SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Incarnate:

Just want to say that last post was dead on. Feeling anger is healthy, and it's something I have never been able to do well. I am an apologist for everything and every one, have been since I was a girl. Feeling anger is something I cognizantly work on. Your other comments about whether he wants to R are true as well. Unfortunately, for him I think he acted rashly in doing this so early out, and I doubt he is still anywhere close to knowing if he wants to R. This is another way that the situation has become complicated. I have a feeling he is going to get to a place of remorse in the future should R continue to progress.

And, to Buzzed, we are all just humans trying to get through things, I don't condemn you for what you did, but advising others to do this when it hasn't truly helped your situation is baffling. Keep posting, there is a lot of support in this community and will be able to help you navigate all the things ahead.

"It is easier to break up than cheat"

In some cases it isnt, mine for example, the childrens welfare, my wife would have nowhere to go, her parents live on another continent, she would have been financialy screwed.

I could have broken up with her but i did consider the outcome for her and the children.

Hi Hicking, thank you for your kind words however please accept that i have not advised anyone to copy my actions, different strokes for different folks as it were.

This topic comes up over and over. I know initially, after Dday, I wanted revenge really bad. I thought about doing it-seriously thought about it so I completely understand how you talked yourself into it being a good route to take.

I won't judge since I seriously considered it, but for me, its not who I am and I wasn't going to lower my integrity and morals to get revenge. I guess in the end, if I needed revenge that badly, divorce would have been the option I would have taken. I believe very strongly in integrity, honesty and faithfulness. If I stoop to his level, then its me I am betraying more than my WS.

Also, I knew that if I did do it, he would still never feel the level of pain I did because he did it first, he would know it was possible that I would do it to get back at him, it wouldn't blind side him and he would believe he deserved it. I am sure it would have hurt him but not anywhere near the same level or hurt.

Deephurt. Much respect to you for your position on this matter.

My position is different, my WW had of her own volition some weeks before and would have taken the knowledge to the grave.

My RA hurt her far more than her A hurt me as she had more to lose including her home and a very compertable lifestyle.

I felt anger and insult she felt panic and fright.

Dear god i need to check before submitting.

"She had ended her a of her own volition some weeks before i found out"

My RA hurt her far more than her A hurt me as she had more to lose including her home and a very compertable lifestyle.

I felt anger and insult she felt panic and fright.

and your personal integrity is worth more than all that.. but as you say, to each their own. you must be a great guy.

Ignoring the sarcasm nope i am a pretty average guy, i work hard, pay my dues, love my kids beyond anything and am trying many months after the A and RA to reconnect with my wife.

Was my decision to RA the right one? for me it was, no way was i going to do the pick me dance along with begging and pleading i have to much self respect for that.

Buzzy,

Gently, you present yourself as a person to stay away from. You lash out in anger, and you must know that will hurt yourself and the people around you. You hold to double standards, demanding behavior from your W that you won't give to her. You tell us and yourself that your W made you cheat.

Are you the person you want to be?

If not, what are you willing to change?

What work are you willing to do to change?

To heal yourself as a BS, you need to get underneath your anger to your fear, shame, and grief.

To heal yourself as a WS, you need to change yourself from betrayer to good partner.

I'll tell you frankly: if your W asked about the chances for R, I would say that based on your posts, you are not a good candidate for R at this time. You can become one, but you aren't a candidate for R right now.

I recommend finding a good IC, probably one whose style is pretty confrontative - and that's reco whether you D or R.

[This message edited by sisoon at 9:48 AM, November 5th (Tuesday)]

Was my decision to RA the right one? for me it was, no way was i going to do the pick me dance along with begging and pleading i have to much self respect for that.

what does having a RA have to do with playing the pick me dance? In fact, it points to you giving your wife's actions way too much power.

Seconding the IC referral by Sisoon.

Strange you say that i lash out in anger when i am probably to passive or at least was until her A.

As i have said many times i dont regret my RA but strongly regret the vile things i said to her after the discovery of her A.

Since my return from Seville i have not said one unkind word to my wife indeed three weeks later we left our children with my parents and rented a cottage and discussed our future if any, we agreed to try to R. I accepted that i had more work to do than her as she was full of remorse and regrets.

No my affair is at an end for now at least.

Does this mean you and she have left the door open in case you were to continue it?

When I said i "see" my AP i meant just that, if I see her i will smile say hello but that is about the extent of it.

If you were to decide to commit fully to R, would that continue? Does your WW know the identity of your OW?

How long ago was your A?

Her A approx 14 months ago, my RA about 5 weeks later.

My RA was a former friend of my wife.

Will i resume my A very unlikely.

I am fully commited to R but i have some issues that relate to before her A, they were somewhat minor or at least tolerable before not so much now. These can wait for now although we can explore them later, my wife is not aware of these issues so i need to approach them with care.

and am trying many months after the A and RA to reconnect with my wife

How?

Your wife blew up your M.

My RA hurt her far more than her A hurt me

You then added a layer of toxic sludge.

"People who are more vengeful tend to be those who are motivated by power, by authority and by the desire for status," he says. "They don't want to lose face."

