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After my first Dday confrontation, my ex unexpectedly threw back in my face, "You've had an affair, too!" As in, tit for tat, we're even now.

The problem was his accusation was completely false. He knew it, but he was grasping at any excuse to justify his own infidelity. However, had I wanted to live up to that accusation, he just opened the door for me to do so. But that's what he wanted. He wanted me to sink to his level so as to remove the moral high ground from me. I never even considered it. It's not who I am. I like what I see in the mirror.

The reason I posted is because although we are in R i still cannot fully forgive.

This ^^ speaks volumes to me because I was the same way. I will never forgive my ex, and I knew that from Day 1. However, I chose to walk away from the marriage instead of staying and trying to get some kind of revenge. Leaving the toxic situation was a much healthier response than staying, mired in the unhealthy thoughts, stuck in the anger of it. It wasn't about revenge (via my own infidelity) at any point for me. Rather, it was more about reclaiming my own sanity and well being. I was angry. White hot rage anger. I wanted to see him meet a grisly demise without me dirtying my own hands.

But once I removed his toxicity from my life, the anger began to dissipate. It was the emotional distance and time that worked its magic on me. Not any kind of revenge. The mind movies stopped and I reclaimed my life. It didn't require taking a page from his playbook, and my personal integrity remained intact. Even though his actions may have broken the marital contract, I am still of the belief that MY marriage vows were still intact until the divorce. Everyone is different in that regard, but I know the guilt of forsaking my vows would have heaped another layer of mental shit to slog through. I am glad I took the high road even with the hall pass he gave me.

As my kids say, you do you, Boo Boo. What works for one doesn't always work for another. But if you feel you may never forgive, then you might want to really think about why you would want to remain in this marriage. It sounds like a recipe for a very unhealthy and ongoing toxic relationship. If you think you may get there at some point (and it DOES take time), I suggest IC for both of you.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 12:49 PM, November 4th (Monday)]

Not that it really matters since people don't act in accordance, but I think it is worth pointing out if one truly believes that marriage is a covenant:

With a contract, if one agreeing party does something in violation of the contract then it is considered broken. The whole contract becomes null and void. Basically the signers of a contract agree to hold up their ends as long as the other signatories hold up theirs too.

With a covenant, both parties agree to hold up their ends regardless of whether the other party keeps their part of the agreement. A violation of a covenant by one party doesn’t matter as far as the other party’s responsibility to continue to do what they agreed to do.

It depends on your goal. If your aim is to restore some of that broken pride/ego after your SO cheats on you, then a RA is a good solution and doesn't take any real work. But if you're trying to repair the marriage, then it's counterintuitive to that goal.

Marriage should never be about keeping score. Nor should you really do that in any level of friendship or family. That's like getting pissy at a friend who didn't want to cover the whole check for a night out when you did it the last time. It makes unhealthy and superficial friendships and makes marriages dumpster fires.

In this case it is what it is and you have to deal with your own consequences but sorry you should have thought about your RA partner better than to go for someone involved in something that you are very passionate about. Hurt people hurt people. Responsible people do something to end the cycle instead of spreading the pain.

I wrote about a friend who did something like this, But I would not call it a revenge affair for the reasons he did it. He was in a state of constant Pain and Anger. He did it to feel wanted again, To feel good and anything besides the anger he was feeling toward his wife. The got back together, It hurt her to hear this but she understood it and the pain she caused him. Thy are still together now....

The reason I posted is because although we are in R i still cannot fully forgive.

So basically, to sum it up, you had a RA to "even the score" in your mind but are still struggling in your marriage and are having a hard time forgiving your wife.

Additionally, she is hurt and upset by your actions and your choice to continue seeing the AP.

Yeah, sounds like things worked out real well here.

"He did it to feel wanted again, To feel good and anything besides the anger he was feeling toward his wife."

Revenge is wrong no matter what the reason or what happened. Revenge destroys people and many times innocents. Revenge is not a good emotion to act upon, ever.

The anguish of feeling unwanted, unworthy, or not desirable is another force altogether. This is where rebound affairs come from. The damage caused to innocents can be similar so it's definitely something one would want to avoid. But I can't bring myself to condemn anyone when they're looking for reassurance.

It sounds like Buzzy's RA was driven by revenge rather than reassurance. His WS is now receiving the consequences of her actions causing him to step up in an unexpected and forceful way. I don't feel sorry for her. It'll be interesting to see if the marriage survives the fallout.

Your RA did absolutely nothing for the good of your present and future marriage. This well she did it first so I'm gonna get even doesn't do anything. It just makes everything worse. Could I have went a screwed one of my wife's friends as revenge, sure. I was not going to stoop down to her level. I never wanted revenge (that's me) but there sure as hell were consequences, divorce. Everyone is different but when you're keeping score to make things even in a relationship, the relationship itself may be doomed.

You missed what I said in the first part of my post. I said I would not call it a revenge affair and neither did he! He was in pain and wanted it to stop even for a little while. He said it helped and he and his wife are still together, I am in no position to chime in on why this worked and neither are you. All i know is they are still together years later. so obviously it worked...

But I can't bring myself to condemn anyone when they're looking for reassurance.

