SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

HO,

I agree that there are a small handful of WS on this site that say sex with their BS was better than sex with their AP but it should be in the dozens or hundreds considering there have been 77,ooo+ people who signed up for this site.

[This message edited by Username123 at 3:15 PM, January 19th (Tuesday)]

Well I have been here for going on 4 years and have talked to I do not know how many WS. It's a lot. I have talked to many, many in private messaging where there are no real fears of what others in the forum might think or say.

In all the time I have been here, I can think of 3 people who said they enjoyed the sex wiht AP more. Of those 3, 1 of them reconsidered their answer later.

There seems to be a common theme for many of them and that was that their AP was there for what they could get and not what they could give. I know of zero WS on this site that have told me they do not deeply regret their affair. I will qualify that and say there are many who stop here and don't stay who I don't know will ever regret it. Oddly enough I would say the count of those are larger in the men column, and I suspected bigger problems/mental illness.

This site really keeps the WS who work on themselves and I don't think you would find even one of us who think any of what we experienced in our affair was worth a shit.

[This message edited by hikingout at 3:16 PM, January 19th (Tuesday)]

HO,

Do you really discuss which sex partner the WS preferred in PMs ? How is this conversation usually initiated ?

I do not ask that question directly. I actually do not find it all that relevant to ask.

After all this time the only people who are ever excited about their AP are fresh out of the affair and haven't done any self evaluation. I don't typically do much private messaging with those folks because they are beyond help until they decide to pull their heads out of their asses. I will talk to them, but only in the public forum.

The way it comes up is this is a very common BS insecurity, understandably. They will ask me how to reassure their BS and they will tell me that information about liking their sex better just in the course of describing their situation.

Back to relevance. What if someone said "No my husband is not my best sexual partner but overall he is the best overall partner that I could dream of". What should I tell them? Does that negate their sincerity over how they love their spouse?

[This message edited by hikingout at 3:32 PM, January 19th (Tuesday)]

Jorge,

Were you married to your wife at the time of your affair? Didn't you say you were 23 at the time of your affair?

I hadn't met her yet Username123. If comparing against my girlfriend I'd say the same thing as my wife's qualities were quite similar to my betrayed girlfriend.

It wasn't better, but different. I know. I know! I sound like a WS. Like I said, when reading the claim from WS on SI, I would immediately think it was a safe word used to protect the expected fall out from it being better.

But truthfully when looking at it through my own eyes, I can't dismiss it as being inauthentic because my experience mirrors those who use those words. Like I said, my AP was naughty and experienced. Plus, I'd framed her to be a certain way and that meant I could be myself with someone who had no future with me.

Whereas my girlfriend was neither naughty, experienced and was wife material. I wasn't comfortable enough with myself to be the hypersexual being that I really and have always suppressed......even to this day. Nonetheless, sex with GF was still as good, as she liked/loved sex a lot which for me is THE standard that leads to it being good.

Poppy704 raised a good point that deserves recognition. Forget the sex for a second and think about the feelings one has in the initial stages of a relationship. The newness distorts one's ability to place it in real perspective. How often have you read here in new beginnings or experienced for yourself or with friends who've been betrayed or leaving an old one relationship for a new one, that says their new significant other is the greatest thing since slice bread.

Their CIRCUMSTANCES are the drivers of what's defining their reality. It's not a good comparison when one relationship is 10-15 days or weeks and the one with the WS OR bs is 10, 15 years or more. Completely different paradigm, yet often compared as if it's one of the same.

There might be an exciting component with the AP that doesn't exist with a long term partner, but the excitement doesn't make it better, just new. The distinction between new or different vs better is often miscalculated and frequently disputed here. The terms are used interchangeably and means different things to different people, most notably, whether one stands on the betrayed side or wayward side.

I've seen the distinctions being made by SI members using compelling examples of in their own right. However differences can still be rooted in what side of the aisle (betrayed or wayward) they stand on. If on the betrayed side, different and new are softer words substituting for "better".