In his study, McKee surveyed 150 university students who answered questions about their attitudes toward revenge, authority and tradition, and group inequality. He found that the students whose answers showed a deference to authority and respect for traditions and social dominance, had the most favorable opinions about revenge and retribution.

It is common on SI for these personality types to seek a very showy, outsized level of revenge against either the AP or their wayward. They simply have to. There is no reclaiming their self-esteem without the other person--the AP or wayward--being hurt. Someone else suffering is required because their ego cannot survive the wound (while other personality types can heal themselves through their personal power and autonomy).

It is what it is. But it is also my experience that these same people frequently lack an ability to look hard at themselves and the mess at their feet. I want to be wrong. I want you to talk about lots of IC, reading books, joining websites, journaling, etc. And I hope your wife is doing the same or more.

So what are you and your wife doing to heal this toxic marriage you find yourselves in?

If I stoop to his level, then its me I am betraying more than my WS.

^^^ So much this. This is how I feel. I did betray myself and my children.

It is common on SI for these personality types to seek a very showy, outsized level of revenge against either the AP or their wayward. They simply have to. There is no reclaiming their self-esteem without the other person--the AP or wayward--being hurt. Someone else suffering is required because their ego cannot survive the wound (while other personality types can heal themselves through their personal power and autonomy).

It is what it is. But it is also my experience that these same people frequently lack an ability to look hard at themselves and the mess at their feet. I want to be wrong. I want you to talk about lots of IC, reading books, joining websites, journaling, etc. And I hope your wife is doing the same or more.

So what are you and your wife doing to heal this toxic marriage you find yourselves in?

Excellent post.

Hikingout - I got what you said, but you missed where people stated they wished the roles(feelings) were reversed for selfish reasons(You didn't want the BS to be a WS) due to the feeling of "unfairness/inequality." You seemed to focus on how the WS pain you don't wish on the BS.

This man has already had an RA and doesn’t feel any better. I don’t see your point at all. Sorry.

Hmmm. I can help you understand with some questions to Buzzy.

Now to how Buzzy feels better after his affair.

1) I doubt he questioned his sexual desirability.

2) I doubt he dove inward asking if he deserved his spouse or if she would be better off without him. (Plan B)

3) I doubt he questioned if she thinks about her AP while he sleeps with her.

4) I doubt he would still be angry and call his wife a whore or slut after his RA. (I know he said he did this, did you Buzzy do this after your RA?)

5) I wonder if he has mind movies of his wife cheating.

6) He might even care less about frequency or positions she slept with the AP because he feels he has some of his own.

7) I wonder if he questions whether she is truthful about her affair or not? Because maybe he feels he has his own secrets now and she has her own doubts.

Please respond to those Buzzy. This topic fascinates me.

These are 5 easy things I can see he skipped I wish I had skipped. I know I have more moral integrity than my wife for no RA, but all that does is breed fear in her, pain in me because she isn't my equal in that, and raise so many other issues.

I wonder if he has figured out a way to fix the really really bad affairs?

[This message edited by DoinBettr at 3:48 PM, November 5th (Tuesday)]

i did not go behind her back, i told her when and where it would happen (but not who).

Is your wife aware now of who?

Doinbettr i will happily respond but my wife is sitting opposite me and she thiks i am browsing Audible.

SH please see my response on the other thread, the only other forum i post on is a running one which does not involve a lot of detail. I probably should have stuck to one thread as my timeline is all over the place.

Hikingout - I got what you said, but you missed where people stated they wished the roles(feelings) were reversed for selfish reasons(You didn't want the BS to be a WS) due to the feeling of "unfairness/inequality." You seemed to focus on how the WS pain you don't wish on the BS.

No, the post wasn't about role reversal. It was about being able to take the BS's pain as your own. This was started by a BS in another forum who said if a WS is remorseful they would want to feel the BS's pain without the BS becoming the WS. That post was about remorse of actions, and wanting to take the BS's pain for themselves. Not about revenge affairs in the least, and not exactly about a complete role reversal. Again, I will say I don't know any WS who wishes for a revenge affair. I do know some BS's who say their spouse offered them a "free pass" but how repugnant that was to them. It is always used as an example of how a WS doesn't get it.

Again, if H had decided that, it would definitely have hurt me. But, had he done that it wouldn't have shocked me the way mine did him. It wouldn't have traumatized me the way mine did him. Because I did it in the bubble of what was seemingly a happy marriage, if he had done it I would have at least understood he did it out of pain. People in pain sometimes hurt others. It would not have the same effect, but it would have hurt him yet again. He is a man of integrity, and breaking that by doing something beneath him would have been a pain of it's own. That's why you think I am concentrating on that. Because that is the thing that would have been most lost.

Had he chosen do have an A of his own, then I would consider R so long as he followed the same conditions and worked on himself and examined his own culpability. I definitely would require NC with OW. None of that is an eye for an eye, more I believe that cheating is carried out with more than just an emotional response to something.

[This message edited by hikingout at 4:28 PM, November 5th (Tuesday)]