I can appreciate that. I don't condemn him, I feel badly that he put his stock into an R affair to help "fix him". It's the same mentality that WS's use...we're looking for "reassurance" as well. The problem is that when you go looking for reassurance by having an affair, you will never find it. Whether it's for revenge or not. You will just be sadly disappointed and whatever you thought was going to help you ends up making your situation 1000 times worse. I like something Sassy always says, something to the effect of she doesn't believe there is such thing as a revenge affair, there is only an Affair. And, what he is doing is what every other wayward is doing, but maybe with motivation that many people can be more sympathetic towards.

In the end, I would not advise against it because of their WS, I would advise against it because at some point he is going to have a lot of regret and things in himself to mend that he wouldn't have had without this RA.

when you use another person to fix yourself you're not fixing yourself.

He was in a state of constant Pain and Anger. He did it to feel wanted again, To feel good and anything besides the anger he was feeling toward his wife.

My betrayer dumped me for her AP. I very quickly entered into a highly sexual rebound relationship with another woman, for exactly the reason quoted above, and I will say that the new sex did make me feel good. The feeling of being wanted sexually after the massive rejection that accompanies learning of a betrayal, it was like a drink of water for a man dying of thirst in a desert. I may be in the minority here on SI. I would never fault a BS for finding comfort in the bed of another while in the throes of post Dday pain.

However, I would agree that if it is done for revenge, that's not going to solve the problem. And I also agree that it risks muddying the waters even more than they are muddies by the A.

[This message edited by Butforthegrace at 4:10 PM, November 4th (Monday)]

I have struggled with revenge affairs. I am mixed on how I see them. I personally don't blame anyone and think it is a somewhat natural thing to want to do.

I think in my situation my WW needed it to happen. She is so self centered that it took a jolt to see the pain she caused. Making it her pain was needed.

Did I feel better, honestly, yes. She got to experience someone different and new. It seemed to "re-balance" as you put it.

Now that I am older, and hopefully wiser, I wish I never had taken part of revenge affairs in the past. Mostly because I am not a cheater, or I don't want to be one. I want to be a man of honor. I want to like who I see in the mirror. No matter how justified it was, I still touched another woman while I was married.

Someone on here told me once, if your spouse cheats you can always get rid of them, but if you cheat, that is a cheater you can never get rid of.

"You missed what I said in the first part of my post."

I don't know if you meant this for me 'dblackstar2002' but if it was I meant to indicate that I was agreeing with you to the effect that there are cases where as you noted, a BS is just trying to feel better about themselves.

Sorry if it sounded like I was slamming your post. I didn't mean to.

FWIW, I understand why many (most?) BSs consider an RA after the indescribable pain of betrayal.

The thing is, an RA is never going to be a real option to anyone who values their own moral code and personal integrity. Never.

I’ve shared this before, but for several years before my H cheated (and the subsequent discovery of what he was doing), our M was on the rocks. I fully understand those WSs (especially the WWs) who talk about being lonely in their M, especially those who cheated because they sought affection from someone who would listen to and try/want to understand them. I get it.

The difference is that the thought of cheating was and always will be completely and utterly unacceptable to me. And it has nothing to do with my spouse (who, at the time, I was certain would not have cared - and I was more right about that than wrong). No, I couldn’t have done it because it would have been a violation of my own values.

So even when I wanted very much for my H to feel the agony and grief and pain he’d inflicted on me, an RA was never an option because cheating for any reason was also never an option for ME - betraying my WH would have meant I’d have to betray myself, and that simply was not an option.

Which is to say, if it works for you, it’s because there was already something in you that allowed you to do that - and you can’t put that on your spouse. For the OP to have a different set of rules for him vs his wife after his RA is patently unfair. His wife’s A doesn’t give him a hall pass to betray HIS OWN values unless, deep down, they were negotiable anyway.

A revenge affair is comparable to trying to fix a blown left front tire by letting the air out of the front right tire of a vehicle.

I think a RA is a needlessly cruel thing to inflict on an innocent person. You're literally using your AP just to get back at your spouse.

The OP's justifications are entirely selfish, and that's just not cool.

BS here. I agreed to not cheat on my spouse no matter how hard it got. And being cheated on is hard. I can relate though that compromising my morals might make the difficult time easier, but it would be hard to live with myself knowing I can compromise such morals. WS have to live with themselves every day for the rest of their lives. I can choose if I don't want to live with one.

Also what good does it do? WS pretty much didn't care about the marraige anyway? You think they're even going to get hurt by you cheating? They don't care about you even when you're giving them your all.

[This message edited by RedHeadTemper at 4:25 PM, November 4th (Monday)]

I'm not going to slam the OP. I get it.

The initial betrayal and years of BS (not blind spouse) that I went through prior to my STBX's discovered A lead me to a very unhealthy way of thinking. I ended up discovering more A's prior to this one. Should I have left then... you bet. I often wish I had chosen a different path but we get no do-overs in this.

Difference after my A is I got help. I went to therapy. I told my STBX about my A. He did none of those things.

I think a RA is a needlessly cruel thing to inflict on an innocent person.

I agree but I wouldn't exactly call the 'WS' an innocent. While my RA was cruel and unjustified it helped me understand more about myself and what I needed to fix in myself, mainly bad coping skills and highly impulsive behavior.

I think the innocent person they are referring to is the person that is being used to have the revenge affair with, not the WS. That is how I read it but I could be wrong.