For a wayward it's the word used to defined how it really was in many, if not most instances perhaps. Their are thousands of stories on this site. Somebody had better sex with their AP than with their spouse, but I'm just want to say, I can vouch for WS when they claim it to be different or new, which again is and can be easily confused with being better. It's complicated as hell though and a thin line separates the two and I'm having a little trouble even explaining it.

In my case, the sex truly was different. He was just in it for the sex. Wasn’t emotional, rushed, and he used her to do all of the things either his wife wouldn’t do, or did not want to do with her as he saw her as more virtuous.

My ex did things with him that in a million years I wouldn’t think she wanted. He basically treated her like a common whore. The awful details are in my profile. This was so far from the sex we had. With us she loved to take her time, set the mood with candles, lingerie etc. Truly the sex couldn’t be more different.

The most I got out of her was that it was exciting in the beginning, but after I turned down his business proposal the humiliation of her and I ramped way up. I do think she was honest when she says things got out of hand and it wasn’t fun anymore. Of course that didn’t stop her from going back again and again, so she must have gotten some pleasure from it. Who will ever know. She desperately wanted to reconcile and she knew it would have been the kiss of death if she ever said it was better. A BS will never truly know.

I do think that she looks back at it with disgust. The sad thing for us, was the sex she really loved disappeared after DDay. I could care less about the candles and the mood. The sex became pretty much what she had with him without the humiliation. It was just a release for me. It no longer was making love.

I do disagree with OIN from the first page.

Answer seems pretty obvious as it's included in your question--it must have only been different and not better or the WS would not be trying to recover their M. Trust actions, not words? Then you have your answer. When compared, the BS obviously wins. Anybody denying this obvious truth during R is simply letting their fears take them down the rabbit hole. A WS who is staying and doing the work is proving where they want to be. Accept it.

The fact the WS stays often had nothing to do with the quality of the sex with the AP. Her AP could have been the worlds greatest lover giving her earth quaking orgasams. She might have kept it going as long as she could, but once caught she would have ditched him in a second. I do think she loved me and wouldn’t have wanted to lose me, but she loved her family and life too. She wouldn’t have traded that in for anything. The fact a WS wants to reconcile is not indicative of how good the sex was with her AP in many instances.

I also agree that no WS in their right mind would ever admit to having better sex if they want to save their marriage. But the sex no matter if better, or different, was at least exciting or they wouldn’t have done it. Especially if they went back for more.

[This message edited by waitedwaytoolong at 7:28 PM, January 19th (Tuesday)]

waitedwaytoolong,

"She desperately wanted to reconcile and she knew it would have been the kiss of death if she ever said it was better. A BS will never truly know." I agree with this statement.

"I do think that she looks back at it with disgust. " My wife says the same thing. What I don't understand is how a WS can have sex with an AP for a year in my wife's case then decide later that she looks back at the sex with disgust. Sometimes I believe this and other times I don't.

"I do disagree with OIN from the first page." I also disagree with her.

I think you may have mixed an abbreviations in your following quote:

"The fact the BS* ( should have been WS I think ) stays often had nothing to do with the quality of the sex with the AP. Her AP could have been the worlds greatest lover giving her earth quaking orgasams. She might have kept it up, but once caught she would have ditched him in a second. I do think she loved me and wouldn’t have wanted to lose me, but she loved her family and life too. She wouldn’t have traded that in for anything. The fact a WS wants to reconcile is not indicative of how good the sex was with her AP in many instances."

I completely agree with your quote: "The fact a WS wants to reconcile is not indicative of how good the sex was with her AP in many instances"

[This message edited by Username123 at 7:06 PM, January 19th (Tuesday)]

This site really keeps the WS who work on themselves and I don't think you would find even one of us who think any of what we experienced in our affair was worth a shit.

This is one thing I know, I have had many discussions with my W after her Wednesday IC sessions. I’m not hung up on the sex, it happened, I can’t worry about what was done, I know what sex looks like.

