I still stumble and fall but I don't those stumbles stop my journey, I don't give up. I've learned that it may cause a set back, but it gives me more motivation to keep moving forward to find the best version of myself.

My own husband asked several TANGIBLE things from me to show him I was serious about reconciliation. As of this past Tuesday, I accomplished the biggest one, and he told me he was very very proud of me and couldn't believe how far I have come. Things are good in my household. Posts on this board are not always an indicator of what is going on at home or internally in my relationship, its a glimpse or small snap shot into what is on peoples mind at a certain time. It doesn't encompass all of my journey of recovery.

Its not a tantrum.

What would you call it then?

I don't get the need to tear people apart

.

What specific things are you viewing as "tearing people apart"? Do you think people should be sugar-coating their responses to you? Coddling you?

I don't have to be perfect every day. Sometimes I am allowed to have a tantrum and a pity party and feel bad for myself, does that cancel out my remorse

No one is saying you have to be perfect. That's not realistic and it's not the point.

When a person is genuinely remorseful they don't engage in pity parties, tantrums or feeling sorry for themselves. That is indicative of unhealthy shame, and genuine remorse does not exist in the presence of unhealthy shame. That is the point you are missing.

That is indicative of unhealthy shame, and genuine remorse does not exist in the presence of unhealthy shame. That is the point you are missing.

I'm not missing that point. I don't agree with that point. Do I think I am out of the unhealthy shame phase, no. But do I think that cancels out true remorse, no. I don't think anyone can be there at 16 months.

There is a saying I heard once...

If you run into an asshole on your way to work, you ran into an asshole.

If everyone you ran into on the way to work was an asshole, you're the asshole.

Please understand, I'm not calling you an asshole pinkpggy, but if you feel attacked from everyone, there might be some wisdom in taking a step back and evaluating your own behavior.

Today I will gladly wear the asshole hat. I will own it. I am just frustrated lately on the attacks on this page! You have been on my case since day ONE XHZ, even my BH was like, why is this guy antagonizing you, whats his issue!! So I'm used to you by now, the others not so much.