I’m more concerned with how she views the A, her actions, and feelings for the AP. I have asked this for over a year and she is disgusted by it. She doesn’t look on it fondly and she is full of shame and guilt over it. Did she enjoy the sex? Probably, does she hate the memories of it, yes I am convinced she is.

What I don't understand is how a WS can have sex with an AP for a year in my wife's case then decide later that she looks back at the sex with disgust.

Username123, She's probably looking at it more holistically than you are. To her the sex is lumped in with the affair as one, where the cost was so much greater than the return that it's repulsive to comprehend.

It's one year of fun vs another 30 where she wears the stain on her forehead that can never wash away. In 20 years, sitting across the dinner table and she catches you looking at her she's going to wonder, is that a look of disgust or has he triggered from something I said. The toll over time makes her affair an expensive ordeal where she can never quite make entirely right, as what's done is done. The emotional cost of that stain is incalculable.

I nearly paid such a price, as my AP attempted suicide. A 5-6 month sexual affair where I became someone I'd never been before or after, versus being the reason why a human takes there life would have worn on me the rest of my life. In fact even without the suicide attempt, it's a stain on my life. She fell in love with me and I just wanted sex.

I hurt the hell out of her. The pain was so great, she attempted to take her own life. To make matters worse, my GF's dad was cheating on his wife and banging my AP's cousin. So, I had the shame of my GF's dad knowing and witnessing my affair and couldn't say anything to his daughter (my GF) because he was cheating himself. Hard to type that up as it was one of the low points if not THE low point of my life.

I remember in late August of that year after having looked back at the summer, something hit me where I said this isn't who I am or want to be. I can recall staying home on weekends for a period in a kind of self-correction. It all seemed surreal. It started with a chance meeting at a club where my GF's dad and AP casually introduced me to my future AP. Ended a few months later with her suicide attempt. Ugly stuff.

[This message edited by Jorge at 7:54 PM, January 19th (Tuesday)]

My wife says the same thing. What I don't understand is how a WS can have sex with an AP for a year in my wife's case then decide later that she looks back at the sex with disgust. Sometimes I believe this and other times I don't.

It is self preservation 101. Many men, upon hearing that their wives had awesome, mind-blowing, toe curling sex with their lover, would not stick around too long.

And the WW's know this. So rewriting history is in their best interest.

Thus it must be....bad, lackluster, not as good...etc etc. And since many cheaters hold a black belt in lying, how can one ever really know?

Truth is you can't.

ramius,

I believe most WS on this site who have been around a while and done a lot of work would disagree with you. Are you calling them dishonest?

hikingout,

I have thought about your comments about communicating with many WS via PM and stating all but three WS said sex with BH was better than sex with their AP. You need to find a way to get that news out to the BH of SI. It is great news for the BH of SI.

I read all about affairs on many different web sites and books. I also watch Youtube videos and go to therapy looking for little golden nuggets that I actually believe. I think there is so much bullshit out there about affairs but I believe your nugget that almost all W told you sex was better with BH not AP. You don't have any reason to lie about that fact. I pick up those nuggets and take them with me and try to build some kind of foundation for my new life.

hikingout and butforthegrace made some good points. Thanks.

Well, I have stated it here before and not all of my knowledge comes from my pms, I believe most of this has played out in the public forums as well. I tend to be skeptical if a WS comes here and says they didn't enjoy it at all, though I do believe that absolutely could happen in some circumstances. Until they are here a while I am usually inclined to believe what we are hearing is the stories they tell themselves. I tend to start getting more invested when I see they are capable of sharing some hard truths rather than everything being skimmed over, minimized, or things not lining up.

The pain is in the details. So that wound will cause all to ruminate on something (and that something will often move on to being something else as grief is not linear).

I feel the best news really comes from Chamomile Tea: SHE IS RIGHT! You do have more control over your healing than your WS has. Yes, we have to provide the safe and loving environment, we have to be consistent and reliable, and do our work. But, in the end, we don't really heal you, it happens through your own processing, on your timeline, and in your terms. I will reiterate that I think 2 years out is still so early and this is all very normal. However, what she says is very wise and if taken in rather than feeling defensive about it may make a difference in your path.

I saw you tell Jimmy that you felt he should get some help. You can look at him objectively and know that he doesn't deserve to be in this pain and that he should do anything he can to get out of it. I would 100% recommend you take your own advice. I truly believe anyone can benefit from therapy, it's a great tool to process but also to learn new skills that will help you to cope better.

WWTL, I understand your points, but (correct me if I'm wrong) I think your hurdles didn't derive from your belief about your WW's subjective view of the quality of the sex she had with her AP, but rather the specific details of what she did. The way she willingly and repeatedly enabled the AP to direct open disrespect toward you (behind your back). The brio that she threw into the sexual part of the A. The concentration of sexual acts with the AP that she wasn't as forthcoming with in the marriage bed. In other words, the sum of her actions was your hurdle.

My WW said the exact same thing. "it was different"

Well I believe actions speak louder than words. All during our marriage, all I ever heard was how I married the wrong person and she just wasn't into sex that much. However with him, she would dress herself up, deliver herself to him on the receipt of a smilely face on her phone at least 3 or 4 times a week for months until I finally caught her.

He basically had more sex with her in 3 months than I had in probably 3 years.

with me, she is Sister Theresa but with him she was a whore on fire.

so forgive me if I don't believe her when she now says sex with him was not better than what we have.

so forgive me if I don't believe her when she now says sex with him was not better than what we have.

Let me ask you this: Whose fault is it the sex is not better? Is it all your fault?

I am going to say NOPE! I feel pretty sure that if the person who is not happy with the sex doesn't express what they want to be different, then they are going to get the sex they don't want.

And, let me ask you this: Does this have to be a permanent thing? Meaning, let's say worst case scenario, it was the best sex of her life so far (I have other suspicions) Then are you served a life sentence of never being the best sex ever?

I said earlier that often the reason WS try harder with the AP is they are unattainable. We turn around and try hard with the BS who is also now unattainable. Is there a pattern there that could be removed? In many ways I would hope so because I would hate for "the best sex of my life" to be because I am fucked up in the head and the person has to be unattainble. I would much rather have the best sex of my life because I truly love the person I am with, and I am invested in making that relationship the best it can possibly be.

I use that because the reason affair sex is enjoyable is based on circumstances that would never be replicated in a real relationship. Affairs are based on lies, secrecy, insecurity, addiction, lack of integrity, impossible situations, "winning" against the other spouse. These are truly the most fucked up things you could base a sexual relationship on.

He basically had more sex with her in 3 months than I had in probably 3 years.

LawDog. I think you've been here on SI for like 6 years. Was your Dday back in 2014? Has the sex im the marriage improved since then?

Butforthegrace

nope, not at all. maybe once a month if lucky., She has gained weight since then and now all I hear is she doesn't like the way she looks. It's almost like she is trying ot dull herself up as she doesn't trust herself. No makeup, sweat shirts, sweat pants etc. anytime I say anything hse keeps saying she is not happy with the way she looks. And when I say then do something about it, she says she is going to but then I get hit with the , she's happy, we're happy so what does it matter. You don't know how many times I wanted to say, oh yea, I get it, he gets the perfect , well defined you who wouldn't eat anything the whole time , and I get the I don't care how I look version. But , again, I bite my tongue.

hikingout

what gets me is that, I have always tried to be adventurous in order to keep things fresh. She would always refuse. All I ever heard was, she wasn't that type. Even with her affair, all she would say is that it was boring missionary sex, yet he was posting on face book how she would blow him and what a screamer she was. I quit asking for answers because she never gives them and it only starts a fight. I'm sick of it. I guess this is my sentence that I have to live out til I die.